Grand Historian
FULL MEMBER
![](/styles/default/xenforo/ranks/Lieutenant.jpg)
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2013
- Messages
- 668
- Reaction score
- 1
- Country
- Location
You are stupid historian when you can not understand what is the different thing here.
Mongolian and Manchurian were foreigners, they invaded in to China and ruled Chinese.
Ly, Tran and Ho were Yue people came to Vietnam, they were Vietnamezed after many generations living in Vietnam.
Seems like I hit a nerve,petty insults won't do anything to help your credibility.You are stupid historian when you can not understand what is the different thing here.
Mongolian and Manchurian were foreigners, they invaded in to China and ruled Chinese.
Ly, Tran and Ho were Yue people came to Vietnam, they were Vietnamezed after many generations living in Vietnam.
Most important thing for the matter is that they fought against domination or invasion of chinese aggressors in to Vietnam, Tang, Mongolian or Ming aggressors.
Its difference, you are fake little historian.![]()
"China" was split in to XiXia,Jin and Song on the eve of the Mongol conquests,Ming had already fallen into shambles before Wu Sangui allowed the Manchus to enter.
Neither one of these conquests would not have been possible without Han Chinese defectors.
Guess what,the Mongols and the Manchus did the exact same thing as the ancestors of the Ly,Tran and Ho they adopted local ways but never forgot their roots.
Ly ancestors came during the end of Western Han to escape the chaos Wang Mang started:
Found in the Dai Viet Su Ky Toan Thu
前李紀
Annals of Former Ly dynasty
帝姓李,諱賁,龍興太平人也。其先北人,
The emperor's surname was Ly his given name Bi from Longxi,Taiping. His ancestor came from the North.
西漢末苦於征伐,避居南土,七世遂爲南人。
At the fall of Western Han under the onus of warfare they sought refuge in the South,After 7 generations they became Southerners.
Tran ancestors came from Fujian and were able to speak Chinese
陳紀
Annals of the Tran dynasty
帝之先世閩人
The Tran emperor's ancestors were from Fujian
A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books
Secondary Cities and Urban Networking in the Indian Ocean Realm, C. 1400-1800 - Google Books
Ho ancestors came from Zhejiang.
Secondary Cities and Urban Networking in the Indian Ocean Realm, C. 1400-1800 - Google Books
Where is the evidence their ancestors are Yue not Han/Hua simply coming from Southern China doesn't make them Yue...
I'm not going to argue whether Yuan was Chinese or not I don't have sufficient information however Qing is viewed themselves as "Chinese" as sought to be sage emperors.
Here is the 1842 treaty of Nanking in Chinese and English notice how the treaty refers to Qing as China and that the Qing called themselves 中國.
南京條約 - 维基文库,自由的图书馆
Treaty of Nanking - Wikisource, the free online library
You do realize that the Manchus called Qing, Dulimbai gurun or Central Country(equivalent to中國) not Manchuria right?
Another definite proof is this Qing era passports.
Read post 27.
Nonexistent "Manchurian Empire" - Page 3 - Historum - History Forums
If you want to use bloodline as a proof that Qing was Manchu you also have to realize that Kangxi,Qianlong and Jiaqing all had "Han" mothers.
Kangxi's mother Tong clan
Qianlong's mother Qian clan
Jiaqing's mother Wei clan
Not to mention many ethnic Han were were bannerman and were free to intermarry between Mongol and Manchu bannerman.