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India far behind Pakistan's 'powerful' Submarines: Report

not able to manage rolling mill,railway,power.........dream is good

we scare.....ohhhhhhhhh...really scare:omghaha:
well u brain is too small to process simple news
it actually means that newer pakistan subs are better than older indian subs
but india does has larger number and a single nuclear sub to counter this advantage.
by the way india will induct scorpians soon, so this temporary advantage will vanish
 
PAKISTAN SHOULD BUY AIR DEFENCE SYSTEMSSSS FROM RUSSIA LIKE 50 TORM1 AIR DEFENCE SYSTEMS 50 PANTSIR S1 AIR DEFENCE SYSTEMS 50 S-300 MPU2 ND 50 S-400 AIR DEFENCE SYSTEMS THIS WILL STRENGTHEN PAKISTANS AIR DEFENCE CAPABILITIES BY MANY FOLDS ND ALMOST MAKE PAKISTAN INVINSIBILE ALL THE AIR DEFENCE SYSTEMS I STATED ABOVE IS THE NEED OF THE HOUR FOR PAKISTAN ONTOP OF THT PAKISTAN SHOULD ORDER 6 SUBMARINES FROM GERMANY U-214 SUBMARINES TYPE U-214 SUBMARINES FROM GERMANY APART FROM 6 QING CLASS SUBMARINES THT R ALREADY ON ORDER APART FROM THIS PAKISTAN SHOULD ALSO GO FOR 3 DESTROYERS DESTROYERS R ALSO VERY ESSENTIAL FOR PAKISTAN ND IS THE NEED OF THE HOUR FOR PAKISTAN PAKISTAN SHOULD ALSO GO FOR 3 DESTROYERS MAINLY OF EUROPEAN ND CHINEESE ORIGIN THERE IS 1 EUROPEAN DESTROYER I DONT REMEMBER ITS NAME IT HAS 90 LAUNCHERS CAN U BELIEVE THT U CAN FIRE 90 MISSILES SIMULTANEOUSLY AT ENEMY THT IS A GAME CHANGER ND IT WILL COMPLETELY DEVASTATE THE ENEMY ND MASSACRE THE ENEMEY SO PAKISTAN SHOULD GO FORR ND BUY 3 DESTROYERS ALSO MAINLY OF EUROPEAN ND CHINEESE ORIGIN. THANKS

you drunk kid ?
 
Nice try to snatch Food and cloth from poor people and fill their belly with their blood.
Stop interfering in other nation internal affair .
Be fair with your neighbor .
Do trade with your neighbor on equal term.
Jeeho Aur Jeene Do .
izzat do to izzat milegy.
 
Pakistani forgot their Marine Power disaster in 1971 , Pakistan's Paper Navy start sinking as soon as land in water against India.

The same paper navy that knocked two of your best ASW frigates out of the game in 1971, with INS Khukri sunk?

You do realise that this was one of greatest and most audacious actions by a sub since the Second World war. Pakistan excels in sub warfare, and your navy knows that. I'm sure they don't share your stance of a "paper navy".
 
It is the Russians that provided the expertise and technical assistance in building the Arihant, you didn't know how to build the submarine yourself despite your false claims, and the false claims your defense industry and Navy makes about the Arihant being built by India all by itself.


INS Arihant Sea Trials By Month-end, Induction End-2013

The submarine design is essentially Russian though modified as per Indian needs, but the construction - from the reactor to the nuts and bolts has been Indian.

The challenge was making a miniature nuclear reactor even after recieving the reactor design from Russia. It has been modified quite an extent.
 
So that "news" is perhaps going to be a good excuse to increase spending on Indian Naval power which is indeed increasing.

Good to see such "news" even if it's half truth.
 
The same paper navy that knocked two of your best ASW frigates out of the game in 1971, with INS Khukri sunk?

You do realise that this was one of greatest and most audacious actions by a sub since the Second World war. Pakistan excels in sub warfare, and your navy knows that. I'm sure they don't share your stance of a "paper navy".

Well, a ship was sunk. It was war. Do you want me to list the record of the PN against IN in that particular war? Ofcourse, you can say its wikipedia

1. 2 destroyers
2. 1 minesweeper
3. 3 patrol vessels
4. 7 gunboats
5. 18 Cargo,Supply and Communication ships, 3 Merchant Navy ships captured, 10 small vessels captured

for the loss of 1 frigate? I think, that's not something the PN should really boast about.

