India, China, & Sarah Palin

[Vinod2070]

I don't know the reason but this habit of mixing responses to several people in one post is really not conducive to good discussions.

May be you want to reconsider it. There is a reason no one else does it. Not to this extent anyway.

 

[indushek]

You know, Chinese are famous for being pragmatic and inscrutable.

These little tricks don't mean much in the real world. They need Pakistan for reasons which all of us understand, including the Chinese.

I never fail to appreciate the Colonel OOE for showing me the Chinese way of thinking. Brilliant, simply brilliant.

Sorry i posted to the wrong person!!!!!!!!!!

Exactly my point, the people here who think that their approval or indignation towards the others will turn the world events are really pathetic. Saying that they are myopic is an understatement of this century.

 

[Developereo]

Yeah seems for some people gut-feeling matters more than facts.

Republic of India had been in an alliance with Soviets since her inception, but didn't indulge herself to Soviet misadventure in the name of religious war. Thankfully our leaders were much more pragmatic and patriotic than their Pakistani counterparts.

I never said India will go to war with China. I don't see how it would benefit anybody.

Well, your insecurities are all too apparent. I guess you personally know the depth of this relationship as well.

Just repeating the word "insecurities" does not constitute a debate.
China-Pakistan ties are substantial enough to keep your military men occupied.

Then you claim that Indian ties with USA can only be anti China!

India's ties with the West are multi-dimensional, as all international relations are. I am saying that India and the West share an agenda to contain China's rise.

I already said your insecurities and trying to (not so) subtly convince the Chinese about Indian intentions is just too transparent.

I don't need to convince anyone of anything. The Indian media, politicians and military are sending the signal loud and clear.

...rant...

I don't care if Indians and Chinese get along or not. I am only commenting on the behavior of the Indians.

When the exact same Indians act all jingoistic and 'India Shining' towards all their neighbors, and then act like India is oh-so-humble when talking to the Chinese, the switch is obvious. They don't even act this humble when comparing themselves to the West or the US.

It's quite hilarious!

 

[Vinod2070]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...why-china-will-chose-india-over-pakistan.html

Guys, check out this thread. Developero actually made some very good points.

I hate to say this as a Pakistani but, in the long term, I see China abandoning Pakistan in favor of India. The reason is simple: Paksitan is pursuing the exact same failed policy with China that it did with the US.

Pakistan/China cooperation is strictly limited to military and governmental levels. There is very little people-to-people contact and almost no cultural exchange. The relationship is one of 'colleagues, not friends'.

India, on the other hand, is using its soft power to build a positive image amongst the Chinese masses. As China becomes more democratic, it will tilt more and more towards India.

This is exactly what happened in the US. While the Pakistan military enjoyed a cozy relationship with the Pentagon, India was busy buying politcians and working on a grass-roots campaign within the US.

Clueless as ever, the Pakistani government is pursuing exactly the same myopic and limited relationship with China. And there is no effort from the Chinese side to expand the relationship either.

The other main factor is that, instead of being a strong self-sufficient ally, Pakistan is becoming more and more like a destitute friend who needs to be propped up. Right now, China is facing subtle resistance and resentment from the West and it sees Pakistan as a symbolic gateway to the resource-rich Muslim world. Once China is firmly in the driver's seat, will they want to associate themselves with a perpetually sick friend like Pakistan because, let's face it, the feudal-military alliance leading Paksitan has absolutely no interest in a stable, strong Pakistan. They are strictly interested in a short term strategy of lining their own coffers while they are in power and then running away to some foreign country.

So you realize yourself the depth and now you are in denial and insecure?

 

[Vinod2070]

Yeah they made it clear that Indian soil will never be let used by a foreign country to wage war against a sovereign country. Sovereignty comes first to Indians.

Last I checked Sikkim is a state of India and rather a proud one to be so. And exactly when we fought a war against SL, Nepal and BD. I'm afraid that having a free border and giving out island and vast tract of land aint considered as act of war to most people.

Regarding Pakistan, it's the same old, same old.

You know, they always bring Bangladesh and some non-Muslim countries when complaining about India's relations with it's neighbors. To try and show that India has a problem not only with Pakistan but all of them.

I wonder why!

 

[LaBong]

They don't even act this humble when comparing themselves to the West or the US.

May be because West don't face problems of the same magnitude as India and China. There are only two countries in the world who have 1 billion people to take care, so Indians tend to appreciate Chinese successes more and try to reciprocate them in their own country.

 

[Vinod2070]

I never said India will go to war with China. I don't see how it would benefit anybody.

Good. Let the other Pakistanis also know it is not happening.

Some of them are so concerned about Chinese people and "infrastructure" you know.

Just repeating the word "insecurities" does not constitute a debate.
China-Pakistan ties are substantial enough to keep your military men occupied.

That is good. I don't want them become too complacent.

India's ties with the West are multi-dimensional, as all international relations are. I am saying that India and the West share an agenda to contain China's rise.

May be. We may look at it differently, to prevent Chinese hegemony of Asia. That would a mutual interest, a multi polar Asia, good for all of Asia and Chinese neighbors in particular.

I don't need to convince anyone of anything. The Indian media, politicians and military are sending the signal loud and clear.

The national policy is much beyond media reports and some statements.

I don't care if Indians and Chinese get along or not. I am only commenting on the behavior of the Indians.

When the exact same Indians act all jingoistic and 'India Shining' towards all their neighbors, and then act like India is oh-so-humble when talking to the Chinese, the switch is obvious. They don't even act this humble when comparing themselves to the West or the US.

