History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

[somsak]

I think Three Kingdom is historic novel. The book is very interesting.

Cartoon version is even better.

 

[Viet]

Its really not that hard when Guangxi and Yunnan are right next door,the other factor is that Chinese dynasties relied on Tusi chieftains who may or may not engage in banditry and shifted their allegiance's constantly.

Vietnamese didn't escape the wrath of the Chinese,why do you think there are so many Chinese invasions of Vietnam?

Vietnamese like any other civilization sought resources,slaves,land etc. it was out of greed not necessity.

I am aware that after victories over Champa and Khmer Kingdoms we made their people to slaves, but the Han?
Sure, I don´t deny Dai Viet wanted to expand territory to the North, too, but never heard that making the Han to slaves?
the thought originates from your wild imagination

 

[NiceGuy]

Cartoon version is even better.

Do u like football bro ?? U 19 VN just defeated U-19 Thailand 1-0 yesterday. . This was a moment when we scored.

 

[Grand Historian]

I am aware that after victories over Champa and Khmer Kingdoms we made their people to slaves, but the Han?
Sure, I don´t deny Dai Viet wanted to expand territory to the North, too, but never heard that making the Han to slaves?
the thought originates from your wild imagination

Again all you PDF Vietnamese whine about the inconvenient truth,go read the actual records and see for yourself how greedy Vietnamese rulers were.

 

[Viet]

Again all you PDF Vietnamese whine about the inconvenient truth,go read the actual records and see for yourself how greedy Vietnamese rulers were.

again, as far as VN history books go, I neither read nor hear such a thing, making the Han to slaves. can you provide source?

 

[xesy]

Again all you PDF Vietnamese whine about the inconvenient truth,go read the actual records and see for yourself how greedy Vietnamese rulers were.

Your "actual records" are either Chinese one or anti-VN. And you always tell us to look at the book, if we disagree with you.

 

[Grand Historian]

Your "actual records" are either Chinese one or anti-VN. And you always tell us to look at the book, if we disagree with you.

What's wrong with Chinese sources?

How laughable, are Western sources anti-Vietnam?

again, as far as VN history books go, I neither read nor hear such a thing, making the Han to slaves. can you provide source?

Well the problem is you can't read Hanzi so how can you read your own history?

Vietnamese took captives during the Song-Ly War as well as other conflicts.

 

[dichoi]

Well the problem is you can't read Hanzi so how can you read your own history?
Vietnamese took captives during the Song-Ly War as well as other conflicts

our history books were written by our historian with Han Zi, has been transfered from Han characters to Quoc Ngu with latin characters (latin alphabets) bro.

In Song-Ly conflict, Đại Việt was being destroyed by Champa, hence it Song emperor would be seaan a good occasion to annex Đại Việt.

Our General Ly Thuong Kiet who known this plan before then he carried out a pre-emptive attack against the Song Dynasty troops. In the ensuing 40-day battle near modern-day Nan Ning, the Đại Việt troops were victorious, capturing the generals of three Song armies.

There was self-defende attack.

 

[Grand Historian]

our history books were written by our historian with Han Zi, has been transfered from Han characters to Quoc Ngu with latin characters (latin alphabets) bro.

Which are notorious for flawed translations,ie Nguyen officials calling themselves Han are distorted.

The veracity of Vietnamese sources are sorely lacking.

 

[dichoi]

Which are notorious for flawed translations,ie Nguyen officials calling themselves Han are distorted.

The veracity of Vietnamese sources are sorely lacking.

you have been misunderstood at all.

"Han - Man" is one "concept" in Han Zi. Generally, it got a meaning of Majority ethnic people and Minority ethnic people or " Kinh-Thượng " in Vietnamese. When officials of Nguyen Dynasty write in book that he is Han, it mean he is Kinh people in ethnic, not Han Chinese. Normaly Han chinese is called as Hua people by Vietnamese.

In our history books were transfered in to Latin Alphabets, It is noted clearly.

 

[xesy]

What's wrong with Chinese sources?

How laughable, are Western sources anti-Vietnam?


Well the problem is you can't read Hanzi so how can you read your own history?

Vietnamese took captives during the Song-Ly War as well as other conflicts.

I don't get it why you would pick up Hanzi reading capability as a must to understand VNese history. It was not a writing that our ancestor developed, rather it was forced on them during the 1000 years Chinese ocuppation. Unlike ancient Japan which chose to adapt to Chinese culture, or ancient Korea which chose to submit, VN was forced to become part of Chinese culture. We are pround to be able to keep our mother tongue, despite all China effort to destroy our culture.

 

[Grand Historian]

you have been misunderstood at all.

"Han - Man" is one "concept" in Han Zi. Generally, it got a meaning of Majority ethnic people and Minority ethnic people or " Kinh-Thượng " in Vietnamese. When officials of Nguyen Dynasty write in book that he is Han, it mean he is Kinh people in ethnic, not Han Chinese. Normaly Han chinese is called as Hua people by Vietnamese.

In our history books were transfered in to Latin Alphabets, It is noted clearly.

You clearly haven't read the original texts,Qing era Chinese were called 清 while the supposed Kinh Vietnamese were labeled 漢.

