Provide us with credible sources.
India and China :Jostling for space in the sea??
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Provide us with credible sources.
indiapakistanfriendship
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During the 80's border incident onwards China expected to open up a second fron through Pakistan without coulslting Pakistan.
Interesting, the aggressor(Pakistan) learns about India's aggressive ideaology.. quiet
funny I say
Again aggressor learns about Indian ideology, again quiet funny I say.
Blaaah and Burhaaa,... your peoples nation whatever cannot afford to divert its attention from Taiwan front. For China Taiwan is the centre of future conflict and to take it by millitary force is one of the stated aims of PLA. Also in any major conflict China cannot rein down or deploy its armour or airforce in its entirety, thanks to a fort called Himalayas, so it has no other option but to groom Pakistan to keep India busy in a second front.
Blaha .. did they teach this in your schools.
Given a choice between your opinion and OOE's I d take OOE's any given Sunday..
vish
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Couldn't you be more serious?
Three Gorges Dam has been on table for study for 30 or 40 years.
"never subjected to fundamental feasibility studies. "
Please read more before posting those absurd statements!
Perhaps this should suffice:
Environment-China: Banned voices speak on Three Gorges Dam
The main concern, and perhaps the only in my view, is sedimentation. Proper studies were not conducted to assess its impact.
Sino-Indian relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The article above outlines what is known to public.
This should suffiec your concern I guess...
India Vs. China (borderline War) - Page 8 - World Affairs Board
I also suggest that you read more of Sir OoE's post; he's an expert on everything and anything to do with China (including the Three Gorges Dam).
Things that Sir OoE does not know about China can be written on the back of a postage stamp.
Mohammed Azizuddin
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None of my points are refuted:
1) So named Democracy Alliance is dead. Moreover, since China is Australias biggest trade partner, it is against Australias interest to go against China. http://www.dfat.gov.au/publications/stats-pubs/cot_cy2007.pdf
2) Many oil tanks bounding for China are foreign tanks.
3) China will counter-attack in a state of war or conflict.
4) China has more domestic oil capability. It uses more oil due to the fact that China is a world shop. For that, all stake-holders want to bolster it for their own interest.
In addition, Chinas import of crude from Russia will increase. Energy-wise in general, China also has world No.1 coal reserve, numerous natural gas projects, hydro-power...
Unless reckless Indians myopically upset balance in SA, China will mainly attend the East where most of Asians developed economies are.
A foreign oil tank unloads crude oil at an unknown Chinese port. Photo taken on January 15, 2005. [newsphoto]
Why is it according to your thought that any organisation that Pakistan is not invited into is a dead organisation???
BRIC....DEAD,
G-8....FOOLS,
G-5....IDIOTS,
UN report on development.....Biased, conspired against Pakistan,
C'mon Dude, open your eyes and Understand!!!!
Trade, for any country is important.China may ne Australia's biggest trading partner,but US,India,Japan and Singapore together constitute a 50% of Aussie trade
. and,for that matter China is also India's biggest trading partner, and does that mean everything will be rosy??And what...Many oil tanks coming to China are foreign tanks...well, many coming to India or for that matter to Pakistan are also foreign tanks.
2)China has domestic oil capability??...Well, what do you mean by that??
If you are trying to say that they produce more oil, then I have already posted facts regarding China's position on oil...Please read properly.
3)China will counter-attack if attack......Woha...you are a genius..I did'nt know that!!!
4)China has huge Coal reserves and huge dams,..great..thats good for the economy, it will give fuel to the economic growth,,..its all together a different issue,,,..
5)Unless reckless Indians myopically upset balance in SA, China will mainly attend the East where most of Asians developed economies are.
Dude, what are you trying to say...were you on a high or something??
Anyways,
Fortunately, my language capability opens me to two sides of the story, unlike you unfortunate bunches.
As a matter of fact, sedimentation is only one of many key concerns.
Any plan has its own risk. No plan will be perfect in limited time frame, especially for a huge project like this.
Doing nothing is always the safest.
In your first wiki link, I dont see any thing about using Pakistan as an attacking route.
