How many years will it take for China to add another India's nominal GDP? 3, 4 or 5?

[Dungeness]

India now considers $1 daily income as middle class so India can have bigger middle class than China

Well, the retail total 100:16; outbound tourism 100M: 16M; outbound spending 138B:13.8B, speak volume.

I don't have figures that are the latest but the income tax starts at $4500-5000 dollars annual for a family.That is the income group that pays taxes and is considered as mid of the middle class.Those below are seen as lower middle class.Factor in average family sizes of 4-6 and you get anywhere between 2.5-4 dollars per day to be considered comfortably middle class.

97% of India doesn't pay income taxes- another tid bit.

I think in China tax threshold is RMB3500 per month or $6600 per year for individual. Chinese member here may know better. @AndrewJin

 

[AndrewJin]

$4500-5000 dollars annual for a family.That is the income group that pays taxes and is considered as mid of the middle class.

Then nearly all Chinese is middle class.....

Well, the retail total 100:16; outbound tourism 100M: 16M; outbound spending 138B:13.8B, speak volume.




I think in China tax threshold is RMB3500 per month or $6600 per year for individual. Chinese member here may know better. @AndrewJin

3500yuan（$550) per person for individual.
(after paying 5 insurances and housing fund)

 

[Nilgiri]

So now the CCCP trolls have moved on from failing to provide evidence that consumption of everything is 10 times to loudly claiming that India considers >$1 daily income as middle class (without providing any serious source of where India has claimed this).

Look we know that China is ahead of India economically OK? But India has been improving and now will step on the accelerator pedal in the next 10 or so years.

As for the sizes of our middle classes back in 2011, here you go:

China’s middle class surges, while India’s lags behind | Pew Research Center

But things would have already changed even further in India by now (2015) and things will only improve as time goes by.

Its not like India is relatively stuck like it was before 1991.

Basically India's middle class size is about 10 years behind China's at the time of 2011.

It is very heartening to see what just 18% of people in "Middle income" level has done for China in the recent years.

India has just started to push people from "low income" into "middle income" so there is a long way to go for us.

But making ludicrous claims that China's households are consuming 10 times Indian households is just as stupid as the Indian trolls claiming India as an economic superpower. You are all trolls in the end! Why not try have a civilised, rational conversation for once?

 

[AndrewJin]

Well, the retail total 100:16; outbound tourism 100M: 16M; outbound spending 138B:13.8B, speak volume.




I think in China tax threshold is RMB3500 per month or $6600 per year for individual. Chinese member here may know better. @AndrewJin

2015 Allianz wealth report
Around two-thirds of the global wealth middle class are now recruited from Asia,
and 85% of them hail from China.

 

[Yizhi]

So now the CCCP trolls

Buddy the CCCP's been gone for 25 years, I don't think @AndrewJin is Russian, no?

CCP or CPC, either one would work.

 

[Nilgiri]

Buddy the CCCP's been gone for 25 years, I don't think @AndrewJin is Russian, no?

CCP or CPC, either one would work.

OK your point is well taken. There is a Central committee of communist party (China)...which I have shortened to CCCP since it makes it easy to remember (since I have got used to the Soviet one).

I will try use CCP...since its one less C.

You avatar pic is hillarious lol.

 

[Jacob Martin]

I guess you are posting on this forum with a device paid with PPP dollars

Whatever man....if speaking rubbish and then adding a silly smiley at the end of it was substitute for actually knowing something then you are right I guess...

Don't waste your time here. They may realise when the effects of the infrastructure bubble and associated NPA% start to have a real negative impact on their economy down the line thats going to make the Japanese recession look like a walk in the picnic (given their much higher income/development + political system when it hit).

Till then they are gonna gobble up the CCCP propaganda and whatever international media backs it up. Anything that doesn't or even diminishes it in some way is plainly wrong.

Don't question the Mao philosophy!

I mean World Bank data such as household consumption:

Household final consumption expenditure per capita (constant 2005 US$) | Data | Table

clearly gives you an idea how much their infrastructure bubble is consuming.

I mean I cant see the Chinese household consuming 10 times the amount of everything that an Indian household does on the back of those World Bank figures, can you?

Sometimes I really wonder about these China trolls.

Look where cars are headed now (will the trend last?):

China Car Sales Driven Lower by Slowing Economy - WSJ



I'm not seeing 10 times like your dear comrade was claiming....and the gap will only narrow in the coming 5 - 10 years.

