India, China, & Sarah Palin

[Veritas]

Many Pakistanis, and others, know what game is being played. When we see India and Indians acting jingoistic and arrogant towards all their neighbors, and then pretending to act all nice towards Chinese, it's not fooling anybody -- least of all the Chinese.

What was it you said, "assassin's mace"? Indeed!

The little act is immensely enjoyable to watch, though.

China is a bigger country than Pakistan and will be dealt accordingly. You can go read the history of sub-continent wars and who started it, if you read objetive sources. Our trade with China is leaps and bounds beyond our trade with any other country. Yes, we trade the most with China. Sorry Pakistan we cannot treat you like China.

 

[Developereo]

Indians have always done well under Republican presidents, even though Indians seem to love Clinton and Obama, it was Bush who remarkably changed the structural working between the two countries. I do not see any future american president, moving away from it, even though it would be a Demorcrat who will pounce on Outsourcing more than a Republican.

Actually, Republicans are more aware of "national security" issues and have tended to be more pro-Pakistan, while Democrats have always been pro-India, because of India's successful lobbying machine. The Pentagon tended to neutralize Indian lobbying during Republican administrations and big business had no reason to favor either India or Pakistan.

The situation changed dramatically after China's rise and India's economic reforms. India became attractive both to military-industrial complex as a customer and as a partner in opposing China.

Paling is in the laisse faire camp, so I do not see much criticism of India even though there could be references.

Palin is a shameless demagog. She will bash whatever gets the voters going.

I don't about that - the world wants to capture a piece of the Chinese market - and I think China and any other country can immunize itself to a great degree by developing the internal market.

Allow me to add that it should by now, be clear, to a majority of observers, Chinese or otherwise, that the US is determined, committed, to the proposition that making China busy with wars is key to the US and her allies's survival as so called great powers --- and while some in India, and particularly the NRI, might buy into this hostility towards China, most Indians I think understand, that they do not need to be fodder in the West's coming wars against China - yes, wars.

What makes you think India is not a willing partner in the West's strategy to contain China?

 

[Vinod2070]

China is a bigger country than Pakistan and will be dealt accordingly. You can go read the history of sub-continent wars and who started it, if you read objetive sources. Our trade with China is leaps and bounds beyond our trade with any other country. Yes, we trade the most with China. Sorry Pakistan we cannot treat you like China.

Mate, the insecurities are all too transparent here.

Many of them know how shallow the relationship is and what little substance it has.

The majority of the Chinese are anti-Muslim if polls are to be believed.

 

[LaBong]

What makes you think India is not a willing partner in the West's strategy to contain China?

What makes you think India is willing? Do you see any foreign military bases in our country or do we have any military pact with west?

India historically is a status-quoist state.

 

[Developereo]

Baggage, not facts.

A simple search of the forum will dispel any doubts.

Just your need to try and butter up individual Chinese on an anonymous forum. It really gets very pathetic if you didn't know that.

We already have a good relationship with China. We don't need to butter anyone up.
It is the Indian posters who display the schizophrenic behavior.

Do read up on it, it is an interesting concept.

No need to. The concept is as old as time itself.
Another description of India's policy towards China is the maxim, "diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie until you can find a stick".

It is indeed funny, just a bit too transparent. Try and do something about it if you guys can.

We got the popcorn ready.

It is even more fun when some Indian poster lets the cat out of the bag, and the Indian damage control team scrambles to restore the charade.

 

[Vinod2070]

What makes you think India is willing? Do you see any foreign military bases in our country or do we have any military pact with west?

India historically is a status-quoist power.

These facts don't matter. What matters is their need to see what they want to.

India has never been part of any alliance with anyone or against anyone. We co-operate with the Chinese on some common issues and with the West and Americans on others. It is all about with whom our interest coincides on specific issues.

 

[Developereo]

There is no silent development, in an energy intensive economies if you want to become an economic power you compete for the same resources. Access to energy/fossil fuels, they are limited and China imports are lot of it, yeah, you can be silent and import coal from Australia and burn the hell out of it, but even for coal there is competition.

Now China is trying to lead in renewable energies because of the "energy insecurity", which I think is very positive. But in this world of finite resources you cannot hide consumption... so there is no trump card.

Yes, the energy footprint will expose your growth rate, but this is about public perception. China is in the spotlight because people see "made in China" everywhere they see.

