how many years it took to build tejas?? lets settle the issue once for all

[Emmie]

Hahaha...ask mian nawaz sharif...hahahaha..m serious though.

Hahahahah.. And since when Nawaz Sharif has became an aircraft expert? How come he has access to such fine details?

A layman is not professional my dear friend..

BTW he tried being sarcastic there..

 

[Killswitch]

The 21's are over 30 years old, lack spares, and the pilots using them often lack IJT and AJT training.

The Mig 21 did its job well, the LCA has failed to replace it on time.

The work with France and Israel may make a better engine and radar, but it is coming too late.

 

[timetravel]

The 21's are over 30 years old, lack spares, and the pilots using them often lack IJT and AJT training.

The Mig 21 did its job well, the LCA has failed to replace it on time.

The work with France and Israel may make a better engine and radar, but it is coming too late.

LCA is not complete. U can say the programme is delayed. But how can u say LCA has falied when it is not complete??

surely LCA will be better then J-10, J-11b like fighters when it will be inducted. So LCA programme is successful but it is delayed.

u cant blame a fighter when it is not even complete. A failure would be if LCA is not able to perform upto the standards expected of it and for which it is designed, which is not the case.

 

[Black Widow]

o my my... within one page you guys started trill war. why you guys made it vs thread? @ topic: lca started from 1993 , in 19 years it achived ioc. i see it as good move. if you see the first thread you can find tht 80s was spent in infrastructure development. where as 90s was focused on plane design. we can not add ADA foundation timeline to lca timeline.

 

[Black Widow]

Good, LCA MK2 should be similar to JF-17 Block 1 when LCA comes out in 2017 and by then JF-17 should have 3 Blocks.

this is the post which spoiled the thred. ppl shuddered read the topic of thrd before posting nonsense

 

[karan21]

LCA is not complete. U can say the programme is delayed. But how can u say LCA has falied when it is not complete??

surely LCA will be better then J-10, J-11b like fighters when it will be inducted. So LCA programme is successful but it is delayed.

u cant blame a fighter when it is not even complete. A failure would be if LCA is not able to perform upto the standards expected of it and for which it is designed, which is not the case.

loll its defnitely not a fail proogram. for sure its a massive succes. i have read in some drdo articles that the pv1 of amca will be first flown on tejas avionics and only airframe will be new, so this plane is going long way in our future. anyways j11 and tejas have no comparison, maybe in avionivs both are equally advanced, when when it will come to range, weapon carrying, manueverability j11 stands way ahead as it is a complete copy of su 17. tejas is better than jf17 and mk2 will be close to j10 as both are based on delta wing and similiar designs.

 

[21 Dec 2012]

Same can be applied to him no? Does this guy know me? Has he debated with me, what justifies the fan boy tag?
He could a more qualified or knowledgeable person sure.... He could... but it's rather foolish to come to such a conclusion without knowing a damn thing about what he's talking about.

He posted a conclusion over thin air... then went and admitted that he doesn't know much about it and he has the nerve to call others fanboys.



Never claimed to be an expert, only said that the guy was foolish in coming to such a conclusion without knowing a damn thing about the JF-17.

In all honesty, I only know for sure out of those parameters that the power output is 550W.
I don't have the information available to comment on the rest.

But since you've challenged me, why not provide those specs? Also system bandwidth, PRF, scan rate, Antenna beam width as well as gain and Receiver Noise Figure.

OOOOOOOHH
Ok I accept
The Fanboy tag was uncalled for and really not neccesary. It's just that I am sick and tired of people claiming to know this and that about JF-17 without the real plane even being unveiled. The two guesses I made were just in-general comments.
LCA's hybrid EL/M has a antenna of 650 mm which should be around the same if not larger than that of JF-17.
ACIG Exclusives : Aero India 2005 : Chapter 4
Bigger antenna means smaller bandwidth which means better target rez. As far as it's range is concerned, various sources say that it's 150 km,
http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/FILES/6/27546.pdf
which is much more than KLJ-7's 105 km for 5m^2. It will be increased upto some extent. How much will it be can only be confirmed only after the launch of Block-2.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_44d3OT-xI...Azw/6KlQvpDYNfY/s1600/JF-17+Thunder's+MMR.JPG
But one thing can be said Elta has made some good radars over the years which are used by various countries. They also get inputs from U.S.A whereas Chinese radars are still very much doubtable.
Generally speaking, most of the info. provided by the manufacturers such as look-up range, look-down range, peak power, average power, PRF aren't really correct.
A lot of it is 'black'[classified] and I speak this from personal experience. Though I am not a professional or an expert whatsoever. Read this if you have more time
The Naval Institute guide to world naval weapons systems, 1997-1998 - Norman Friedman - Google Books

