India Responds to China Navy

[lcloo]

India's projects of infra and other welfare don't suffer basically from lack of funds but because of sluggish implementation and rampant corruption....India placed $500bil for infra in 2007-2012 of which only 340$ has been spent till now and India is struggling to find projects to spend rest$160 billion...now India will spend $1000 billion between 2012-2017 during which India will povide 24*7 electriicty to its every household ....reorganized freight system and port system for faster movements.....adult literacy to reach 85% thorugh its adult literacy program already underway...construction of sanitation and sewage infra and most imp. STPs and Renewable Clean Enrgy in which India already has shown overwhelming results!!!creation of more jobs in high paying sectors of advanced technologies are other goals !!!

That is actually a lot of money to be used. But if you stayed outside India, you will know the the perception of foreigners on ordinary people of India will not to be your liking.

It seem like the gap between the poor and rich is very large. BTW how large is the meddle income group? These people should be politically the most influencial people.

I can understand the emotion of Indians regarding the 1962 war, well hopefully both side can mend the ties.

 

[siegecrossbow]

More China threat fuel from the hawks.

Unlike China, India has one aircraft carrier that is already in service and purchased numerous high tech nuclear submarines from Russia. You never hear the Chinese complaining about the Indian threat though.

 

[IBRIS]

More China threat fuel from the hawks.

Unlike China, India has one aircraft carrier that is already in service and purchased numerous high tech nuclear submarines from Russia. You never hear the Chinese complaining about the Indian threat though.

Thats because we haven't fulfilled our own circle yet. As soon as few more carriers are inducted. Watch how China will complain, for example Chinese objections to any development bank loan for projects throughout the region is enough for any smarta$$ to say why would you make such a cheap move. regardless of chinese opposing everything, we are still moving in the right direction.

 

[Brotherhood]

Firstly, we r worried because China has stabbed us in the back out of the blue. Nehru was lax about China and we paid when the chinese invaded in 62. We dont want to repeat the mistake thats all.

Secondly, India's expenditure on defence is 2% GDP, much less than pakistan or china. the rest of it goes on infrastructure and the poor.

Here we have something the government owes us

ACCOUNTABILITY and RIGHT TO INFORMATION ACT

I dont think u will understand this since u have never experienced it.

Better interpretation;

(1) You are still haunting by the nightmare of 1962 resulted from your "Forward policy", its always easier to blame your shameful defeat with excuses.
In 1959, India initiated a forward policy of sending
Indian troops and border patrols into disputed areas. This
program created both skirmishes and deteriorating relations
between India and China. The 1961 Indian invasion of Portu-
gese Goa further alarmed Chinese officials in Peking.
The China-India Border War
(2) Well, why not mention the pathetic % of GDP "Public health-care" spent which resulted in 5000babies die daily in India?
The government continues to spend only 0.9% on public health.
This is less than some of the sub-Saharan African countries, a World Health Organization (WHO) study of 2007-08 has revealed
India ranks 171 out of 175 in public health spending, says WHO study - India - The Times of India

Did you know what is "Henderson report" why GOI still refused to disclose after 48 years? Oh well, i don't think you want to know.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Thats because we haven't fulfilled our own circle yet. As soon as few more carriers are inducted. Watch how China will complain, for example Chinese objections to any development bank loan for projects throughout the region is enough for any smarta$$ to say why would you make such a cheap move. regardless of chinese opposing everything, we are still moving in the right direction.

I've kept my tone civil, why the trash talking?

When India purchased the Su-30 MKI, which was far superior to the MKK and MK2 that China possessed, China said nothing. I only recall seeing some Indian media (not representative of most Indian people) jumping up and down and some hawks on this board getting very excited when they received news that the Russians are gonna stop providing RD-93s for the JF-17.

Many hawks on this forum believe that the JF-17 is just a cheap, no good, lowend plane that would be mere targets for the MIG-29 and Su-30 MKI. Why are you guys so gleeful about the fake news that the Russians are going to stop providing the engines?

Give me one Chinese source that China has been threatened by Indian military buildup for the last 20 years and I'll take back everything I said.

 

[justanobserver]

That is actually a lot of money to be used. But if you stayed outside India, you will know the the perception of foreigners on ordinary people of India will not to be your liking.

Frankly Indians in general don't care, when we launched Chandrayaan-I , the world started with the usual "slumdog country trying to get to the moon har har, money can be spent on tackling poverty *elitish snigger* "

Little did they know that ISRO ( Indian space agency ) is actually a profit making organization and the cost of this project was just $ 80 million !

It seem like the gap between the poor and rich is very large. BTW how large is the meddle income group? These people should be politically the most influencial people.

GINI index: India .35, China .40 (same as America).

According to recent estimates the Indian middle class is ~300million

Unlike China, India has one aircraft carrier that is already in service and purchased numerous high tech nuclear submarines from Russia.

INS Viraat, our lone aircraft carrier was commissioned in the 1960s!

Numerous high tech subs from Russia ! You got to be kidding me ! All we've done is lease a Russian sub for a period of 10 years, that's it.

Currently we have one indigenous nuclear sub which is still in trials.

You guys have ~12 subs of the nuclear variety !

Why is China doing this 'string of pearls' in the Indian Ocean region? How would you like it if we tried to do something similar in the South China sea ?

 

[gubbi]

China's business lifeline is the shipping lane through the Indian Ocean Region and the Malacca straits, both areas historically and coincidentally controlled by IN and USN.

To ensure the viability of this particular lane China refuses to believe that IOR is ruled by IN and USN and wants a huge piece of the pie! Natural business greed! Thats why we have the "string of pearls". They have their own business interests to take care, and so do we - ours including strategic and security concerns. PLAN is acquiring surface combatants at an alarming rate which worries IN.

