INDIAN MIG 21 BISON CRASHES

[Gessler]

Actually its you who needs to make your mind of what indigenous means cuz a retired admiral and a retired air chief marshall of India dont believe your concept of indigenous as i have posted before and will dare to show to you again ...

These remind me of the so-called IA officers who claim that Arjun's ground pressure will make it sink in sands while everyone knows Arjun's ground pressure is less than that of T-90 or even T-72.

DRDO chief himself stated that LCA is 65% (not70%)
Indian, do these retired officers know more about they haven't inducted or flown than the chief of the company that builds it?

And mind when these guys retired or the cues from what times they're using to publish nonsense? Almost all retired officers are offered huge sums to destabilise indigenous efforts and write articles in various defence magazines - ive known a few of them myself.

Only a fool and ill-informed idiot would claim that Tejas' FBW is not Indian.

SK Sareen served as ACM at a time when LCA hadn't even flown! Now this sir, being a retired officer no longer serving the IAF, has went in and analysed every bit and component of LCA and began writing articles in def mags regarding it!, and is privy to more info about LCA than the currently-serving DRDO chief!

 

[abdulbarijan]

These remind me of the so-called IA officers who claim that Arjun's ground pressure will make it sink in sands while everyone knows Arjun's ground pressure is less than that of T-90 or even T-72.

DRDO chief himself stated that LCA is 65% (not70%)
Indian, do these retired officers know more about they haven't inducted or flown than the chief of the company that builds it?

And mind when these guys retired or the cues from what times they're using to publish nonsense? Almost all retired officers are offered huge sums to destabilise indigenous efforts and write articles in various defence magazines - ive known a few of them myself.



Only a fool and ill-informed idiot would claim that Tejas' FBW is not Indian.

SK Sareen served as ACM at a time when LCA hadn't even flown! Now this sir, being a retired officer no longer serving the IAF, has went in and analysed every bit and component of LCA and began writing articles in def mags regarding it!, and is privy to more info about LCA than the currently-serving DRDO chief!

Ahan, so you know more than retired air chief's and admirals --- thanks, you just proved everyone of your points right

My arguement, friend, was based on the serving DRDO Chief's claim, not mine

While you're arguement is based on a retired ACM's magazine article, a man
who was sitting in house watching TV when LCA made its first flight.

Indeed, the DRDO chief specifically defined what "indigenous" is so that LCA could fit in to it and then you quoted him .. good to know, just view the last page with multiple references all from INDIAN and NEUTRAL sources saying the exact opposite..

 

[Gessler]

Ahan, so you know more than retired air chief's and admirals --- thanks, you just proved everyone of your points right

My arguement, friend, was based on the serving DRDO Chief's claim, not mine

While you're arguement is based on a retired ACM's magazine article, a man
who was sitting in house watching TV when LCA made its first flight.

 

[Windjammer]

 

[Gessler]

And who made this video? barijan himself!

@ Abdulbarijan

Have you tried posting a new video on YT titled "how indigenous is JF-17 Thunder" ?? I think
you must think of your "own" planes before ranting about others'. what do you say?

 

[mylovepakistan]

And who made this video? barijan himself!

@ Abdulbarijan

Have you tried posting a new video on YT titled "how indigenous is JF-17 Thunder" ?? I think
you must think of your "own" planes before ranting about others'. what do you say?

hey,we never claimed that jf 17 was indigenous...UNLIKE you guys

 

[abdulbarijan]

And who made this video? barijan himself!

@ Abdulbarijan

Have you tried posting a new video on YT titled "how indigenous is JF-17 Thunder" ?? I think
you must think of your "own" planes before ranting about others'. what do you say?

Been there done that ..........

[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPI7vnnnvmY[/video]

All the info is available on PAC website, plus if you check out the info pool and few of think tank's posts you will find all the material ..

And I believe you're arguements in the video about indigenation about LCA is based again
on the same comments by armchair general sitting in his house writing criticising articles
for time-pass while DRDO Chief (the one who really supervises on integration of LCA's components)
has made it clear than LCA is 65% Indian.

Tejas also fulfills the "definition" of indigeous that you talked of above.

Just like DRDO first claimed LCA is 70% indigenous, only we had some whistle blowers and even now the total indigenous stuff per you hasn't reached the first mark that DRDO and HAL proudly claimed. It all depends on your definition of indigenous,you define 50 % + stuff as indigenous, i may argue and say 80% of indigenous equipment is necessary as it is written no where and cant be argued with ...