Few people look at oil futures or international energy deals.
Everybody goes to the clothing store and sees everything "Made in China".
It stands out.

 

[LaBong]

These facts don't matter. What matters is their need to see what they want to.

India has never been part of any alliance with anyone or against anyone. We co-operate with the Chinese on some common issues and with the West and Americans on others. It is all about with whom our interest coincides on specific issues.

Yeah seems for some people gut-feeling matters more than facts.

Republic of India had been in an alliance with Soviets since her inception, but didn't indulge herself to Soviet misadventure in the name of religious war. Thankfully our leaders were much more pragmatic and patriotic than their Pakistani counterparts.

 

[Vinod2070]

A simple search of the forum will dispel any doubts.

I am following the forum. Some Indians have confrontations with the Chinese as much as some have healthy debates.

May be a healthy debate means something to you. But I doubt I can help you there.

Most Indians have nothing against China or Chinese. You have a hard time understanding this simple fact. This would reflect in the debates as well.

We already have a good relationship with China. We don't need to butter anyone up.
It is the Indian posters who display the schizophrenic behavior.

Well, your insecurities are all too apparent. I guess you personally know the depth of this relationship as well.

You also have a good relationship with the USA, the most allied ally and the "most preferred non NATO ally". You know what lies behind that.

Then you claim that Indian ties with USA can only be anti China!

Fact is, ties with USA is more important for any country now than with each other.

This includes the Chinese ties to USA. They won't jeopardize that even if it is at the cost of ties with Pakistan. There have been instances of that in the past.

No need to. The concept is as old as time itself.
Another description of India's policy towards China is the maxim, "diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie until you can find a stick".

I already said your insecurities and trying to (not so) subtly convince the Chinese about Indian intentions is just too transparent.

We got the popcorn ready.

It is even more fun when some Indian poster lets the cat out of the bag, and the Indian damage control team scrambles to restore the charade.

I know people get convinced by their own rhetoric.

Sigh!

 

[Vinod2070]

Yeah seems for some people gut-feeling matters more than facts.

Republic of India had been in an alliance with Soviets since her inception, but didn't indulge herself to Soviet misadventure in the name of religious war. Thankfully our leaders were much more pragmatic and patriotic than their Pakistani counterparts.

There was no alliance in the sense of "Warsaw pact" or NATO or CENTO.

India leaned towards the USSR because of the socialist tendencies of our leaders especially Nehru. We didn't chose either Superpower to ally and that's how NAM came into the picture.

India was a founding leader of the NAM.

 

[indushek]

Many Pakistanis, and others, know what game is being played. When we see India and Indians acting jingoistic and arrogant towards all their neighbors, and then pretending to act all nice towards Chinese, it's not fooling anybody -- least of all the Chinese.

What was it you said, "assassin's mace"? Indeed!

The little act is immensely enjoyable to watch, though.

Excuse me but i have been seeing your comment about this supposed "double standard" from Indians too often recently.

What exactly do you want Indians to do?? start calling all kind of bad things towards Chinese?? talk about bad side of China??

Be as antagonistic as we can??

Is this what you want?? Sorry to say but you sound like a 14 year old rather than a grown up.

You very well know and i know (because i have seen the bad blood between Indians and Chinese, for which you urself have contributed much in the past and enjoying the resulting bans and verbal diarrhea very much. I will not quote those earlier threads and your posts as a proof because i don't give a $hit about what you think of my accusations as i know its true.) that not all Indians speak bad of Chinese. Those who are jingoistic are still jingoistic towards China and Chinese even now.

It seems that your quota of Sadistic pleasure derived from here has gone down recently because of reduction in the verbal sparring between Indians and Chinese which u want to resume at full speed ahead!!!!

I will not give greater significance to your schemes or whatever by calling it subterfuge but it smacks of cheap mentality.

 

[Developereo]

China is a bigger country than Pakistan and will be dealt accordingly. You can go read the history of sub-continent wars and who started it, if you read objetive sources. Our trade with China is leaps and bounds beyond our trade with any other country. Yes, we trade the most with China. Sorry Pakistan we cannot treat you like China.

It's not a question of comparing Pakistan to China; of course the latter is hugely bigger. It is about the fact that India has a tendency to view its neighbors as convenient bogeymen to shore up internal unity -- whether it's Pakistan on the west, or Bangladesh on the east.