In your second link, Officer of Engineer, in a capacity of a Canadian military person, quoted a source-less statement allegedly from a PLA captain, as perhaps a process of brain-storm. And you quote this as a serious proof to your allegation
Frankly, Canadian military has only two noticeable achievements in its history: surrender to Japanese in HK and being targets of US bomber.
he's an expert on everything and anything to do with China
Even Hu Jintao wouldn't proclaim himself as such. Please be more serious and less comical next time.
You replies are information-less.
Why don't you scramble your wits and stop derailing, and tell us how you identify an oil tank which is for China in IO?
Dismissed as a lazy joke, as reasoned above.
indiapakistanfriendship
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Like I care... Given an option between your word and OOE's word, I will take his word any given sunday
vish
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"you unfortunate bunches;" getting personal are we?
I view sedimentation as the key concern, which hasn't been facftored in as seriously as it should be.
When did I imply otherwise?
The CCP did have plans to invade through Pakistan. PLA cannot take us all-alone without a full-scale war because of the geography of the region and the strengths/weaknesses of both PLA/IA.
Geography favors an attack through Pakistan; an option which the PLA rightly saw as the most feasible.
Tell me why would the Indian Foreign Minister suddenly fly to Biejing if not to diffuse tensions?
Yes, I do quote "this" as a serious proof of allegation (perhaps only according to you) as OoE's arguments seem very logical and aptly fitting with the vents that are well-known.
The PLA is not as great as you make it out to be. Neither am I suggesting that it is "weak."
If the PLA can really "take us out" as easily as you are implying, then why is it that the status quo is retained given PLA's history of hard handedness?
Dude, you really stop getting personal and uber-nationalist.
China's record in front of the Imperial Japanese Army is "wonderful" to say the least.
he's an expert on everything and anything to do with China
Even Hu Jintao wouldn't proclaim himself as such. Please be more serious and less comical next time.
You really ought to read more of his posts to understand what I'm saying.
Mohammed Azizuddin
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India has activated its first listening post on foreign soil that will keep an eye on ship movements in the Indian Ocean. A key monitoring station in northern Madagascar, complete with radars and surveillance gear to intercept maritime communication, was quietly made operational earlier last year as part of Indian Navys strategy to protect the country's sea lanes of commerce.
The monitoring station, under construction since last year when India took on a lease from Antananarivo, will link up with similar naval facilities in Kochi and Mumbai to gather intelligence on foreign navies operating in the region. "A naval asset with limited anchoring facilities has been activated. It will facilitate possible maneuvers by the navy in the region," a ministry official said.
While the station will also monitor piracy and terrorist activities, its primary aim is to counter the growing Chinese influence in the Indian Ocean Region. The station is Indias first in southern Indian Ocean that is gaining importance due to increasing oil traffic across the Cape of Good Hope and the Mozambique Channel route preferred by super tankers.
The US already has a permanent military base with aerial assets and monitoring facilities in Diego Garcia, 1,400 nautical miles north-east of the Madagascar facility.
India is looking at developing another monitoring facility at an atoll it has leased from Mauritius in the near future. While the ministry remains silent, sources say some forward movement has recently been made on the project.
With berthing rights in Oman and monitoring stations in Madagascar, Mauritius, Kochi and Mumbai, the navy will effectively box in the region to protect sea lanes right from Mozambique and the Cape of Good Hope to the Gulf of Oman, an official said.
The navy has already made its presence felt along the African coast with regular warships deployments to monitor piracy and terrorist movements. India also inked an agreement with Mozambique last year to mount periodical maritime patrolling off its vast coast.
The monitoring station, under construction since last year when India took on a lease from Antananarivo, will link up with similar naval facilities in Kochi and Mumbai to gather intelligence on foreign navies operating in the region. "A naval asset with limited anchoring facilities has been activated. It will facilitate possible maneuvers by the navy in the region," a ministry official said.
While the station will also monitor piracy and terrorist activities, its primary aim is to counter the growing Chinese influence in the Indian Ocean Region. The station is Indias first in southern Indian Ocean that is gaining importance due to increasing oil traffic across the Cape of Good Hope and the Mozambique Channel route preferred by super tankers.
