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India/Russia Working on Stealth for SU30MKI

Stealth for SU30 :hitwall::hitwall::hitwall:

Let me add to your knowledge RCS of SU30 is much more than JF-17 it means SU30 is much more visible on radar than JF-17.
remember..americans told you same after red flag.
Ram coating which indian geniouses are applying today on their SU30 is a copy from JF-17 development.
PAKFA joint contract with russia is also a lesson learned from JF-17 development.
Their is a long list but lets keep limited to the discussion so far.

You missed to mention F-22.
 
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Yes indeed..... but we need to do something about those 2 crashes yar; can't happen again. :)

Better improvements means no aircraft in PAF and China's inventory match the MKI. :yahoo:

Air forces no longer match aircraft for aircraft because it is an expensive proposition. What you do see happening is multirole aircraft being fielded with give or take similar overall performances and greater investment in force multiplier capabilities that exceed the performances afforded by individual fighter aircraft. As such no single system fielded by the IAF can change the overall equation either on the sub-continent or in the Sino-Indian context.

Counting on individual fighters to dominate is a thing of the past given that all 4-4.5 generation aircraft field similar capabilities and in the situations we are concerned with, would be backed up by fairly capable support platforms.
 
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Russians start to get careless and following bad examples by declaring the existence of a weapon before its working.:disagree:

I think the only intelligent people are Chinese. Russian and Indians have no brains at all. By the way what do you do, writing advice columns.
 
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I think the only intelligent people are Chinese. Russian and Indians have no brains at all. By the way what do you do, writing advice columns.



Sorry for the interruption, I also think that India should maintain some secrecy in defense projects.
 
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Russians start to get careless and following bad examples by declaring the existence of a weapon before its working.:disagree:

Yupz thats why world still buys Russian weapons.BTW can you please enlighten us about the world class Aircrafts of China bought by a rich nations like middle east or any other country who is rich and has several options??
 
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i see stupid people talking about RCS of MKI great news so what if RCS is big what will you do if you are able to view the aircraft

take this scenerio an MKI runs into your JF-17 great you have seen mki on your radar because it has big rcs so what ? even before you could see the mki radar will detect your presence and TWO shots of R-77 fired f-rom BVR range will do the job for the jf-17 for jf-17 you need to get closer to the target to take a shot because although you can see the mki in the radar you are not able to fire and paint it from a greater range
now dont talk about the US they have technology to overcome the MKI if you apply this or compare to pakistans technology then you are living in a fools paradise.

the RCS talk is bulshit can you use the larger radar signature of the MKI to your advantage nothing you still cant
also when the mki radar will be upgraded to AESA it wont need to maneveour the fired bvr missiled mid-flight as now with a pesa radar


and yes PAKFA name is copied LOL F-R-OM pakistan
dude do you even know when the name came it was a SOVIET NAME i guess you were not born by then when PAKFA AND PAKDA came into being
 
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I agree with you MODerator Blain

No individual Fighter can dominate in South Asian context.

But one Air force can dominate if its TOTAL AIR ASSETS are generally superior in quality or quantity or BOTH in most cases.

For example.

If IAF fields 50% more planes overall.
400% more 4th gen fighters
Carries 3 x as many BVR missles in its arsenal
4 times as many strike weapons
4 x as many SAM missles
As better technology in terms of jammers & electroincs
And in my opinion far more resources in terms of $$$ fuel and strategic depth

And better REAL TIME INTELLGENCE thanks to green pine radars/ Awacs & geo stationary SATALLITES

They can dominate a war.

IMO air strength is much more than just SU30MKI versis F16/52.

its all these very important factors above
 
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i see stupid people talking about RCS of MKI great news so what if RCS is big what will you do if you are able to view the aircraft take this scenerio an MKI runs into your JF-17 great you have seen mki on your radar because it has big rcs so what ? even before you could see the mki radar will detect your presence and TWO shots of R-77 fired f-rom BVR range will do the job for the jf-17 for jf-17 you need to get closer to the target to take a shot because although you can see the mki in the radar you are not able to fire and paint it from a greater range
now dont talk about the US they have technology to overcome the MKI if you apply this or compare to pakistans technology then you are living in a fools paradise.

