History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

[Grand Historian]

You lie, bro and who is Le Minh Khai, he is troller on internet and critized every things related to Vietnam now.

There is big problem when in the past, Vietnam was forced to use Han Zi chẩracters to writing system by Chinese invader. and Vietnam was influenced with Chinese culture: Confucius.

What is most important thing here in history of Vietnam ? Pls to read what our ancestors said in the past:

南 國 山 河 南 帝 居
截 然 定 分 在 天 書
如 何 逆 虜 來 侵 犯
汝 等 行 看 取 敗 虛

It is core item of Vietnam nationality.

Don't forget that in time of Nguyen Dynasty, our country is called "大南国" in opposite to " 中国 " or " 北国 ".

He's a scholar named Liam C. Kelly,he's more credible than you or I yet you refuse to refute his points.

He criticizes the rampant nationalism in Vietnamese historiography .

Vietnam became independent then why don't they reject all the Chinese influences?

If you studied classical Chinese the meaning is different.
The Problems with the Bình Ngô đại cáo as a Declaration of Independence | Le Minh Khai's SEAsian History Blog

It doesn't matter what the Nguyen called their country their court dress was modeled after Chinese ones,documents were written in Classical Chinese,attempted to Sinicize minorities,worshiped Chinese sage kings/cultural herores and labeled themselves as Han.

 

[Viet]

You lie, bro and who is Le Minh Khai, he is troller on internet and critized every things related to Vietnam now.

There is big problem when in the past, Vietnam was forced to use Han Zi chẩracters to writing system by Chinese invader. and Vietnam was influenced with Chinese culture: Confucius.

What is most important thing here in history of Vietnam ? Pls to read what our ancestors said in the past:

南 國 山 河 南 帝 居
截 然 定 分 在 天 書
如 何 逆 虜 來 侵 犯
汝 等 行 看 取 敗 虛

It is core item of Vietnam nationality.

Don't forget that in time of Nguyen Dynasty, our country is called "大南国" in opposite to " 中国 " or " 北国 ".

No, Le Minh Khai seems to be a good researcher of history of Vietnam and its interactions with China. I have read some of his blogs. Highly professional written, quotes provided, no trolling seen.

 

[Viet]

Not my fault you are too incompetent to realize that Vietnam provoked China multiple times instead of your nationalist narrative that Chinese wanted to invade Vietnam for no reason.

What do Minnan and Taiwanese Han have to do with Vietnam?

Every single time you run out of arguments you rely on flamebaiting others.


Read books instead of whining to me,why are Vietnamese so upset to find out the truth?

They didn't live in Chinese lands or had descendants that became Chinese the source of these raids were from Vietnam,while the minorities of Guangxi and Yunnan rarely allied invading Vietnamese forces and conducted their own rebellions/raids.

The Ho dynasty had no reason to raid Chinese provinces,as these events transpired before the Tran pretender reached the Ming court as well as Hongwu Emperor proclaiming that Vietnam was one the countries the Ming shouldn't invade.

from the today perspective, one must admit that the Ho committed of major mistake by provoking the Ming. Having angered the Ming emperor to an unacceptable level, leaving him no other choice than to issue an order of the invasion of Vietnam. If Yongle hadn´t decided so, he would have lost face.

Worse, the Ho overestimated the strength of the own army and the defence capability in case of chinese invasion. the Vietnamese defence relied on strongholds without sufficient securing fresh troop replenishment and arms. When the Ming army (with overwhelming number and better firearms) conquered these fortifications and cut off the supplies, Vietnam was lost.

That is a lesson for future Vietnamese generations.

 

[pher]

from the today perspective, one must admit that the Ho committed of major mistake by provoking the Ming. Having angered the Ming emperor to an unacceptable level, leaving him no other choice than to issue an order of the invasion of Vietnam. If Yongle hadn´t decided so, he would have lost face.

Worse, the Ho overestimated the strength of the own army and the defence capability in case of chinese invasion. the Vietnamese defence relied on strongholds without sufficient securing fresh troop replenishment and arms. When the Ming army (with overwhelming number and better firearms) conquered these fortifications and cut off the supplies, Vietnam was lost.

That is a lesson for future Vietnamese generations.

If you can learn the lesson, you are not stupid viets anymore

But you don't, so you repeat the same mistake again and again forever. It is in your DNA. That is why we pound you on a regular basis.

 

[JonAsad]

My question-
Where are the vietnamis who faught amrika?-
From where this submissive lot came from?-

 

[dichoi]

He's a scholar named Liam C. Kelly,he's more credible than you or I yet you refuse to refute his points.