The US already has a permanent military base with aerial assets and monitoring facilities in Diego Garcia, 1,400 nautical miles north-east of the Madagascar facility.
India is looking at developing another monitoring facility at an atoll it has leased from Mauritius in the near future. While the ministry remains silent, sources say some forward movement has recently been made on the project.
With berthing rights in Oman and monitoring stations in Madagascar, Mauritius, Kochi and Mumbai, the navy will effectively box in the region to protect sea lanes right from Mozambique and the Cape of Good Hope to the Gulf of Oman, an official said.
The navy has already made its presence felt along the African coast with regular warships deployments to monitor piracy and terrorist movements. India also inked an agreement with Mozambique last year to mount periodical maritime patrolling off its vast coast.
Myth_buster_1
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India targeting China's oil supplies
India's military planners are eyeing a crucial junction of the world which serves as the conduit for 80 per cent of China's imported oil.
The Straits of Malacca, where the Indian Ocean joins the Pacific, is seen as China's Achilles heel. These shipping lanes, vital for Beijing's energy supplies, could be the setting for any future confrontation between India and China.
The two giant powers are longstanding rivals, who share a disputed 2,100-mile border and are waging a diplomatic struggle for influence in Asia. They fought a border war in 1962, which ended in victory for China and left Beijing in control of 16,500 square miles of territory claimed by India.
Both countries are now increasing their defence budgets, with India's military spending rising by an average of 18 per cent in each of the last three years and now exceeding £15 billion.
If these tensions were ever to boil over into war once again, India would probably exploit a crucial advantage. Its navy, which eventually plans to deploy three aircraft carriers and two nuclear-powered attack submarines, would probably seek to close the Straits of Malacca to Chinese shipping. By cutting off the supply of oil, this could cripple China and prove the decisive move in any conflict.
"The most likely flashpoint would be along the border, but ultimately the decision in any war would be on the ocean," said Sheru Thapliyal, a retired Indian general in New Delhi who once commanded a division on the frontier with China.
"The Indian Ocean is where we could use our advantage to the maximum. If you want to choke China, the only way you can choke China is by using naval power."
With China's key vulnerability in mind, India has constructed a naval base within striking distance of the Straits of Malacca at Port Blair on the Andaman Islands. China has countered by installing military facilities of its own, complete with electronic monitoring and eavesdropping devices, on the nearby Coco Islands. These specks of land belong to Burma, a longstanding ally of China.
Beijing is now taking other steps to address what President Hu Jintao has called the country's "Malacca dilemma". With hugely ambitious infrastructure projects, China hopes to bypass the Straits of Malacca and eventually end its dependence on this vulnerable waterway for energy supplies.
On India's western flank, China is helping to build a new port in the Pakistani town of Gwadar. Thrust together by their shared rivalry with India, Pakistan and China are old allies.
Gwadar could eventually provide a base for Chinese warships. Or it may be used as the starting point for a pipeline travelling through Pakistan and carrying oil and gas into China itself. If so, Beijing could import energy from Africa and the Middle East using this route, bypassing the Straits of Malacca.
The same rationale may explain China's actions on India's eastern flank. A new port and pipeline terminal are being constructed at Kyauk Phyu on Burma's island of Ramree. This will be the starting point for a 900-mile pipeline, able to carry oil directly to Kunming, the capital of Yunnan province in southern China.
"They know that we could attempt to choke them completely and that's why they want these ports," said Vijay Kapoor, a retired general in New Delhi and former commandant of the Indian Army War College. "Their aim in all of this is to prevent us from being able to choke them."
China's moves are being closely watched in India, where the military establishment fears that Beijing's plans in Pakistan and Burma amount to a deliberate strategy of "encirclement". If China's navy acquires permanent bases in the Indian Ocean, tension is likely to grow.
But Indian diplomats tend to believe these fears are exaggerated. They believe that China is motivated by nothing more than securing its economic boom and taking normal precautions against unforeseeable events.
India's military planners are eyeing a crucial junction of the world which serves as the conduit for 80 per cent of China's imported oil.
The Straits of Malacca, where the Indian Ocean joins the Pacific, is seen as China's Achilles heel. These shipping lanes, vital for Beijing's energy supplies, could be the setting for any future confrontation between India and China.