Now India is stretching its legs beyond south Asia and wants a bigger bogeyman, i.e. China.

Mate, the insecurities are all too transparent here.

Many of them know how shallow the relationship is and what little substance it has.

It's substantive enough to give us technological, financial and diplomatic support all these years.
Please don't even try and pretend to understand Pakistan's relationship with China.
There is a world beyond India and most countries have interests that don't involve India at every stage.

The majority of the Chinese are anti-Muslim if polls are to be believed.

And the majority of Indians are anti-Muslim, if the same polls are to be believed.

What makes you think India is willing? Do you see any foreign military bases in our country or do we have any military pact with west?

Your media, politicians and military leaders have made it clear.

India historically is a status-quoist state.

Not when it came to Sikkim, Nepal, Sri Lanka, or Bangaldesh.
This is assuming that all the trouble between India/Pakistan is caused solely by Pakistan.

 

[Vinod2070]

Excuse me but i have been seeing your comment about this supposed "double standard" from Indians too often recently.

What exactly do you want Indians to do?? start calling all kind of bad things towards Chinese?? talk about bad side of China??

Be as antagonistic as we can??

Is this what you want?? Sorry to say but you sound like a 14 year old rather than a grown up.

You very well know and i know (because i have seen the bad blood between Indians and Chinese, for which you urself have contributed much in the past and enjoying the resulting bans and verbal diarrhea very much. I will not quote those earlier threads and your posts as a proof because i don't give a $hit about what you think of my accusations as i know its true.) that not all Indians speak bad of Chinese. Those who are jingoistic are still jingoistic towards China and Chinese even now.

It seems that your quota of Sadistic pleasure derived from here has gone down recently because of reduction in the verbal sparring between Indians and Chinese which u want to resume at full speed ahead!!!!

I will not give greater significance to your schemes or whatever by calling it subterfuge but it smacks of cheap mentality.

You know, Chinese are famous for being pragmatic and inscrutable.

These little tricks don't mean much in the real world. They need Pakistan for reasons which all of us understand, including the Chinese.

I never fail to appreciate the Colonel OOE for showing me the Chinese way of thinking. Brilliant, simply brilliant.

 

[Vinod2070]

It's not a question of comparing Pakistan to China; of course the latter is hugely bigger. It is about the fact that India has a tendency to view its neighbors as convenient bogeymen to shore up internal unity -- whether it's Pakistan on the west, or Bangladesh on the east.

That is what you think. Because your nation was created and is held together because of hate for India.

Now India is stretching its legs beyond south Asia and wants a bigger bogeyman, i.e. China.

Your imaginations doing the trick, nothing else.

China is not a bogeyman in India. It is our largest trade partner.

The issues are minor and mostly in the nature of poking each other.

It's substantive enough to give us technological, financial and diplomatic support all these years.
Please don't even try and pretend to understand Pakistan's relationship with China.
There is a world beyond India and most countries have interests that don't involve India at every stage.

But you presume to speak for everyone in the world. You want me not to even "try and pretend to understand Pakistan's relationship with China"!

Didn't you yourself start a thread which said exactly what I am saying here?

You are really funny. My daily dose of laughter.

And the majority of Indians are anti-Muslim, if the same polls are to be believed.

Its not about India. Its about the depth of Chinese relations with Pakistan!

Your media, politicians and military leaders have made it clear.

Lol. Myopia and selective filter at its best.

Not when it came to Sikkim, Nepal, Sri Lanka, or Bangaldesh.
This is assuming that all the trouble between India/Pakistan is caused solely by Pakistan.

Leave out Sikkim from this.

We have reasonable relations with all others you mentioned. They can be better but they are not hostile either.

 

[LaBong]

Your media, politicians and military leaders have made it clear.

Yeah they made it clear that Indian soil will never be let used by a foreign country to wage war against a sovereign country. Sovereignty comes first to Indians.

Not when it came to Sikkim, Nepal, Sri Lanka, or Bangaldesh.
This is assuming that all the trouble between India/Pakistan is caused solely by Pakistan.

Last I checked Sikkim is a state of India and rather a proud one to be so. And exactly when we fought a war against SL, Nepal and BD. I'm afraid that having a free border and giving out island and vast tract of land aint considered as act of war to most people.

Regarding Pakistan, it's the same old, same old.