He criticizes the rampant nationalism in Vietnamese historiography .

Vietnam became independent then why don't they reject all the Chinese influences?

If you studied classical Chinese the meaning is different.
The Problems with the Bình Ngô đại cáo as a Declaration of Independence | Le Minh Khai's SEAsian History Blog

It doesn't matter what the Nguyen called their country their court dress was modeled after Chinese ones,documents were written in Classical Chinese,attempted to Sinicize minorities,worshiped Chinese sage kings/cultural herores and labeled themselves as Han.

your comment is funny.

why Holy Roma Empire is collapsed, many country is became independent state but culture heritage of Roma is not fully rejected ?

and now countries in mainland of Europa are shared many common culture characters, bloodline and identities.

Turn to history blog of Le Minh Khue. He is very funny too, when he commented about word 吳 " Ngô " in 平吳大誥 "Binh Ngo Dai Cao".

吳 or Đông Ngô 东吳 or 東吳 国 in 三国 era, when 漢 Dynasty of China ís going to collapsed. The word 吳 " Ngô " is referred to China from - 220 BCE.

My question-
Where are the vietnamis who faught amrika?-
From where this submissive lot came from?-

Communists Vietnam's or VC fought against American. Socialist countries helped Vietnam. The biggest submission is from Soviet Union, second is China.

China is reduced to stop support from 1968 when china is tried to normalisation diplomacy with USA.

 

[EastSea]

@dichoi

Pls to ignore this Chinese boy, he will cry to Mod to ban you soon.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

from the today perspective, one must admit that the Ho committed of major mistake by provoking the Ming. Having angered the Ming emperor to an unacceptable level, leaving him no other choice than to issue an order of the invasion of Vietnam. If Yongle hadn´t decided so, he would have lost face.

Worse, the Ho overestimated the strength of the own army and the defence capability in case of chinese invasion. the Vietnamese defence relied on strongholds without sufficient securing fresh troop replenishment and arms. When the Ming army (with overwhelming number and better firearms) conquered these fortifications and cut off the supplies, Vietnam was lost.

That is a lesson for future Vietnamese generations.

You guys don't need to learn the mistakes at all.

What I heard from you guys is 1979, then 1979, again 1979.

What's matter with 1979? The war happened on your soil, and your cities and villages were burning down. Who has suffered the biggest loss?

 

[Rechoice]

your comment is funny.
why Holy Roma Empire is collapsed, many country is became independent state but culture heritage of Roma is not fully rejected ?
and now countries in mainland of Europa are shared many common culture characters, bloodline and identities.
Turn to history blog of Le Minh Khue. He is very funny too, when he commented about word 吳 " Ngô " in 平吳大誥 "Binh Ngo Dai Cao".
吳 or Đông Ngô 东吳 or 東吳 国 in 三国 era, when 漢 Dynasty of China ís going to collapsed. The word 吳 " Ngô " is referred to China from - 220 BCE.

Người Bắc thì kêu là Ngô, nghĩa là nước Ngô, có kẻ lại cắt nghĩa rằng vì bởi nó hay xưng mình là Ngô nghĩa là tôi. Từ này không còn còn phổ biến nữa.

Trans late in to English for other members:

Northern Vietnamese has been called Chinese as " Ngo " mean people of Ngo country. Someone else explained that becaouese Chinese (from Canton) said "ngo", it does mean " I am ". This word is not popular now.

http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Người_Hoa_(Việt_Nam)

 

[NiceGuy]

You guys don't need to learn the mistakes at all.

What I heard from you guys is 1979, then 1979, again 1979.

What's matter with 1979? The war happened on your soil, and your cities and villages were burning down. Who has suffered the biggest loss?

Both suffered the loss coz those cities were built by China's money, we dont need to pay back the debt to u after that , both had high casualties in war .

 

[dichoi]

No, Le Minh Khai seems to be a good researcher of history of Vietnam and its interactions with China. I have read some of his blogs. Highly professional written, quotes provided, no trolling seen.

do you know who is Le Minh Khai, he is not Vietnamese, he is white man.

Mấy năm qua, “tiếng tăm” của L.C Ken-li nổi lên không phải vì ông có đóng góp trong ngành Việt Nam học, mà chủ yếu là do một số công trình và bài viết có quan điểm gây tranh cãi. Biết tiếng Việt và tiếng Trung, say mê nghiên cứu Việt Nam, thậm chí lấy tên Việt là Lê Minh Khải,… L.C Ken-li được người đọc tin sẽ có cái nhìn khách quan, khoa học. Song qua các công trình, bài viết ông công bố, có thể thấy cùng với nhiều diễn giải lòng vòng về việc cần thay đổi hệ hình trong nghiên cứu lịch sử Việt Nam, L.C Ken-li ngày càng thể hiện rõ tham vọng muốn soi chiếu, xem xét lịch sử Việt Nam để đạt tới mục đích duy nhất là… đưa ra kết luận ngược với hầu hết các kết luận về lịch sử Việt Nam từng công bố!