The two giant powers are longstanding rivals, who share a disputed 2,100-mile border and are waging a diplomatic struggle for influence in Asia. They fought a border war in 1962, which ended in victory for China and left Beijing in control of 16,500 square miles of territory claimed by India.
Both countries are now increasing their defence budgets, with India's military spending rising by an average of 18 per cent in each of the last three years and now exceeding £15 billion.
If these tensions were ever to boil over into war once again, India would probably exploit a crucial advantage. Its navy, which eventually plans to deploy three aircraft carriers and two nuclear-powered attack submarines, would probably seek to close the Straits of Malacca to Chinese shipping. By cutting off the supply of oil, this could cripple China and prove the decisive move in any conflict.
"The most likely flashpoint would be along the border, but ultimately the decision in any war would be on the ocean," said Sheru Thapliyal, a retired Indian general in New Delhi who once commanded a division on the frontier with China.
"The Indian Ocean is where we could use our advantage to the maximum. If you want to choke China, the only way you can choke China is by using naval power."
With China's key vulnerability in mind, India has constructed a naval base within striking distance of the Straits of Malacca at Port Blair on the Andaman Islands. China has countered by installing military facilities of its own, complete with electronic monitoring and eavesdropping devices, on the nearby Coco Islands. These specks of land belong to Burma, a longstanding ally of China.
Beijing is now taking other steps to address what President Hu Jintao has called the country's "Malacca dilemma". With hugely ambitious infrastructure projects, China hopes to bypass the Straits of Malacca and eventually end its dependence on this vulnerable waterway for energy supplies.
On India's western flank, China is helping to build a new port in the Pakistani town of Gwadar. Thrust together by their shared rivalry with India, Pakistan and China are old allies.
Gwadar could eventually provide a base for Chinese warships. Or it may be used as the starting point for a pipeline travelling through Pakistan and carrying oil and gas into China itself. If so, Beijing could import energy from Africa and the Middle East using this route, bypassing the Straits of Malacca.
The same rationale may explain China's actions on India's eastern flank. A new port and pipeline terminal are being constructed at Kyauk Phyu on Burma's island of Ramree. This will be the starting point for a 900-mile pipeline, able to carry oil directly to Kunming, the capital of Yunnan province in southern China.
"They know that we could attempt to choke them completely and that's why they want these ports," said Vijay Kapoor, a retired general in New Delhi and former commandant of the Indian Army War College. "Their aim in all of this is to prevent us from being able to choke them."
China's moves are being closely watched in India, where the military establishment fears that Beijing's plans in Pakistan and Burma amount to a deliberate strategy of "encirclement". If China's navy acquires permanent bases in the Indian Ocean, tension is likely to grow.
But Indian diplomats tend to believe these fears are exaggerated. They believe that China is motivated by nothing more than securing its economic boom and taking normal precautions against unforeseeable events.
lamayuru
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WRT all the maps and routes drawn for alternate supply lines for China, I have a few questions:
1. Russia has a lot of oil, so why doesn't China get its oil from there? Rather than going all the way to East Asia/Africa?
2. What %age of Chinese energy is met by domestic production and what is imported?
1. Russia has a lot of oil, so why doesn't China get its oil from there? Rather than going all the way to East Asia/Africa?
2. What %age of Chinese energy is met by domestic production and what is imported?
DesiGuy
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Exactly That is the difference between India and USA relations and China and Pakistan relations!!
India will never go to war, because of USA, BUT Pakistan will surely do that, AND if Pakistan did not do that, China will stare at Pakistan and tell them to attack.
In result, Pakistan will attack on India.
BUT in case of India, USA can never force India to attack on China or Pakistan, because India has the power to make it's own decisions UNLIKE Pakistan, which is puppet of USA as well as China. (espically Pakistani Politicians).
SinoIndusFriendship
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Again I warn against throwing stones in a glass house.
India imports roughly 90% of its oil & gas needs.
India imports roughly 90% of its oil & gas needs.
Again I warn against throwing stones in a glass house.
India imports roughly 90% of its oil & gas needs.
We dont have any major naval power in the neighbourhood you forgot about that.so it is not the case for them
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