 

[karan21]

OOOOOOOHH
Ok I accept
The Fanboy tag was uncalled for and really not neccesary. It's just that I am sick and tired of people claiming to know this and that about JF-17 without the real plane even being unveiled. The two guesses I made were just in-general comments.
LCA's hybrid EL/M has a antenna of 650 mm which should be around the same if not larger than that of JF-17.
ACIG Exclusives : Aero India 2005 : Chapter 4
Bigger antenna means smaller bandwidth which means better target rez. As far as it's range is concerned, various sources say that it's 150 km,
http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/FILES/6/27546.pdf
which is much more than KLJ-7's 105 km for 5m^2. It will be increased upto some extent. How much will it be can only be confirmed only after the launch of Block-2.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_44d3OT-xI...Azw/6KlQvpDYNfY/s1600/JF-17+Thunder's+MMR.JPG
But one thing can be said Elta has made some good radars over the years which are used by various countries. They also get inputs from U.S.A whereas Chinese radars are still very much doubtable.
Generally speaking, most of the info. provided by the manufacturers such as look-up range, look-down range, peak power, average power, PRF aren't really correct.
A lot of it is 'black'[classified] and I speak this from personal experience. Though I am not a professional or an expert whatsoever. Read this if you have more time
The Naval Institute guide to world naval weapons systems, 1997-1998 - Norman Friedman - Google Books

kindly summarize all this u said in one line

 

[deckingraj]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^6

God know's why people have so much itch in getting into a d1ck measuring contest....A thread solely started to discuss timelines of Tejas is now turning into a troll war....There are many threads where JF17 has been compared with each and every plane of IAF...Those who want to provide their inputs can simply go there...

Some key points
- It is western and thus bound to be good is not true...
- It is chinese and thus bound to be bad is not true either...
- It is Indian and thus bound to be a failure/too little too late is an epic face palm...


OT - Considering the real development of Tejas started somewhere in 1993-1995 and considering the sanctions of 99 i must say we have lot to be proud off...Apart from that there are lot of key learning lessons for us...One in my eyes is - We should be ambitious but not too ambitious....Combining both jet-engine and Tejas program was surely a mistake on our part...Making a jet engine is not an easy ball game...b/w what i really liked about this program is that irrespective of the delays the IAF did not lower down its expectations...Kaveri was delinked from the project and in my eyes a right move....There is hell lot to learn in other deparments especially the avionics...

 

[karan21]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^6

God know's why people have so much itch in getting into a d1ck measuring contest....A thread solely started to discuss timelines of Tejas is now turning into a troll war....There are many threads where JF17 has been compared with each and every plane of IAF...Those who want to provide their inputs can simply go there...

Some key points
- It is western and thus bound to be good is not true...
- It is chinese and thus bound to be bad is not true either...
- It is Indian and thus bound to be a failure/too little too late is an epic face palm...


OT - Considering the real development of Tejas started somewhere in 1993-1995 and considering the sanctions of 99 i must say we have lot to be proud off...Apart from that there are lot of key learning lessons for us...One in my eyes is - We should be ambitious but not too ambitious....Combining both jet-engine and Tejas program was surely a mistake on our part...Making a jet engine is not an easy ball game...b/w what i really liked about this program is that irrespective of the delays the IAF did not lower down its expectations...Kaveri was delinked from the project and in my eyes a right move....There is hell lot to learn in other deparments especially the avionics...

tru kaveri development should not have been with tejas, considering but now we can make our own engines. we gained a lot in engine development and now we r more than capable to lead kaveri- schema joint venture. it will surely be used for mk2 and amca.

 

[deckingraj]

tru kaveri development should not have been with tejas, considering but now we can make our own engines. we gained a lot in engine development and now we r more than capable to lead kaveri- schema joint venture. it will surely be used for mk2 and amca.

I have no doubts in my mind over that....There is a saying knowledge never go waste....

 

[Jungibaaz]

OOOOOOOHH
Ok I accept
The Fanboy tag was uncalled for and really not neccesary. It's just that I am sick and tired of people claiming to know this and that about JF-17 without the real plane even being unveiled.

And you're not the only one, both optimists and pessimists alike don't do much help with their speculations.

