IAF Mirage 2000 Upgrade Slowed By Weapons

[sancho]

How can u say IAF preferred Mirage2000-5 over Mig29SMT?Any link?

French sacrificed Mirage for Rafale and now they are getting benifit.

Because that's what they wanted and stated from the start:

IAF keen on acquiring Mirage 2000-5 fighters

September 25, 1999

The Indian Air Force is keen on acquiring Mirage 2000-5 multi-role fighters, but no final decision has been taken yet, IAF sources said, pointing out that serious negotiations were yet to take place.

Air Chief Marshal A Y Tipnis, who is in France on an official visit, is expected to fly a Mirage 2000-5 during his stay. However, sources at Air Headquarters said no negotiations would take place during the chief's visit...

..."We are not saying we have decided on the Mirage 2000-5, but, of course, it is a fighter plane that is preferred by us," officials said and hinted that the IAF may want to acquire two or three squadrons.

Rediff On The NeT: IAF keen on acquiring Mirage 2000-5 fighters

Indian Air Force to purchase 200 medium fighter jets

2005-11-22

India will increase the number of Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) it plans to buy to 200, opening the door for more than one supplier, said Air Force and Ministry of Defence officials...

...Defence Ministry sources said it will be difficult for the government to choose among the four vendors because political and strategic considerations must be weighed in addition to technical factors.

The sources noted that the move to buy up to 200 MMRCAs would certainly ease the governments burden, as more then one type of MMRCA could be selected.

They said the Air Force favors the French Mirage 2000-5 aircraft, but cannot ignore the firm from Russia, which is the largest supplier of arms and equipment to the Indian Defense Forces.

Indian Air Force to purchase 200 medium fighter jets | India Defence

Why isn't the HAL Tejas part of the MRCA push?

Monday, March 05, 2007

...When the IAF first put forth its requirement for 100-odd fighters in the 1990s, it had unequivocally and candidly said it wanted 100-odd Mirage-2000-5s. Extrapolating this to form what was the IAF's unhindered initial requirement, the IAF clearly wanted a good chunky number of light multirole fighters. The Mirage's performance at Kargil gave the IAF the much needed ammo to fuel recommendations of a single vendor buyout from Dassault...

Livefist: Why isn't the HAL Tejas part of the MRCA push?

ANALYSIS: Factors That Should Determine The MMRCA

Saturday, November 06, 2010


...Our decision must be guided by two basic factors: that nearly a decade has gone past from the time that IAF was looking for a 'Mirage 2000' type to fill the slot that has come to be described as the M-MRCA...

...However, the choice that comes closest to the 'medium' multi-role aircraft that the IAF has been seeking since a decade ago (the Mirage-2000 type) is the Swedish Gripen IN which has maximum and empty weights at around 17,000 kg and 7,000 kg respectively, almost equal to that of the Mirage-2000.

Livefist: ANALYSIS: Factors That Should Determine The MMRCA


Not to forget that IAF tried in between even to get 2nd hand Mirage 2000-5s from Qatar and not new, or 2nd hand Migs, because they never wanted addtional, or new Migs for the obvious reasons.

 

[luckyyy]

Not to forget that IAF tried in between even to get 2nd hand Mirage 2000-5s from Qatar and not new, or 2nd hand Migs, because they never wanted addtional, or new Migs for the obvious reasons.

obvious reasons , what reason other then that the 2nd hand Migs were coming cheap ...

 

[sancho]

Yes that's true but the MMRCA (MRCA as it was known then) had been designed because the IAF was looking for a something that was not Russian. If we wanted Mig-35 we could get it just like that (as it is an upgrade of Mig-29 I won't be surprised if we still get them as upgrades)

It was only after the Mig-35 prototype launch at Aero India did we realize how serious the Russians were about selling us the plane. And soon after the FGFA JV became official. Bet the Russians were told in advance they won't succeed.

Also the reason Mirage wouldn't succeed in MMRCA is because we got Tejas which is very close to the Mirage.

We will get the Mig 35 upgrades, but in future when they are fully developed for the Mig 29K / KUB.
The Mig 35 prototype you mean was just the older Mig 29 M/ M2 (that they fielded in the initial MRCA competition) with a new paint job, nothing new and only because they want to sell the fighter, it doesn't meant that IAF wants it right?
The delays of Tejas were even the reason why a MRCA was needed, so they searched for a fighter in the medium class, that is easy and fast to induct and the Mirage 2000-5 were the perfect option.

obvious reasons , what reason other then that the 2nd hand Migs were coming cheap ...

- high operational costs
- low quality
- spare problems
- overdependance on Russia
...
...
...

 

[DacterSaab]

The delays of Tejas were even the reason why a MRCA was needed, so they searched for a fighter in the medium class, that is easy and fast to induct and the Mirage 2000-5 were the perfect option.