China has basically been a brown water navy overshadowed by the Japanese navy and till now hasn't a true blue water capability unlike IN. IN has been operating an aircraft carrier for the last 50+ years and through that experience gained, it can very well manage to deploy two or more carriers at a time. China does not have the capability and coupled to the fact that it does not have a true blue water navy, the learning curve is too great to be a threat in the near future. That is the window IN is looking at. With fast tracking acquisitions and making the most of our 'natural aircraft carrier' in the Andaman and Nicobar islands, IN is making sure that it retains the largest piece of the IOR pie. Its our backyard and unfriendly, hostile outsiders are not allowed.

 

[IBRIS]

Give me one Chinese source that China has been threatened by Indian military buildup for the last 20 years and I'll take back everything I said.

Chinese objections are enough to make one think, it doesn't have to be only military threat. string of pearls, rings a bell.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Chinese objections are enough to make one think, it doesn't have to be only military threat. string of pearls, rings a bell.

I asked for Chinese sources, thank you very much. Prior to coming this forum I didn't even hear about the string of pearls (in case you say that I am a brainwashed Chinese I can tell you that I've lived in the United States for 11 years and am free to access any news I want, Western or otherwise). However I am glad that you at least made the concession that the Chinese threat is not military but economical. Ok. Can you explain why India has to combat China's nonmilitary threat by building up her military?

 

[gubbi]

Can you explain why India has to combat China's nonmilitary threat by building up her military?

Read what I posted. China's 'threat' is not only military but also economic and business related. Its a competition.

 

[Brotherhood]

No more chest thumping BS please,
Ask yourself a honest question, do you think India can beat China in a war now? or will you India got the gut to cut off all those supply lines etc?
May be your navy chief has the answer;

India can't match China's military force: Navy Chief

New Delhi: Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Sureesh Mehta has set off a storm by saying India cannot match China military force. Is it a warning from India's military that the government needs to hear?

"In military terms, both conventional and non-conventional, we neither have the capability nor the intention to match China force for force," said Admiral Sureesh Mehta.

For a nuclear-armed military representing the interests of a billion-plus people, the lack of confidence is quite striking. India's military leadership has made a stunning confession that New Delhi doesn't have the stomach for a fight, if push came to shove on the disputed Sino-Indian boundary.

"Whether in terms of GDP, defence spend or any other parameter, the gap between the two is too wide to bridge and is getting wider by the day," he said.

Is Mehta expressing frustration at the slow pace of India's military modernisation? While India spends about billion annually on defence, China spends at least thrice as much, although some estimates go up to $ 200 billion.

Its military is twice as large as India and its nuclear arsenal far well proven.

"The eco penalties resulting from military conflict would have grave consequences for both nations. It would therefore be in both our interests to cooperate with reach other," he said.

The question is, does China want nothing but cooperation with India, as Mehta would want? It continues to proliferate missile and nuclear technology to Pakistan. Its growing footprint in the Indian Ocean challenges India's pre-eminence.

Its presence in ports ranging from Sittwe in Myanmar to Hambantotta in Lanka and Gwadar in Pakistan suggests a plan for the strategic encirclement of India. The Navy Chief's dramatic statement may have been a desperate cry to counter the Dragon.
India can't match China's military force: Navy Chief - India News - IBNLive

 

[IBRIS]

Ok. Can you explain why India has to combat China's nonmilitary threat by building up her military?

how to criple a country economically before declaring a war. But we are two huge countries our interests and agenda's fuel our rivalry. This is not eve-angelical campaign. China is at full swing, so are we.

We are only doing the catching up, you are leading us there.

 

[siegecrossbow]

how to criple a country economically before declaring a war. But we are two huge countries our interests and agenda's fuel our rivalry. This is not eve-angelical campaign. China is at full swing, so are we.

We are only doing the catching up, you are leading us there.

I'm glad that we've both toned down the confrontation level . Back to the discussion.

As you said China is leading India economically. This, I think, is the reason that China is becoming more influential in South Asia. How will it benefit India if she blindly pursue a regional arms race with China? Will it scare and browbeat the South Asian nations away from trade with China? I think a better, and more constructive plan would be building up India's economy so she could regain some of the lost influences in South Asia by competing with China marketwise.

 

[IBRIS]

How will it benefit India if she blindly pursue a regional arms race with China? Will it scare and browbeat the South Asian nations away from trade with China? I think a better, and more constructive plan would be building up India's economy so she could regain some of the lost influences in South Asia by competing with China marketwise.

China does not enjoy any influence except Pakistani shores. India keeps a balance in Indian Ocean to it's favor by not fueling any hostility with it's neighbors which are in the angle of which is more proudly represented in this forum.

Vast Indian Shore lines have more to do with Indian Naval modernization. Our region is more vulnerable to external threats and our economy demands a strong presence in the straits of key supply chain routes. India had never shown it's intentions to build such tactics as china to encirle an enemy thousands miles away. We only maintain our presence in our own grid. They call it Indian Ocean for a reason.

 

[KingOfGods]

Chinese objections are enough to make one think, it doesn't have to be only military threat. string of pearls, rings a bell.

What India is doing military-wise, is great. Every nation should do whatever is necessary for its security. But personally I don't think both navies have any big role in any future Sino-Indian conflict (which is very unlikely). Do you think that China can place a Navy at String of Pearls ports, which can defeat or fight aggresively with Indian Navy? I really doubt!!! I believe reason for String of Pearls is more economical than military!!!

Any future conflict with China will be again Army-oriented; with Air forces and Navies very little role to play.