The two guesses I made were just in-general comments.
LCA's hybrid EL/M has a antenna of 650 mm which should be around the same if not larger than that of JF-17.
ACIG Exclusives : Aero India 2005 : Chapter 4

According to Jane's and NRIET... some sources say that the KLJ-7 is based on N010 Zhuk with a 680mm antenna. The two are definitely comparable.

As far as it's range is concerned, various sources say that it's 150 km,
http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/FILES/6/27546.pdf
which is much more than KLJ-7's 105 km for 5m^2. It will be increased upto some extent. How much will it be can only be confirmed only after the launch of Block-2.

the 105 km range is for 5m^2, the max range could be well above that figure.
I remember seeing a figure well above 200km for a frigate sized target.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_44d3OT-xI...Azw/6KlQvpDYNfY/s1600/JF-17+Thunder's+MMR.JPG
But one thing can be said Elta has made some good radars over the years which are used by various countries. They also get inputs from U.S.A whereas Chinese radars are still very much doubtable.
Generally speaking, most of the info. provided by the manufacturers such as look-up range, look-down range, peak power, average power, PRF aren't really correct.

I'm not doubting EL/M radars, they are good. But please be clear about your criticism of Chinese radars,

 

[DARKY]

the 105 km range is for 5m^2, the max range could be well above that figure.
I remember seeing a figure well above 200km for a frigate sized target.



I'm not doubting EL/M radars, they are good. But please be clear about your criticism of Chinese radars,

105 is probably for Fighter sized target.. which is generally about the size of 5m2... the look down mode is even less at 75km(correct me here If wrong)
Frigates and Destroyers are very large targets on a plane surface of sea.
That Elta-2032(power rating 2-3 KVA/KW) can see sea targets as far as 300km... same for Zhuk ME(power ratings upto 5KW) on mig 29Ks.

 

[LiberalAtheist]

the project took on full course in the mid 80's however economic problems in the early 90's (see 1991 Indian economic reforms for more info) resulted in a cut in funding a loss of several years if that wasn't bad enough the aftermath of the 98 tests resulted in technology embargo which set us back even more since we could have just bought and manufactured any technologies which were easy to assemble

you guys are quick to judge LCA on its shortcomings which of only 3 resulted in its delays
1)radar
2)engine
3)FBW

but as for the other technologies achieved all composite low RCS airframe, Indian glass cockpit and sensor displays, indigenous EW suite Mayavi among others realize that we had no prior experience in fighter technology except for manufacturing fighters from their knock down assembly kits.

the LCA gives India a technological edge we have proven that we can develop 4th generation fighter jets now all that is left to do is to test and evaluate these last 2 LSP aircraft then in 2014 the LCA will get its FOC. not to mention guys LCA MK1 is just the tip of the freakin iceberg MK2 will be a 4.5gen+ fighter with more indigenous technologies except for engine (the AESA radar is being jointly developed with Israel with the EL/M/2052 possibly serving as a base)

the LCA will serve as a good interceptor replacement and a secondary swing role fighter however we must first prove LCA is battle ready by carrying many more tests but fortunately the end of the tunnel is near for this bird.

 

[Black Widow]

This is the topic, Not LCA specification. Please stick to the topic.

Timeline of HAL Tejas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1960s

1969
Indian government accepted the recommendation by its Aeronautics Committee that Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) should design and develop an advanced technology fighter aircraft around a proven engine
[edit]1970s

1975
HAL completed design studies in 1975, but the project fell through due to inability to procure the selected "proven engine" from a foreign manufacturer and unfulfilled IAF requirements
[edit]1980s

1983
DRDO obtained permission to initiate a programme to design and develop a Light Combat Aircraft
1984
Government of India set up Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) in 1984 as the nodal agency for managing and developing the LCA.
1985
IAF submits Air Staff Requirements (ASR) for LCA in October 1985. This was initiated by the then Air Chief Marshal Idris Hassan Latif.
1986
Government allocates 575 crores for the LCA programme.
Programme to develop an indigenous powerplant (engine) was launched at GTRE.
1987
Project definition commenced in October 1987 with French Dassault Aviation as consultants.
1988
Project definition completed in September 1988.
1989
Government review committee expresses confidence in LCA programme. It was decided that the programme will be carried out in two phases.
[edit]1990s

1990
Design of LCA was finalised as a small delta winged relaxed static stability aircraft.
Phase 1 of the development was commenced to create the proof of concept system. Financial problems within India prevented full scale operations from starting.
1993
Full funding started from April 1993 full-scale development work for phase 1 started in June.
1995
First technology demonstrator, TD-1, rolled out on 17 November 1995 and was followed by TD-2 in 1998. However, technical problems in flight control systems and structural deficiencies plagued the prototypes and they remained grounded.
1997
Multi-Mode Radar (MMR) for LCA design work started at HAL’s Hyderabad division and the LRDE.
[edit]2000s