You will try to make a situation which is favorable to u and I will retaliate using the same tactics.

 

[Gessler]

hey,we never claimed that jf 17 was indigenous...UNLIKE you guys

And I believe you're arguements in the video about indigenation about LCA is based again
on the same comments by armchair general sitting in his house writing criticising articles
for time-pass while DRDO Chief (the one who really supervises on integration of LCA's components)
has made it clear than LCA is 65% Indian.

Tejas also fulfills the "definition" of indigeous that you talked of above.

 

[mylovepakistan]

And I believe you're arguements in the video about indigenation about LCA is based again
on the same comments by armchair general sitting in his house writing criticising articles
for time-pass while DRDO Chief (the one who really supervises on integration of LCA's components)
has made it clear than LCA is 65% Indian.

Tejas also fulfills the "definition" of indigeous that you talked of above.

alright best of luck with your '65%' indigenous tejas...
i hope soon it becomes worthy enough of replacing your old MIG-21 fleet...

period...

 

[Gessler]

Been there done that ..........

[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPI7vnnnvmY[/video]

All the info is available on PAC website, plus if you check out the info pool and few of think tank's posts you will find all the material ..



Just like DRDO first claimed LCA is 70% indigenous, only we had some whistle blowers and even now the total indigenous stuff per you hasn't reached the first mark that DRDO and HAL proudly claimed. It all depends on your definition of indigenous,you define 50 % + stuff as indigenous, i may argue and say 80% of indigenous equipment is necessary as it is written no where and cant be argued with ...

You will try to make a situation which is favorable to u and I will retaliate using the same tactics.

Ohhh...stop posting extensions for existing posts man, its confusing!

DRDO Cheif (currently serving one) has said LCA is 65% indigenous, but LCA is a still in development
project and he also said it would be atleast 75% Indian by the time FOC is achieved. I'll stick to the
former for now.

I have made it clear myself in prveious posts - Indigenous fighter means 1) in-house conceptualisation,
design study etc. and project management & 2) Indigenously-produced stuff forming the majority of
components in the said fighter.

The point 1) is more important than 2) becasue 2 keeps changing all the time unlike 1.

alright best of luck with your '65%' indigenous tejas...
i hope soon it becomes worthy enough of replacing your old MIG-21 fleet...

period...

Oh yeah? well thanks.

I hope the foreign deals are also materialised soon - there are lots of obsolete jets
that need to be replaced, period.

 

[karan.1970]

And who made this video? barijan himself!

@ Abdulbarijan

Have you tried posting a new video on YT titled "how indigenous is JF-17 Thunder" ?? I think
you must think of your "own" planes before ranting about others'. what do you say?

Err.. Pakistan does not claim JF 17 to be indigenous. Their target itself is to move to a 50 % local production (just manufacturing) by 2015. They do claim to have given the requirements and station a bunch of Pakistani engineers in China while the design process was going on.. So wrong comparison.

 

[bloo]

Quoting lines from old articles won't change the truth, no matter how much you want it to.
Tejas was in its prototype stage when these materials were used, however now is a totally different story.

Swadeshi LCA has US engine, Israeli, Swedish avionics, Italian wings

Alloys for Tejas-Mishra Dhatu Nigam Limited (MIDHANI)
MIDHANI - Superalloys

Composites-Tata's Advanced Materials Ltd (TAML)
Livefist: State Agency Busy, Private Industry To Build Composites For Production LCA Tejas

Majority of the area of the airframe is composites and the composites are made by TAML so think it out for yourself if only 30% of the Tejas airframe is indigenous?
Tejas - Technology - Composite Materials

ADA Tejas - program supplier guide

ejection seats-Armament Research and Development Establishment
DRDO


Only the HMDS system is provided by Elbit the HUD is done by CSIO, Chandigarh.
Mission Computer-The hardware unit development was done by ASIEO, Bangalore and software design & development by ADA.
Control & Coding Unit (CCU)-The hardware is developed by RCI, Hyderabad and software by ADA
Display Processors (DP) of LRUs in the Tejas-ADE, Bangalore
Mission Preparation & Data Retrieval Unit (MPRU)-LRDE, Bangalore
And most of the USMS Electronic Units also done by DRDO subsidiaries
http://www.lca-tejas.org/avionics.html

1994 | 1863 | Flight Archive

And your link also says this

"China has a long-term requirement to replace its Xian J-7 (MiG-21) and Shenyang J-6 (MiG-19) in the attack role, with the LCA providing a potentially attractive option."