In Song-Ly conflict, Đại Việt was being destroyed by Champa, hence it Song emperor would be seaan a good occasion to annex Đại Việt.

Our General Ly Thuong Kiet who known this plan before then he carried out a pre-emptive attack against the Song Dynasty troops. In the ensuing 40-day battle near modern-day Nan Ning, the Đại Việt troops were victorious, capturing the generals of three Song armies.

There was self-defende attack.

That's like saying Pearl Harbor was self defense and a preemptive attack against American aggression.

If it was self defense than why did Yongzhou get razed and its inhabitants slain?

I don't get it why you would pick up Hanzi reading capability as a must to understand VNese history. It was not a writing that our ancestor developed, rather it was forced on them during the 1000 years Chinese ocuppation. Unlike ancient Japan which chose to adapt to Chinese culture, or ancient Korea which chose to submit, VN was forced to become part of Chinese culture. We are pround to be able to keep our mother tongue, despite all China effort to destroy our culture.

Your translations are often faulty,ie the Han the Nguyen labeled are called Kinh instead.

Your mother tongue was the result of Le Loi conquering the more Sinicized Red River elite,otherwise you would still be speaking a variant of Chinese today.

Considering how Vietnamese culture is overwhelmingly derived from Sinitic influences and not indigenous ones,and the amount of historical distortions about Chinese history,there is an obsession with China that pervades the atmosphere.

 

[dichoi]

You clearly haven't read the original texts,Qing era Chinese were called 清 while the supposed Kinh Vietnamese were labeled 漢.

What happent with Chinese when Man Qing didn't ruled China ?


In generally chinese immigrant were called "北国之人". As I said before to you, when Vietnamese are stated as " 漢人" it must be undersatood that he is "not barbarian", he is Kinh in ethniccity. It doesn't mean that Vietnamese is Han Chinese.

In the past Kinh people is mostly dominated in Red River Delta. Nguyen Warloard is from Northern Kinh people too, who went to South Vietnam in acording to request of Le Emperor. Later Nguyen Gialong Empiror united Vietnam from South Vietnam, he didn't like to use the "DongKinh" (tonkin) or"kinh" word, because it remind people to Capital of Le Dynasty and Trinh warlords. It is politic threat to him and Nguen Dynasty,

In the same manner when communists Vietnam unified Vietnam 1975, Saigon is changed to Hochi Minh City. It daesn't mean all Ho Chi Ming city residents is related of Ho Chi Ming family.

 

[Grand Historian]

What happent with Chinese when Man Qing didn't ruled China ?


In generally chinese immigrant were called "北国之人". As I said before to you, when Vietnamese are stated as " 漢人" it must be undersatood that he is "not barbarian", he is Kinh in ethniccity. It doesn't mean that Vietnamese is Han Chinese.

In the past Kinh people is mostly dominated in Red River Delta. Nguyen Warloard is from Northern Kinh people too, who went to South Vietnam in acording to request of Le Emperor. Later Nguyen Gialong Empiror united Vietnam from South Vietnam, he didn't like to use the "DongKinh" (tonkin) or"kinh" word, because it remind people to Capital of Le Dynasty and Trinh warlords. It is politic threat to him and Nguen Dynasty,

In the same manner when communists Vietnam unified Vietnam 1975, Saigon is changed to Hochi Minh City. It daesn't mean all Ho Chi Ming city residents is related of Ho Chi Ming family.

Man Qing only existed in the mind of the radical Chinese nationalists of the Republican period,the Qing called themselves Great Qing,Zhongguo etc.

Do realize 漢 was synonymous for Chinese culture ergo the Nguyen were trying to claim Chinese heritage,which is evident by their worship of Chinese sage kings.
The Nguyễn Dynasty’s Miếu Lịch Đại Đế Vương | Le Minh Khai's SEAsian History Blog

Clearly the Nguyen era Vietnamese were Sinophiles and thought themselves to be the successor of the Ming(similar to the Joseon dynasty of Korea).

 

[dichoi]

Man Qing only existed in the mind of the radical Chinese nationalists of the Republican period,the Qing called themselves Great Qing,Zhongguo etc.

Do realize 漢 was synonymous for Chinese culture ergo the Nguyen were trying to claim Chinese heritage,which is evident by their worship of Chinese sage kings.
The Nguyễn Dynasty’s Miếu Lịch Đại Đế Vương | Le Minh Khai's SEAsian History Blog

Clearly the Nguyen era Vietnamese were Sinophiles and thought themselves to be the successor of the Ming(similar to the Joseon dynasty of Korea).

You lie, bro and who is Le Minh Khai, he is troller on internet and critized every things related to Vietnam now.

There is big problem when in the past, Vietnam was forced to use Han Zi chẩracters to writing system by Chinese invader. and Vietnam was influenced with Chinese culture: Confucius.

What is most important thing here in history of Vietnam ? Pls to read what our ancestors said in the past:

南 國 山 河 南 帝 居
截 然 定 分 在 天 書
如 何 逆 虜 來 侵 犯
汝 等 行 看 取 敗 虛

It is core item of Vietnam nationality.

Don't forget that in time of Nguyen Dynasty, our country is called "大南国" in opposite to " 中国 " or " 北国 ".