2001
Development assistance sought from Snecma on the Kaveri engine.[1]
4 January - LCA’s maiden flight successfully completed by Technology Demonstrator TD-1, on 2001. Prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee renames LCA as Tejas.
2002
6 June - TD-2 makes a successful maiden flight.
MMR system was reported to be not working as per the criteria laid down in requirements.
2003
25 November - PV-1 makes a successful maiden flight.
2005
1 December - PV-2 makes a successful maiden flight.
2006
13 May - The PV-2 went supersonic for the first time
14 May - The PV-2 went supersonic again, but this time in a weaponised state (i.e., carrying weapons such as missiles and an internal gun).
1 December - The PV-3 flew for the first time for 27 minutes at an altitude of 2.5 km and at a speed of Mach 0.8. The PV-3 was equipped with a more advanced pilot interface, refined avionics and higher control law capabilities compared with the previous versions.
2007


Tejas PV-1 firing an R-73 missile during weapons trials in Goa
25 April - The first Limited Series Production LCA (LSP-1) made its first flight and it reached a speed of Mach 1.1.
PV-2 and PV-3 underwent sea-level trails at INS Rajali Naval Air Station, Arakkonam to study the effects of flying at sea-level, as all earlier trials have been conducted at Bangalore which is 3,000 feet (910 m) above sea-level.[2][3] The reliability of the LCA systems under the hot and humid conditions, as well as low level flight characteristics was tested.[4][5] It is due to this intense flight testing schedule that the LCA was not able to fly at the Paris air show-2007, as was originally planned.[6]
7 September - Tejas Prototype Vehicle (PV-1) made a successful maiden flight with two 800 litre drop tanks.[7][8]
25 October - Tejas PV-1 fired a Vympel R-73 missile for first time. The trials were conducted off the Goa coast at INS Hansa Naval Air Station.[9]
11 December - LITENING targeting pod was successfully tested on Tejas PV-2.[10]
2008


HAL Tejas high-altitude trials at Leh successfully completed by December 2008.
7 February - Tejas Prototype Vehicle (PV-1) made a successful flight powered by fuel from two 800 litre drop tanks. It made a one hour and 24 minute long sortie. On internal fuel LCA can perform a 40-minute sortie.[11]
April - First Flight with HMDS[12]
LCA Tejas prototypes PV-2 & PV-3 underwent hot weather flight trials at Air Force Station, Nagpur from 28 May 2008 to 4 June 2008. The trials were declared successful.
16 June - Tejas second Limited Series Production LCA (LSP-2) made its first flight and it reached a speed of Mach 1.1.
7 November - LCA Prototype Vehicle-3 made first successful night flight.[13]
13 December - PV-3 and LSP-2 completed the high altitude at the Leh air base.[14]
2009
22 January - Tejas completed 1000 flights.[15]
February - the live bombs test were successfully carried out.[16]
October - PV-3 and LSP-2 completed visual target elimination and air-to-ground weapons delivery trials.[17]
26 November - Two seater (Trainer) version of Tejas(PV-5) made its maiden flight on 26 Nov 09.[18]
7 December - Tejas passed flight flutter test diving from an altitude of four kilometers to almost sea level at 900 feet (270 m). Tejas recorded a speed over 1350 km/h. These tests were conducted at INS Hansa, Goa.[19]
15 December - Indian government sanctioned Rs 8,000 crores to begin production of the fighter jet for the Indian Air Force and Indian Navy.[20]
[edit]2010s

2010
23 April - LCA Tejas LSP-3 Makes Maiden Flight. LSP-3 is almost the final configuration including the new air-data computers, Hybrid Multi Mode Radar, new communication and navigation equipment and radar warning receiver. With this the LCA programme has completed 1350 test flights logging about 800 flying hours.[21]
2 June - LCA Tejas LSP-4 Makes Maiden Flight. The flight marks the first time for a Tejas aircraft flying in the configuration that will be finally delivered to the Indian Air Force.[22] In addition to the Hybrid MMR, the aircraft also flew with a functioning Countermeasure Dispensing System [23]
19 November - LCA Tejas LSP-5 Makes Maiden Flight. Goes supersonic in first flight. [24]
2011
10 January - Certification for the Release to Services with assured safety and specified performance for IOC.[25]
26 January - LCA Tejas Participates in the 26 January Republic Day Celebrations by being paraded at New Delhi.