India, China, & Sarah Palin

[Developereo]

The difference is that when you say 'Indian military is preparing for two-front war, it means that India is going to attack both India and China. When we say we are prepared for a two-front war, it means that we are alive to the possibility that in a remote case, you might attack us.

This is called hoping for the best and being prepared for the worst. I hope you understand now.

I understood it to mean "India is preparing its capabilities to meet a two-front war with Pakistan and China -- if it should happen".

It's like "I'm preparing for guests to arrive".

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

I understood it to mean "India is preparing its capabilities to meet a two-front war with Pakistan and China -- if it should happen".

It's like "I'm preparing for guests to arrive".

preparing for a possibility of the arrival of two unwanted guests at a time.

 

[Vinod2070]

Spare me!
The world does not revolve around India. Get over yourself!

OK.

It was you brought up the issue, not me. You have a tendency to not understanding the context. Understandable because of the constant flip flops.

Yes, there's a lot of poking going around in the form of military deployments up there.

Yep. It is all for deterrence. To raise the costs of any possible misadventure.

I will let the Chinese wisdom prevail on you.

Good fences make good neighbours.

And where have I said anything different? All relationships are about self-interest and realpolitik.
China-Pakistan relationship is the same: it serves China's interests and it serves Pakistan's interests.

That thread showed your insecurities, as also of many Pakistanis about the very basis and depth of the relationship. It was a genuine issue and remains one.

The only point I was making in that thread is that we should enhance cultural exchange with China, in addition to the existing relationship.

You can try and do that. There are some facts and realities that you can't change though.

More like diversionary tactics to shift the discussion.

Sikkim is relevant, as are the others, to show a pattern of duplicity and malicious meddling in the affairs of neighbors.

Off topic here, we can take up else where.

I stand behind those point. Those are my suggestions to improve a relationship.
It does not, in any way, invalidate the existing relationship that has stood the test of time.

Perhaps you should actually read the thread.

I will let the people decide. I know what I see and you know what you meant. There are several posts there that I can quote but that is not the point.

It's to show a pattern of behavior towards all of India's neighbors, and why China should not expect anything different.

Ah, the concern for the innocent gullible Chinese.

Glad you finally admitted it. That's all I've been saying.
What the Chinese call legitimate self-interests, you call hegemony.

I have said this to the Chinese directly! We don't need mediators for that.

Thwarting Chinese interests is good for China? interesting...

I said China's neighbors! And the mutual interest there happens to be with China's neighbors and the West.

These are precisely the people that matter. Foreign policy is not made by the masses.
It is the media personalities, politicians, military elite and think tank elites who provide input to foreign policy.
In India's case, this segment of society seems to have a very specific view towards China.

Too simplistic. You see what you want to see, or rather pretend to see what you want to see.

Actually, now that you mentioned it, I am not the one who brough it up.
We had a good discussion going about America's view of China until this issue was brought in.

Again, your repeating this thin endlessly looks pretty...

Let me not say it. You can figure out how it comes across as.

 

[KS]

I don't care if Indians and Chinese get along or not. I am only commenting on the behavior of the Indians.

When the exact same Indians act all jingoistic and 'India Shining' towards all their neighbors, and then act like India is oh-so-humble when talking to the Chinese, the switch is obvious. They don't even act this humble when comparing themselves to the West or the US.

It's quite hilarious!

I dont think so. The only nation that Indians speak favourably of is Russia and sometimes Israel.

The only reason why some Indians speak humbly to Chinese is that they also exhibit the humbleness. But if they try to give $hit then the return is even more better.

Want an example ?? http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/98821-tibet-issue.html

 

[500]

Dear god. 10 pages of discussion about Sarah Palin??

 

[Paan Singh]

Dear god. 10 pages of discussion about Sarah Palin??

y r u surprised??
dont u know anything??

 

[Developereo]

It was you brought up the issue, not me. You have a tendency to not understanding the context. Understandable because of the constant flip flops.

I replied to your statement in post #119, "Because your nation was created and is held together because of hate for India".

You really should try to debate more effectively then simply repeating what the other guy said after switching nouns around.

That thread showed your insecurities, as also of many Pakistanis about the very basis and depth of the relationship. It was a genuine issue and remains one.

"insecurities".
Is that your new favorite word-of-the-day that you use whenever you draw a blank?

You can try and do that. There are some facts and realities that you can't change though.

No relationship is perfect. There is always room for improvement.

I will let the people decide. I know what I see and you know what you meant. There are several posts there that I can quote but that is not the point.

Nothing to hide. The Chinese leadership and intelligensia knows the value of the Pakistani relationship over India. My entire thesis in that thread was that, as China becomes more democratic and the masses become more influenced by Indian propaganda, the elite will have to work harder to explain the big picture.

It does not change the fundamental dynamic between India and China as rivals in almost everything.

Ah, the concern for the innocent gullible Chinese.

It's a commentary on the damage control team's ongoing adventures...

I have said this to the Chinese directly! We don't need mediators for that.

Then we all agree that India views China as a hegemonic threat. Conversely, it views China as a hindrance to it's own hegemonic ambitions.

I said China's neighbors! And the mutual interest there happens to be with China's neighbors and the West.