Another reason...why NS went running to Washington. Exercise Seaspark—2001

"As if these military lapses were not enough, the Deputy Chief of the Naval Staff (Operations) in a recent press briefing (Dawn February 22) has ruled out any possibility of a “blockade” of Karachi port by the I.N on “technical grounds” and termed it as an Indian political publicity ploy. If memory serves us right (since we are a nation bereft of any useful memory), in its final stages it was the “threat of blockade” that eventually pulled the curtains down on Kargil and the then able-minded Prime Minister dashed to Washington to receive the concluding bashing from our masters in the Oval office. With our economy precariously placed, volatile internal situation and geo-strategic environs favouring our adversary, not much efforts were required on part of I.N towards realisation of such an objective, had it been given a go ahead then. The Indian Naval Chief later, proudly and publicly verified such a claim. What “technicalities” are involved today in such a blockade being enforced by the indians one may ask? After all, P.N Ships taking refuge behind Churna island and other merchantman at Karachi anchorage some 30 years ago was an explicit display of such an enemy mission coming dangerously close to its accomplishment. If some seismic eruptions have lately changed the geography of Karachi and (or) our coastline has, of late, suffered a deformity with new topographic features emerging that may preclude such an Indian operation, it needs to be spelled out for public knowledge. In fact our coastal terrain (almost a straight line extending from Karachi to the mouth of Hormuz) naturally supports such an operation. Not much has come up in terms of surveillance capabilities along our coast either. On the contrary, given the Indian capability in this field (including Remote sensing satellites, A-50 Awacs and other platforms like TU 142 and TU 22-M maritime strike bombers), the upcoming Jinnah Naval Base at Ormara can only provide a limited “liberty of action” and nothing beyond. It is not an answer to the overpowering resilience that the adversary enjoys. Insofar air arm of P.N is concerned, the less said the better."


---Cdr (Retd) MUHAMMAD AZAM KHAN (Pakistani Navy)

If you really want to compare the PN compare it with the ICG. The largest ship of the PN (not including the OP class) in sheer tonnage is equivalent to the ICG's biggest ships. The main reason the ICG biggies are not armed more heavily or get better vessels is because its a 'defensive force' for patrol. The PN is a coastal navy, whose sole role will be trying to prevent a naval blockade.
 
Well, a ship was sunk. It was war. Do you want me to list the record of the PN against IN in that particular war? Ofcourse, you can say its wikipedia

1. 2 destroyers
2. 1 minesweeper
3. 3 patrol vessels
4. 7 gunboats
5. 18 Cargo,Supply and Communication ships, 3 Merchant Navy ships captured, 10 small vessels captured

for the loss of 1 frigate? I think, that's not something the PN should really boast about.

Another reason...why NS went running to Washington. Exercise Seaspark—2001

"As if these military lapses were not enough, the Deputy Chief of the Naval Staff (Operations) in a recent press briefing (Dawn February 22) has ruled out any possibility of a “blockade” of Karachi port by the I.N on “technical grounds” and termed it as an Indian political publicity ploy. If memory serves us right (since we are a nation bereft of any useful memory), in its final stages it was the “threat of blockade” that eventually pulled the curtains down on Kargil and the then able-minded Prime Minister dashed to Washington to receive the concluding bashing from our masters in the Oval office. With our economy precariously placed, volatile internal situation and geo-strategic environs favouring our adversary, not much efforts were required on part of I.N towards realisation of such an objective, had it been given a go ahead then. The Indian Naval Chief later, proudly and publicly verified such a claim. What “technicalities” are involved today in such a blockade being enforced by the indians one may ask? After all, P.N Ships taking refuge behind Churna island and other merchantman at Karachi anchorage some 30 years ago was an explicit display of such an enemy mission coming dangerously close to its accomplishment. If some seismic eruptions have lately changed the geography of Karachi and (or) our coastline has, of late, suffered a deformity with new topographic features emerging that may preclude such an Indian operation, it needs to be spelled out for public knowledge. In fact our coastal terrain (almost a straight line extending from Karachi to the mouth of Hormuz) naturally supports such an operation. Not much has come up in terms of surveillance capabilities along our coast either. On the contrary, given the Indian capability in this field (including Remote sensing satellites, A-50 Awacs and other platforms like TU 142 and TU 22-M maritime strike bombers), the upcoming Jinnah Naval Base at Ormara can only provide a limited “liberty of action” and nothing beyond. It is not an answer to the overpowering resilience that the adversary enjoys. Insofar air arm of P.N is concerned, the less said the better."