Nhà nghiên cứu lịch sử hay kẻ "đốt đền"
leminhkhaiviet | About Vietnamese Cultural History and Scholarship

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Both suffered the loss coz those cities were built by China's money, we dont need to pay back the debt to u after that , both had high casualties in war .

Finally you have acknowledged China's contribution during the Vietnam war, yet you people were so ungrateful by turning the back on China.

Even your cities were built by China's money, and what else it can be?

 

[Rechoice]

Finally you have acknowledged China's contribution during the Vietnam war, yet you people were so ungrateful by turning the back on China.

Even your cities were built by China's money, and what else it can be?

blood debt, I think so.

 

[xesy]

Finally you have acknowledged China's contribution during the Vietnam war, yet you people were so ungrateful by turning the back on China.

Even your cities were built by China's money, and what else it can be?

Factories, maybe. But there are a bunch of infrastructures built by the French, and China demolished them too. The bridge in my hometown was built by the French from the 1800s, made of steel frame and concrete. And China did try to demolished it with explosive. The concrete fell of, but the steel frame was hardly damaged and fell into the river. Later we pulled it up and used it to rebuilt the bridge. Still in good use now. There were other govt buildings and houses built by French, but they were gone now.

You guys don't need to learn the mistakes at all.

What I heard from you guys is 1979, then 1979, again 1979.

What's matter with 1979? The war happened on your soil, and your cities and villages were burning down. Who has suffered the biggest loss?

The problem is you guys call this war "Counter offensive war", while we call it "The border war 1979". China loved to play victim.

Both suffered the loss coz those cities were built by China's money, we dont need to pay back the debt to u after that , both had high casualties in war .

Before the war, VN did borrow Soviet money and rice to pay back China supply during the war. We even stamped on our rice bag "Rice borrowed from Soviet to pay China". Even though we all know that a large number of Soviet supply when transported through China by train was stripped off Soviet seals and stamped Chinese seals on.

 

[Grand Historian]

@dichoi

Pls to ignore this Chinese boy, he will cry to Mod to ban you soon.

Considering how your academic incompetence is your trademark as well as trolling all you do waste forum space.

your comment is funny.

why Holy Roma Empire is collapsed, many country is became independent state but culture heritage of Roma is not fully rejected ?

and now countries in mainland of Europa are shared many common culture characters, bloodline and identities.

Turn to history blog of Le Minh Khue. He is very funny too, when he commented about word 吳 " Ngô " in 平吳大誥 "Binh Ngo Dai Cao".

吳 or Đông Ngô 东吳 or 東吳 国 in 三国 era, when 漢 Dynasty of China ís going to collapsed. The word 吳 " Ngô " is referred to China from - 220 BCE.

This just shows you failed to read the link,"Other than its appearned in the line which proceeds this document, I have not found Ngô in any other premodern Vietnamese text as a term which refers to the Chinese. " prove this.

Regardless his Classical Chinese is leaps and bounds ahead of both us,I'm able to translate some texts what are you capable of?

do you know who is Le Minh Khai, he is not Vietnamese, he is white man.

Mấy năm qua, “tiếng tăm” của L.C Ken-li nổi lên không phải vì ông có đóng góp trong ngành Việt Nam học, mà chủ yếu là do một số công trình và bài viết có quan điểm gây tranh cãi. Biết tiếng Việt và tiếng Trung, say mê nghiên cứu Việt Nam, thậm chí lấy tên Việt là Lê Minh Khải,… L.C Ken-li được người đọc tin sẽ có cái nhìn khách quan, khoa học. Song qua các công trình, bài viết ông công bố, có thể thấy cùng với nhiều diễn giải lòng vòng về việc cần thay đổi hệ hình trong nghiên cứu lịch sử Việt Nam, L.C Ken-li ngày càng thể hiện rõ tham vọng muốn soi chiếu, xem xét lịch sử Việt Nam để đạt tới mục đích duy nhất là… đưa ra kết luận ngược với hầu hết các kết luận về lịch sử Việt Nam từng công bố!

Nhà nghiên cứu lịch sử hay kẻ "đốt đền"
leminhkhaiviet | About Vietnamese Cultural History and Scholarship

So White people can't research and explain Vietnamese history?