Their cause is also being helped by some really confused numbers that keep coming out of IMF/World Bank/CIA. considering no one believes their numbers, maybe the asterisk mark against Chinese numbers should be bigger. There is another thread posted recently on PDF where some CPC propagandist claims that Chinese debt-to-GDP is around 40%. Whereas the actual figure is between 207-282 (no one can be sure). The Chinese are upping the stakes in the propaganda game as the moment of comeuppance nears. I am guessing that a major internal debt write-off is around the corner.

 

[Nilgiri]

Whatever man....if speaking rubbish and then adding a silly smiley at the end of it was substitute for actually knowing something then you are right I guess...

It is just a daily ritual for the trolls to make their miserable lives a bit better for them.

My only reason for responding to them is that hopefully any reasonable passer-bys to such threads will learn some balanced information and also friendly, respectable Chinese members like @Yizhi and @Chinese Bamboo actually give a good insight or an interesting exchange.

Their cause is also being helped by some really confused numbers that keep coming out of IMF/World Bank/CIA. considering no one believes their numbers, maybe the asterisk mark against Chinese numbers should be bigger. There is another thread posted recently on PDF where some CPC propagandist claims that Chinese debt-to-GDP is around 40%. Whereas the actual figure is between 207-282 (no one can be sure). The Chinese are upping the stakes in the propaganda game as the moment of comeuppance nears. I am guessing that a major internal debt write-off is around the corner.

I have been to China and I personally think yes a lot of what they claim/say is definitely true to some extent. But you are right that they are also hiding some ominous details and nearly all large economies are all somewhat guilty of doing this to some degree on purpose or accident (just by their sheer size they have enough hinter-space to do so and get away with it for some time or even indefinitely for whatever reason). Now whether this will cause some massive negativity in China is something uncertain...I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[Abotani]

Whatever man....if speaking rubbish and then adding a silly smiley at the end of it was substitute for actually knowing something then you are right I guess..

Part in bold is your brhaviour not mine.I asked a simple question.Do you spend your PPP income to buy the device you are posting on this forum with?Let's assume your device is worth $500 dollars on the retail market in USA and since PPP advantage to India is 2.-3 times,did you pay anywhere between 167-249 dollars for your device?Since you know PPP magically lowers the expenditures of some countries.
Let me answer that for you- no.For PPP is more or less an imaginary benchmark,applicable mainly to the labour expenditure differences across different countries.In other words,the less expensive basic stuff in third world is mainly due to their low labour costs

Then nearly all Chinese is middle class.....

Those earning lower are tagged as lower middle class,so the bar is even lower.

 

[Jacob Martin]

Do you spend your PPP income to buy the device you are posting on this forum with?

Yes, I am paying in PPP. The cost of this laptop is included in PPP calculations. The cost of electronic items varies from country to country. You should read more.

 

[Abotani]

Yes, I am paying in PPP. The cost of this laptop is included in PPP calculations. The cost of electronic items varies from country to country. You should read more.

So do enlighten the world on that.I mean most people in India pay the same price as other people do in different countries.In fact,more expensive devices such as iphones are more expensive in India as compared to US.

So let me get this-If I buy a laptop for 1500 dollars in US,in India I can buy it for as low as 500 dollars because of PPP advantage?

 

[Jacob Martin]

So do enlighten the world on that.I mean most people in India pay the same price as other people do in different countries.In fact,more expensive devices such as iphones are more expensive in India as compared to US.

So let me get this-If I buy a laptop for 1500 dollars in US,in India I can buy it for as low as 500 dollars because of PPP advantage?

Firstly, there is a service component to every good that is sold. So you cannot assume that since it is an imported good its selling price will be the same across all countries. Secondly, Iphones are an exception. Barring goods with low elasticity such as Iphones, the price differential of electronic goods would depend upon how latest the model is. So in a country which receives the latest model first, the previous generation of electronics will be cheaper than in a country where the latest generation reaches later. For every US, there is a Pakistan. India sits somewhere in the middle.

 

[Abotani]

Firstly, there is a service component to every good that is sold. So you cannot assume that since it is an imported good its selling price will be the same across all countries. Secondly, Iphones are an exception. Barring goods with low elasticity such as Iphones, the price differential of electronic goods would depend upon how latest the model is. So in a country which receives the latest model first, the previous generation of electronics will be cheaper than in a country where the latest generation reaches later. For every US, there is a Pakistan. India sits somewhere in the middle.