Yup, we're also in agreement here about India's common interest with the West and others to contain China's rise.

 

[Vinod2070]

I replied to your statement in post #119, "Because your nation was created and is held together because of hate for India".

You really should try to debate more effectively then simply repeating what the other guy said after switching nouns around.

Sigh! This is how it started.

It's not a question of comparing Pakistan to China; of course the latter is hugely bigger. It is about the fact that India has a tendency to view its neighbors as convenient bogeymen to shore up internal unity -- whether it's Pakistan on the west, or Bangladesh on the east.

Hegemonic misadventures?

May be.

"insecurities".
Is that your new favorite word-of-the-day that you use whenever you run a blank?

An apt word to describe what we are seeing here.

No relationship is perfect. There is always room for improvement.

Nothing to hide. The Chinese leadership and intelligensia knows the value of the Pakistani relationship over India.
My entire thesis in that thread was that, as China becomes more democratic and the masses become more influenced by Indian propaganda, the elite will have to work harder to explain the big picture.

We can argue over this in an appropriate thread in detail. Let this part not hijack this thread which is not about Pakistan.

It does not change the fundamental dynamic between India and China as rivals in almost everything.

Rivalry in some areas and co-operation in others.

It's a commentary on the damage control team's ongoing adventures...

I like your tenacity though.

Then we all agree that India views China as a hegemonic threat.

I speak as an individual but yes that is a risk that we are working to mitigate. Pakistan has nothing to do with it.

Yup, we're all in agreement here about India's common interest with the West and others to contain China's rise.

You mix different things seamlessly.

We have admiration for China's economic growth.

We need to guard against the possible hegemony.

I was talking about the anti-China rhetoric in America. You and other Indians started going ballistic about Pakistanis. It was only at that point that I stepped into the discussion.

OK. So it's done now?

 

[Vinod2070]

Conversely, it views China as a hindrance to it's own hegemonic ambitions.

You added this later. The answer is: NO.

 

[Developereo]

You added this later. The answer is: NO.

How can it not?
If India views China as a hegemonic threat and is working actively to derail China's hegemonic plans, what makes you think China won't return the favor?

PS. Oh, I forgot. India doesn't have any hegemonic plans.

 

[Vinod2070]

How can it not?
If India views China as a hegemonic threat and is working actively to derail China's hegemonic plans, what makes you think China won't return the favor?

PS. Oh, I forgot. India doesn't have any hegemonic plans.

India doesn't have any hegemonic plans in Asia that would effect China.

I don't want to bring South Asian issues in this thread. Doesn't mean I agree with your post on that part. Just not an appropriate thread for that.

 

[bronx]

To conclude , making some "tongue in cheek" observations -

1) If I were the Americans, I would pray like hell that she does NOT get elected as VP or P . The yanks need someone to lead them out of the depressed state of the economy , not a "soccer mum" who may well be intellectually challenged (IF the press reports are true - "I can see Russia from my house ") ..LOL

2) If I were China , I would use all legal and financial means to fund her election , maybe up to $500 million if necessary. (Hint : Two of the best lobby firms in Washington, Cassidy & Associates and Van Scoyoc Associates) Can you imagine the strategic benefits to China if she gets elected as President ? The yanks will keep tripping on its own shoe laces, shooting themselves in the foot (again) , giving China the ability to springboard another 5 generations ahead . See #1 above

3) If I were India , I would wonder WHY in heavens will all the top business & social leaders attend her talk ? The talk will lower the average IQ of India...Why would the Indian Government actually grant Sarah a visa in the 1st place ?

Maybe it was the Democrats who paid for Sarah's trip LOL....

 

[CardSharp]

OK.

It was you brought up the issue, not me. You have a tendency to not understanding the context. Understandable because of the constant flip flops.



Yep. It is all for deterrence. To raise the costs of any possible misadventure.

I will let the Chinese wisdom prevail on you.





That thread showed your insecurities, as also of many Pakistanis about the very basis and depth of the relationship. It was a genuine issue and remains one.



You can try and do that. There are some facts and realities that you can't change though.







Off topic here, we can take up else where.



I will let the people decide. I know what I see and you know what you meant. There are several posts there that I can quote but that is not the point.



Ah, the concern for the innocent gullible Chinese.



I have said this to the Chinese directly! We don't need mediators for that.



I said China's neighbors! And the mutual interest there happens to be with China's neighbors and the West.



Too simplistic. You see what you want to see, or rather pretend to see what you want to see.


Again, your repeating this thin endlessly looks pretty...

Let me not say it. You can figure out how it comes across as.

No one in China cares about you, it's only because I've joined this forum that I've gotten into the fray. Frankly your obsession is repulsive. This is my feeling.

 

[Vinod2070]

No one in China cares about you, it's only because I've joined this forum that I've gotten into the fray. Frankly your obsession is repulsive. This is my feeling.

I am not sure what you understood from that post.

I feel you have some misunderstanding of what is being discussed. That is my feeling.

And same for the fact that we are only discussing China on a forum. In my real life it matters little or nothing.

 

[Speeder 2]

Sarah Palin for 2012 !!!

That will be the golden opportunity that China looks for to take care of India, once and for good!