---Cdr (Retd) MUHAMMAD AZAM KHAN (Pakistani Navy)

If you really want to compare the PN compare it with the ICG. The largest ship of the PN (not including the OP class) in sheer tonnage is equivalent to the ICG's biggest ships. The main reason the ICG biggies are not armed more heavily or get better vessels is because its a 'defensive force' for patrol. The PN is a coastal navy, whose sole role will be trying to prevent a naval blockade.


Right and the other one was knocked out of the war due to damage. As for the list 1 destroyer was sunk, 1 minesweeper was sunk and the other destroyer was damaged and knocked out of the war similar to INS Kirpan. All the patrol and gunboats you listed were lost in the Eastern theatre, where they impossibly outnumbered and outgunned. The second Indian attack (Python) saw one non- Pakistani merchant vessel sunk and two others damaged.

Yes we did take more losses but we were not a paper navy and the engagement of PNS Hangor against the two Blackwood Class frigates quite clearly showed.

I’m also not disagreeing with the fact that the navy right now is limited and the government is promising to address this with the navy. It’s also not a coastal navy, which consist wholly of smaller torpedo boats and light aircraft, capable of inflicting damage on incoming enemy vessels. They do not operate diesel electric subs or corvettes/light frigates. The term “green water navy” is more applicable or just short of it.
 
Yes we did take more losses but we were not a paper navy and the engagement of PNS Hangor against the two Blackwood Class frigates quite clearly showed.

I’m also not disagreeing with the fact that the navy right now is limited and the government is promising to address this with the navy. It’s also not a coastal navy, which consist wholly of smaller torpedo boats and light aircraft, capable of inflicting damage on incoming enemy vessels. They do not operate diesel electric subs or corvettes/light frigates. The term “green water navy” is more applicable or just short of it.

Waz, the current PN while I agree may not be a paper tiger is nothing more than a coastal defence force. The best part of the PN are its subs. Till 2 years back, these were good enough. But, now with the enhanced capability of the IN in ASW, this is no longer the case. Let me again give you the example of 1999. Operation Talwar. You can check the same with serving officers of the PN what it did.

The Chilean and Venezuelan navies too operate subs. Does that make them threats? By no means, am I comparing the PN to the CN and VN. There is no comparison. But, the role assigned to the PN is that of deterrence against enforcing a blockade by the IN and if conditions permit audacious raids. This I guess it may be geared up to perform. From a pure capacity perspective, the role is quite limited. Nothing to do with the personnel, but available tools.

This article, about submarine capabilities is more of telling the idiots in South Block to get their act right.

P.S : Are you the same waz from pakistanidefence? If yes, hello again!
 
Waz, the current PN while I agree may not be a paper tiger is nothing more than a coastal defence force. The best part of the PN are its subs. Till 2 years back, these were good enough. But, now with the enhanced capability of the IN in ASW, this is no longer the case. Let me again give you the example of 1999. Operation Talwar. You can check the same with serving officers of the PN what it did.

The Chilean and Venezuelan navies too operate subs. Does that make them threats? By no means, am I comparing the PN to the CN and VN. There is no comparison. But, the role assigned to the PN is that of deterrence against enforcing a blockade by the IN and if conditions permit audacious raids. This I guess it may be geared up to perform. From a pure capacity perspective, the role is quite limited. Nothing to do with the personnel, but available tools.

This article, about submarine capabilities is more of telling the idiots in South Block to get their act right.

P.S : Are you the same waz from pakistanidefence? If yes, hello again!

Hi Suriya how are you doing? Good to see you on here. Please drop me a PM and tell me what you have been doing all this time.

The thing is the PN doesn't fit the description of a "coastal force". It's hard to find such descriptions but Wiki gives a nice look at what the inventories of such forces look like.

Coastal Forces of World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes it's from the Second World War but the comparisons are still valid i.e. very small craft and light planes.

I'm aware of the concerns during operation Talwar but the navy lacked things it has today e.g. the AIP capability, which only came about in the mid 0's and hypersonic anti-ship missiles such as the CM-400, to name a few things.

I know the Chilean navy operates submarines, but the number is very small at two vessels and yet they are considered a green water force. They also have a smaller force than the PN and no Naval air-arm unlike the PN. The Venezuelan force is even smaller. So like I said before the PN is a green water force or slightly short of it and is looking to enhance both its size and capability.

I agree whole heartedly with the fact that our force is very limited against the ability and reach of India's blue water navy.
 

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