Now let's get this sorted out.PPP is more or less taking a basket of products and services and comparing their aggregate costs in different countries.It seems like a fine way of measurement until two things crop out-
1-Decline in quality: While a meal,taxi,massage etc etc may cost you less due to the low labour costs in third world countries,there is a sharp drop in quality to make up for the "cheapness".As soon as you start to set the bar higher the costs shoot up and there is no price advantage left to speak of.In some cases,the products and services may get far more expensive.So when one balances the reduced cost but lack in qulaity,the PPP benchmark is inherently flawed as it fails to account for the difference in quality of same product across different countries.

2-PPP is useless for purchase of manufactured products and services requiring expensive infra and highly skilled labour: The main reason why countries score higher in PPP is because the lower labour costs drag down the price of many products and services at a disadvantage mentioned above.But as soon as it is a service or product requiring highly trained labour and extensive resources to produce,the PPP advantage goes out the window.In many ways,the lack of the mentioned two things in third world countries even makes products and services far more expensive than the developed world.So the PPP advantage is mainly for basic needs like food,clothing and untrained and unskilled labour.
Case in point-manufactured goods and their costs in India versus those imported from China.A classic case is the Indian toy industry.Toys made in India are of an inferior quality and more expensive as compared to ones imported from PRC even after the costs of shipping and paying sky high customs and excise.The Chinese toys are of a superior build and more effective pricing.Same case for almost every other service or product requiring highly skilled labour and infra.

BTW-If US and Pakistan were considered two poles,China would be the middle ( for now).India is right there with Pakistan a snail's pace ahead but more or less the same.

I see and so does everyone how carefully you avoided a very simple question as it blows several holes in your facetious arguments.

"So let me get this-If I buy a laptop for 1500 dollars in US,in India I can buy it for as low as 500 dollars because of PPP advantage?"

Let me come at you another way.Say a gallon of gasoline costs $3 dollars in US.Can I buy the same quantity in India for $1.Since you know PPP??

 

[Jacob Martin]

"So let me get this-If I buy a laptop for 1500 dollars in US,in India I can buy it for as low as 500 dollars because of PPP advantage?"

Let me come at you another way.Say a gallon of gasoline costs $3 dollars in US.Can I buy the same quantity in India for $1.Since you know PPP??

A) gasoline and laptop are a small part of my particular basket of goods and services B) the price of both varies from country to country depending on service component, government subsidies (Saudi Arabia and oil subsidy), C) I watch a movie in a multiplex and have a lavish meal for two with drinks for less than $100. Try doing that in the US.

 

[Abotani]

A) gasoline and laptop are a small part of my particular basket of goods and services B) the price of both varies from country to country depending on service component, government subsidies (Saudi Arabia and oil subsidy), C) I watch a movie in a multiplex and have a lavish meal for two with drinks for less than $100. Try doing that in the US.

But you see-
A- Gasoline/petroleum is the price determining item of this age.Any item and it's price are hugely impacted by the price at the pump and hence it's hardly " very small".
B-So do tell us how both vary?Let me answer that.Both are more expensive in India.Hence,PPP advantage is more of a disadvantage
C-Further illustrates my point.A huge part of cost in constructing that multiplex was labour.That is dirt cheap and untrained in India.That lavish meal?Most probably made and served by people who don't wash or bathe their hands or their body often using materials procured at dirt cheap prices at whole sale from some poor farmer who has barely anything.Such people usually don't even need a school diploma to be at their jobs in India.So not very "highly trained or skilled".
As I said,lower labour costs and lack of quality.

Here as both I and of course,unwittingly you, have demonstrated PPP is useful for measuring the poverty levels as poor people usually have one requirement-food.PPP is very useful for that i.e, to measur poverty and the prices for basic needs like food and water.
however as soon as one moves up the ladder a bit,the PPP advantage starts disappearing and in many ways turn into a disadvantage.

What you seem very anxious to highlight the attention on the products which benefit from a PPP measurement i.e, food and enough things just to keep breathing.However the focus of this thread is the middle class and it's lifestyles and the associated expenditures.Here,PPP doesn't exist for most intents and purposes and that is the reason I asked you the price that you paid for your computing device.If anyone has noticed ( which we have) you still haven't posted the prices