The way i heard it 1 of the factors why Mirage may have been withdrawn was because it would not have succeeded should the Tejas be good enough.
Also it must be remembered that Dassault provided consultation in LCA design.
Tejas closely resembles the Mirage and has many design features in common.
The closure of Mirage production will also help sales of LCA.

 

[luckyyy]

- high operational costs
- low quality
- spare problems
- overdependance on Russia
...
...
...

so , these were according to you, the obvious reason IAF bought 2nd hand Migs and not the 2nd hand Mirages?

 

[tariqkhan18]

The deal for the weapons should have been made along with the upgrade to avoid further delays. Why IAF is not hurrying this process is beyond me.

 

[sancho]

The deal for the weapons should have been made along with the upgrade to avoid further delays. Why IAF is not hurrying this process is beyond me.

Depends on which weapons they want and if they evaluate them in dedicated trials, or competitions For example there were news that MBDA/Sagem is proposing AASM PGM for the Mirage upgrade, while the Israelis offer SPICE PGM and IAF might has to evaluate them first. Also there is an RFI out for standoff weapons, where MBDA Scalp/Storm Shadow could be interesting, which could be used from Mirage 2000, or Rafale / EF (in the Storm Shadow version) in the MMRCA as well. One reason I strongly believe that MMRCA is related to deep strikes as well and the upg Mirage will be the only fighter other then them and below MKI that has cruise missile capability.

 

[tvsram1992]

Depends on which weapons they want and if they evaluate them in dedicated trials, or competitions For example there were news that MBDA/Sagem is proposing AASM PGM for the Mirage upgrade, while the Israelis offer SPICE PGM and IAF might has to evaluate them first. Also there is an RFI out for standoff weapons, where MBDA Scalp/Storm Shadow could be interesting, which could be used from Mirage 2000, or Rafale / EF (in the Storm Shadow version) in the MMRCA as well. One reason I strongly believe that MMRCA is related to deep strikes as well and the upg Mirage will be the only fighter other then them and below MKI that has cruise missile capability.

Rafale/Mki's are long range strike aircrafts. Mirages will be used at borders and less distances.

 

[koushik]

Depends on which weapons they want and if they evaluate them in dedicated trials, or competitions For example there were news that MBDA/Sagem is proposing AASM PGM for the Mirage upgrade, while the Israelis offer SPICE PGM and IAF might has to evaluate them first. Also there is an RFI out for standoff weapons, where MBDA Scalp/Storm Shadow could be interesting, which could be used from Mirage 2000, or Rafale / EF (in the Storm Shadow version) in the MMRCA as well. One reason I strongly believe that MMRCA is related to deep strikes as well and the upg Mirage will be the only fighter other then them and below MKI that has cruise missile capability.

yes the Mirage-2000-5 uses the AM-39 Exocet Cruise Missile.

 

[sancho]

yes the Mirage-2000-5 uses the AM-39 Exocet Cruise Missile.

Exocet is an anti ship missile, the French counterpart to Harpoon. The Cruise missile on the pic is the Scalp!

 

[koushik]

Exocet is an anti ship missile, the French counterpart to Harpoon. The Cruise missile on the pic is the Scalp!

The Exocet partially fills up as a cruise missile.

 

[RPK]

‘Mirage deal will open after Cabinet clearance’

‘Mirage deal will open after Cabinet clearance’ | Deccan Chronicle

India’s proposed $2.1 billion defence deal with France for upgradation of the Indian Air Force’s Mirage-2000 fighter aircraft fleet will be placed before the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) for clearance very soon, top defence sources have indicated. Sources expressed confidence that the deal would be cleared very soon.

Sources also said that the process for acquisition of 22 attack copters for the IAF is in the final stages and two vendors have been shortlisted. The IAF is in the process of modernising its force and acquiring new aircraft to give it a combat edge over its adversaries.
Meanwhile, IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik said on Thursday evening that the IAF would increase its force levels in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. India has been placing emphasis in recent times on strengthening security of its island chains. In another development, the chief of Vietnam’s Navy is scheduled to visit India soon.
India is likely to offer naval assistance to Vietnam in the field of training and capacity-building. India and Vietnam have traditionally had close ties. Incidentally, Vietnam too fought a border war with China in 1979.
The Indian Navy too is also acquiring new platforms, including ships and submarines, to safeguard the Indian mainland as well as the country’s island chains.

 

[sudhir007]

 

[brational]

2.1 b is goin to be a bad investment as the service life of the Mirage cant be enhanced beyond 8-10 years after upgrades imo. the money should be spent on LCA..

 

[Jon Snow]

2.1 b is goin to be a bad investment as the service life of the Mirage cant be enhanced beyond 8-10 years after upgrades imo. the money should be spent on LCA..

lca doesnt need more money right now, no drdo/hal scientist has complained of lack of funds in the recent past, pumping in more money wont change much