It's quite hilarious!

You have convinced yourself of your own rhetoric and you keep on repeating it in every alternate post.

Doesn't make it anything more than the opinion of one person.

Don't bring it every thread. Make a separate thread for it if you feel about it so strongly.

 

[Developereo]

Yeah they made it clear that Indian soil will never be let used by a foreign country to wage war against a sovereign country. Sovereignty comes first to Indians.

No, they made it clear they are preparing for a two-front war with Pakistan and China.

Last I checked Sikkim is a state of India and rather a proud one to be so. And exactly when we fought a war against SL, Nepal and BD. I'm afraid that having a free border and giving out island and vast tract of land aint considered as act of war to most people.

Sikkim was annexed by India through some rather "interesting" manoeuvering.
India has supported insurgencies in Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

No, they made it clear they are preparing for a two-front war with Pakistan and China.

Preparing vs Prepared. Two very similar words, but by your very clever use, they convey totally different meanings.

 

[LaBong]

No, they made it clear they are preparing for a two-front war with Pakistan and China.

China is preparing for war from all direction, there is a profound difference between preparing for war and waging war on other countries.

Sikkim was annexed by India through some rather "interesting" manoeuvering.
India has supported insurgencies in Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.

Whatever maneuver it was, there are quite happy being knows as Indian. I think the resident Sikkimese in this forum are among the most nationalistic types.

There is no state support for insurgents, LTTE was banned in India as were Maoists and Chittagong group.

 

[Vinod2070]

Preparing vs Prepared. Two very similar words, but by your very clever use, they convey totally different meanings.

Aren't the mental gymnastics amusing.

First:

What makes you think India is willing? Do you see any foreign military bases in our country or do we have any military pact with west?

Your media, politicians and military leaders have made it clear.

And now it got changed to:

No, they made it clear they are preparing for a two-front war with Pakistan and China.

Are they the same thing!

 

[indushek]

Aren't the mental gymnastics amusing.

First:



And now it got changed to:




Are they the same thing!

These playing with words tricks have become so old by now, they sound like cliche u know but what can one say it is an open forum and we are guests!!!

 

[Developereo]

That is what you think. Because your nation was created and is held together because of hate for India.

Spare me!
The world does not revolve around India. Get over yourself!

The issues are minor and mostly in the nature of poking each other.

Yes, there's a lot of poking going around in the form of military deployments up there.

Didn't you yourself start a thread which said exactly what I am saying here?

And where have I said anything different? All relationships are about self-interest and realpolitik.
China-Pakistan relationship is the same: it serves China's interests and it serves Pakistan's interests.

The only point I was making in that thread is that we should enhance cultural exchange with China, in addition to the existing relationship.

Lol. Myopia and selective filter at its best.

More like diversionary tactics to shift the discussion.

Leave out Sikkim from this.

We have reasonable relations with all others you mentioned. They can be better but they are not hostile either.

Sikkim is relevant, as are the others, to show a pattern of duplicity and malicious meddling in the affairs of neighbors.

Guys, check out this thread. Developero actually made some very good points.
So you realize yourself the depth and now you are in denial and insecure?

I stand behind those point. Those are my suggestions to improve a relationship.
It does not, in any way, invalidate the existing relationship that has stood the test of time.

Perhaps you should actually read the thread.

You know, they always bring Bangladesh and some non-Muslim countries when complaining about India's relations with it's neighbors. To try and show that India has a problem not only with Pakistan but all of them.

I wonder why!

It's to show a pattern of behavior towards all of India's neighbors, and why China should not expect anything different.

We may look at it differently, to prevent Chinese hegemony of Asia.

Glad you finally admitted it. That's all I've been saying.
What the Chinese call legitimate self-interests, you call hegemony.

That would a mutual interest, a multi polar Asia, good for all of Asia and Chinese neighbors in particular.

Thwarting Chinese interests is good for China? interesting...

The national policy is much beyond media reports and some statements.

These are precisely the people that matter. Foreign policy is not made by the masses.
It is the media personalities, politicians, military elite and think tank elites who provide input to foreign policy.
In India's case, this segment of society seems to have a very specific view towards China.

Don't bring it every thread. Make a separate thread for it if you feel about it so strongly.

Actually, now that you mentioned it, I am not the one who brough it up.
We had a good discussion going about America's view of China until this issue was brought in.

 

[Developereo]

Exactly my point, the people here who think that their approval or indignation towards the others will turn the world events are really pathetic. Saying that they are myopic is an understatement of this century.

Nobody's changing world events here. We are discussing attitudes.

Preparing vs Prepared. Two very similar words, but by your very clever use, they convey totally different meanings.

I fail to see the difference. Do you think military preparedness is like baking a cake? Once you're done, you dust off and take a nap?

It is an ongoing endeavour. You constantly keep up with changing realities and you keep preparing...

To say that the Indian military is preparing for a scenario is to say they are continually updating their capability to handle that scenario.

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

I fail to see the difference. Do you think military preparedness is like baking a cake? Once you're done, you dust off and take a nap?

It is an ongoing endeavour. You constantly keep up with changing realities and you keep preparing...

To say that the Indian military is preparing for a scenario is to say they are continually updating their capability to handle that scenario.

The difference is that when you say 'Indian military is preparing for two-front war, it means that India is going to attack both India and China. When we say we are prepared for a two-front war, it means that we are alive to the possibility that in a remote case, you might attack us.

This is called hoping for the best and being prepared for the worst. I hope you understand now.