Try firing the two R-77s and homing them in without difficulty. My friend BVR engagements are difficult as it is against non-evasive, non-ECM protected targets and here the assumption is that you let lose two R-77s and that is the end of the other side. What do you think the other side will be doing when you fire off the R-77s? What technology do you need aside from effective jamming equipment and good anti-BVR tactics and training to counter the threat? Do you think the MKIs are immune to extensive jamming from Pakistan's EW platforms? What you do not know about makes little sense to comment about. So lets leave the EW and ECM capabilities discussion at that. Absolute ranges of R-77 etc. is just childish talk because you really have no idea as to how true or valid the homing is when you are operating in dense ECM environments.


the RCS talk is bulshit can you use the larger radar signature of the MKI to your advantage nothing you still cant
also when the mki radar will be upgraded to AESA it wont need to maneveour the fired bvr missiled mid-flight as now with a pesa radar

This whole thread is BS. A pig is a pig regardless of the lipstick you put on it.
Lets leave out the *when the MKI radar* talk for now. Right now the radar is limited. Even AESA is not fully immune to jamming. It tends to perform better under jamming conditions in comparison to PD and PESA radars, but limitations still exist.
 
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blain i truely understand the meaning of what you are saying and my way of saying that -r-77 will be enough is not to signify that it will be IT
i made a simplified scenerio just to make one point that the large RCS talk is not of much significance obviously you will know more being from a military background and obviously there are means to counter the effect
the only point i was talking about was the RCS part
i endorse your view that a single fighter will not dominate the other but regading the capabilities of the flanker as a nonsense is just as baseless as claiming that the name PAKFA was taken from pakistan.

dont you think disregarding a capable platform like the franker just because it has a larger RCS is premature and non-sense
since you have made out that the whole thread is BS and of no quality i have nothing to say but agree with you
 
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I agree with you MODerator Blain

No individual Fighter can dominate in South Asian context.

But one Air force can dominate if its TOTAL AIR ASSETS are generally superior in quality or quantity or BOTH in most cases.

For example.

If IAF fields 50% more planes overall.
400% more 4th gen fighters
Carries 3 x as many BVR missles in its arsenal
4 times as many strike weapons
4 x as many SAM missles
As better technology in terms of jammers & electroincs
And in my opinion far more resources in terms of $$$ fuel and strategic depth

And better REAL TIME INTELLGENCE thanks to green pine radars/ Awacs & geo stationary SATALLITES

They can dominate a war.

IMO air strength is much more than just SU30MKI versis F16/52.

its all these very important factors above

The logic is correct, however the reality is different. Your assumptions are based on only what you know IAF to have. Quantity is something that has been at play in the sub-continent in all of the past wars and for various reasons has not been able to influence the outcome much. Quality is definitely an issue but it is no longer a one-sided equation. Both sides are gaining in quality as well.

BVR is a topic that has been discussed and the answer is that PAF is a force in transition right now. Many of the limitations pertaining to BVR and 4th generation will not even apply in the year 2010.

IAF superiority in Strike weapons? How so?

Same with jammers and ECM equipment..how so?
And in my opinion far more resources in terms of $$$ fuel and strategic depth

Again no different than in the past and the results of the air war are nothing spectacular for the IAF.
 
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Blain

Both IAF & PAF don,t have records of spectacular use of AIR POWER to win any major conflict. be it 65 or 71.

Certainly nothing like Israeli record against Arabs in 6 day war in 1967 or the bekaa Valley victory of 82 kills to 1 or 2 arab kills.

Therefore i never ever listen to the usua rehetric of PAF pilots best in the world this and that. ESP SINCE the average PAF pilot is yet to fire a BVR missle even in training, stil flying 90% second gen fighters.

What i will argue is this/

PAF has been chasing india.s tail with regards to modernisation since the 1990s
India is constantly moving the goalposts

First with BVR , su30mki AND Phalcon Aawcs.

PAF has answered the BVR threat 500 amraams and the Awacs with SAAB.

BUT EVEN TODAY the PAFs 10 OR SO jf17 Thunders will not last long against 100-110 SU30mki..