This really discredits Tejas

rediff.com: Admiral J G Nadkarni (retd) on the sad tale of the Light Combat Aircraft

Open Architecture Computer (OAC)-ADA
Multi Mode Radar-Jointly developed as an Indian – Israeli venture
Tejas - Technology

Lets skip every thing even today, the IAF claims that the complete home grown and total indigenous aircraft is only 60% indigenous......
LCA Tejas flies into IAF fleet - Hindustan Times

As per Dr.V K Saraswat Tejas is 65% indigenous
LCA Tejas - Birth of Indian Fighter Aircraft

Thanks for the laugh, such incompetence that we are having batch I completely operational adding further claws to it in a poor economic state, while India having US, France, Israel and Russia at its back door is 17 years late already and hasn't put 1 fighter in active duty ....

remarkable competence of India i must say

Laughing at something only you understand is just plain foolishness, let us not forget that JF-17 has even lesser Pakistani input than what India has on the Su-30MKI.

The main reason for the long development process of Tejas is the sanctions imposed by US especially the one in 1998Tejas was dependent mostly on Lockheed Martin's equipment, after the nuclear tests US govt. forced lockheed to terminate the Tejas program and every data on wind tunnel designs, simulators et cetra were withheld and not allowed to take back to India, thus DRDO had to start anew.

According to Dr. V.K. Saraswat sanctions were in actuality never removed since 1988, the window for development of Tejas opened only in 2005.
Walk The Talk with DRDO chief VK Saraswat Video: NDTV.com
9:20 onwards
Thus despite of the help that DRDO recieved, it had more adversity in the Tejas development.
Unlike JF-17 which doesn't even have a quarter of Pakistani Input, the Chinese did all the work for you.

No sunny boy, the reality is you cant face the music, when you see your own air marshal level officials exposing the truth to you, however lets for one second assume LCA Tejas is totally and completely indigenous .....

DOES THAT CHANGE THE FACT IT STILL HAS ALOT OF TIME TO GO BEFORE ITS PUT INTO SERVICE EVEN AS PER OFFICIAL PLANS (2015)
while the incompetent Pakistanis would be by then improving and continuously building on their first experience and looking at advanced versions of the basic model ... even in the times where pakistan's economy is in its worst state ever

And no one has ever said that "Tejas is totally and completely indigenous", you are the only one who is trolling so.
And how far has JFT evolved into Block-2?
Wasn't the JFT Block-2 to be inducted in mid 2012?
It seems like its another way round, you are the one who's itching coz your bubble's bursting.
And no matter what you say your most amazing JFT is still not inducted in PLAAF.

 

[Windjammer]

Err.. Pakistan does not claim JF 17 to be indigenous. Their target itself is to move to a 50 % local production (just manufacturing) by 2015. They do claim to have given the requirements and station a bunch of Pakistani engineers in China while the design process was going on.. So wrong comparison.

It's like a Fish bone stuck in the throat....you can neither swallow it or spit it out.
The fact that only PAF has so far inducted it should suffice to put a lid on what role did Pakistan or rather PAF played in the JFT project. Since it has been openly said that it's a joint venture, hence we don't need people reminding us of it's authenticity, however it's a different case that our neighbour has to be repeatedly clipped around the ear in a vain effort to knock some sense for being in denial..... more so by the home crowd.

rediff.com: Admiral J G Nadkarni (retd) on the sad tale of the Light Combat Aircraft

 

[bloo]

Been there done that ..........

[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPI7vnnnvmY[/video]

Oh wow a video of u claiming quite a few stuff which now makes the JFT a significantly Pakistani jet

 

[Windjammer]

And no matter what you say your most amazing JFT is still not inducted in PLAAF.

Ignoring the rest of banter, coming to the red fonts....the JF-17 was designed to PAF specifications and requirements, the PLAAF are working on their own requirement version......going by your argument, until India inducts them, there has been no launch customer for the Rafale except the French themselves......what does that tell us. !! ??