As for future well its simple if your neighbour spends 5 or 6 times wat you do for 10 years " theres only ever going to be one winner"

PAFs will not be able to live with INDIA,s massive military spending

SU30MKI or Phalcon is just the start i fear of a 10 year plan that will see huge $$$ invstment on india,s military power
 
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Blain

Both IAF & PAF don,t have records of spectacular use of AIR POWER to win any major conflict. be it 65 or 71.

Certainly nothing like Israeli record against Arabs in 6 day war in 1967 or the bekaa Valley victory of 82 kills to 1 or 2 arab kills.

Therefore i never ever listen to the usua rehetric of PAF pilots best in the world this and that. ESP SINCE the average PAF pilot is yet to fire a BVR missle even in training, stil flying 90% second gen fighters.

The difference is that even if our kill ratios are not like those of Israelis, we faced a much bigger adversary to a draw. This in itself is not an easy feat to achieve.

What i will argue is this/

PAF has been chasing india.s tail with regards to modernisation since the 1990s
India is constantly moving the goalposts

First with BVR , su30mki AND Phalcon Aawcs.

PAF has answered the BVR threat 500 amraams and the Awacs with SAAB.

BUT EVEN TODAY the PAFs 10 OR SO jf17 Thunders will not last long against 100-110 SU30mki..

I think you know that 10 or so JF-17s is not the total number planned. If IAF and India decide that they want to take advantage of the current imbalance in the air, they can try, I think the path of escalation is clear for Pakistan because Pakistan will not allow India the ability to carry out offensive operations in the air with impunity without significantly escalating the whole affair.

Acquisitions are a matter of timing. Suppliers were available to IAF so they bought certain capabilities first. PAF is catching up now. 1 or 500 AMRAAMs do not make a difference. What does make a difference is that IAF has to cater to a threat of a BVR equipped Air Force. That changes a lot of things.

If you want to talk about today, you will not launch a war because the rungs to full scale escalation are that much fewer because of Pakistan's inability to conventionally equip herself in the 90s. So there are other calculations at play which help Pakistan's case. While upgradation is a never ending process, it happens in cycles (its a global phenomena). India is in the middle of her cycle, Pakistan is starting on it. India will not keep on spending money and buying new toys forever. Pakistan will make sure that we get what we need to stick with our goals of minimum deterrence and also to ensure that our capabilities are able to counter the envisaged threats.

As for future well its simple if your neighbour spends 5 or 6 times wat you do for 10 years " theres only ever going to be one winner"

PAFs will not be able to live with INDIA,s massive military spending

SU30MKI or Phalcon is just the start i fear of a 10 year plan that will see huge $$$ invstment on india,s military power


Huge spending does not always win the day. Soviets were outspending the NATO and US by at least 20 percentage points throughout the 60s, 70s and 80s. Yet the US and NATO had enough deterrence in place to hold the Warsaw Pact to a draw during the 3 decades. The current situation is no different between Pakistan and India. Pakistan will always ensure that we have enough capacity in place to make a short war very difficult for India. Pakistan's tight fiscal condition will not remain the same forever so the assumption about not being able to keep up with our deterrence is fairly flawed.

Pakistan does not have any ambitious global plans. However what Pakistan is spending on and will be spending on will ensure that Pakistan is adequately defended.

Lastly, on the BVR issue. Most of the Pakistani pilots have not fired a BVR AAM, just the same as 99% of the IAF pilots. What you know is theoretical based on the performance envelopes documented by the manufacturers and you base your tactics around that. PAF is no different here because we do the same with the SD-10 and AIM-120 now. We ordered 10 training rounds back in 2005 for the AIM-120s. We started running operator level BVR courses back in 1986 once the VVS (Soviets) introduced the Fulcrum in Afghanistan. So to assume that BVR employment awareness in the PAF does not exist is a folly. The platforms are limited, yet the number will grow greatly in the next year or two.
 
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Blackblood.

Its not rocket science wat is happening with mki

PAK FA tech is clearly finding its way into SU30MKI

just like

F22/JSF tech went into F15 silent eagle recently to kane the F15 RCS far more stealthy

This is eaxctly the same.

IT JUST MAKES IAF 230 SU30MKI even more lethel post 2014..

IMO if the smartskin upgrade works and the russian Aesa IS AS GOD AS THE RUSSIANS claim MKI will be on par with the euro canards/su35
 
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