History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

[Rent]

@Grand Historian
Here is a good article from the perspective of your fellow Chinese on why China's reforms all fail.
Why Do China’s Reforms All Fail? | The Diplomat

@StarCraft_ZT
Here is a link if you wanted to learn of Wang Anshi's reforms. However, I recommend that you so read Song Shi to fully understand the events we are taking about.
http://www.paulrittman.com/WangAnshiReformer.pdf

 

[Grand Historian]

@Grand Historian
Here is a good article from the perspective of your fellow Chinese on why China's reforms all fail.
Why Do China’s Reforms All Fail? | The Diplomat

@StarCraft_ZT
Here is a link if you wanted to learn of Wang Anshi's reforms. However, I recommend that you so read Song Shi to fully understand the events we are taking about.
http://www.paulrittman.com/WangAnshiReformer.pdf

Your paper doesn't even back up your claim that the Baojia system crippled Song bureaucracy.

I already stated that Wang Anshi intended the Baojia system to save money not spend it.

 

[Rent]

With Baojia reform, the military size increased. This gave the emperor ambition to seek advices to go to war. The constant warfares depleted Song's treasury, which eventually weakened the government.

Have you even read Song Shi? Do I need to do your homework for you?

Your paper doesn't even back up your claim that the Baojia system crippled Song bureaucracy.

I already stated that Wang Anshi intended the Baojia system to save money not spend it.

 

[Rent]

@Grand Historian,

I quote here two phrases below used during Northern Song that shows why their military can not protect them from invasions on the frontier.

“Emphasize the civil, de‐emphasize the military” (重文輕武).

“Removing military command over a cup of wine” (杯酒 釋兵權).

 

[Grand Historian]

With Baojia reform, the military size increased. This gave the emperor ambition to seek advices to go to war. The constant warfares depleted Song's treasury, which eventually weakened the government.

Have you even read Song Shi? Do I need to do your homework for you?

Are you daft?

The main intention of the Baojia reforms was intended to safeguard against rebels as well as provide as a defense against external enemies,the second was to gradually replace the Song mercenary army.

Shenzong decided to go to war after Wang Anshi retired,Wang Anshi didn't want to squander the troops against external enemies he wanted to build up money to rejuvenate the Song military and economy.

You claimed the Baojia system bankrupted the Song, and that the Song used that excuse to invade others.

Baojia system =/= military campaigns.

Even with the constant wars the Song never went bankrupt.

@Grand Historian,

I quote here two phrases below used during Northern Song that shows why their military can not protect them from invasions on the frontier.

“Emphasize the civil, de‐emphasize the military” (重文輕武).

“Removing military command over a cup of wine” (杯酒 釋兵權).

While having horrible leaders does ruin wars this doesn't make the troops weak,the loss of elite troop during campaigns against XiXia was one issue.

 

[Jlaw]

Is Nanning under China or Vietnam?

How you didn't succeed to grab our land?

Vietnamese kick Chinese *** in 1044 b.c.--viet logic for debate.

You're not even quoting from the Songshi,you're quoting from some random tourist website.

Wang Anshi's death and the humiliation of Jingkang are separated by span of 41 years,you don't seem to realize that Wang Anshi policies were distorted by his successors and misuse of funds.

You claim that the Song was bankrupted by Wang Anshi's policies which shows you clearly have no grasp on his reforms.

It was the emperor who decided to go to war not Wang Anshi.

Bro, these viet monkeys should pay you for history lessons, it's informative. How can they even try and debate Chinese history without ability to read Chinese.

Pinoy appear smarter than Viets.

 

[Grand Historian]

Bro, these viet monkeys should pay you for history lessons, it's informative. How can they even try and debate Chinese history without ability to read Chinese.

Pinoy appear smarter than Viets.

The issue isn't that they can't read Classical Chinese,the issue is that they don't source their claims or they cherry pick the texts.

 

[xesy]

You guys really need to stop arguing...

I have a question. Who is the most revered ancient Vietnamese figure? I know there are Ho Chi Minh, but he is very recent.

I guess there are Hung Dao King Tran Quoc Tuan (or commonly known as Tran Hung Dao) and Quang Trung King Nguyen Hue. The first was the hero leading VNese fought against Mongolian/ Yuan invasions at their prime, while the later lead VN to victory against both Siam and Qing one after another (his legendary march from South VN to North VN is often talked about today). There are also other heroes like Ly Thuong Kiet, Le Loi, Ngo Quyen etc.

BTW is this your new account? I remember there is another East Lake mem around PDF a while ago.

 

[Rent]

It is apparent that you can not comprehend well. Baojia system failed to do what it was set up to do. It did not work.

Constant warfare depleted the Song treasury. How many times do I have to repeat this?

Again, I advise you to read Song Shi again.

Are you daft?

The main intention of the Baojia reforms was intended to safeguard against rebels as well as provide as a defense against external enemies,the second was to gradually replace the Song mercenary army.

Shenzong decided to go to war after Wang Anshi retired,Wang Anshi didn't want to squander the troops against external enemies he wanted to build up money to rejuvenate the Song military and economy.

You claimed the Baojia system bankrupted the Song, and that the Song used that excuse to invade others.

Baojia system =/= military campaigns.

Even with the constant wars the Song never went bankrupt.


While having horrible leaders does ruin wars this doesn't make the troops weak,the loss of elite troop during campaigns against XiXia was one issue.

 

[Grand Historian]

It is apparent that you can not comprehend well. Baojia system failed to do what it was set up to do. It did not work.

Constant warfare depleted the Song treasury. How many times do I have to repeat this?

Again, I advise you to read Song Shi again.

You conflate two entirely different concepts,the Baojia system is not equivalent to waging wars.

How does depleting the treasury turn into bankruptcy,you're not even consistent with your wild claims.

You claimed the Song waged war to recover money from the Baojia system now when I confront you all you is say read the Song Shi.

There are many other Song era sources the Cambridge History of China quotes from,you haven't shown me a single quote from the Song Shi instead you use Vietnamese sources to prove that Wang Anshi instigated the Song Ly war.

 

[NiceGuy]

You guys really need to stop arguing...

I have a question. Who is the most revered ancient Vietnamese figure? I know there are Ho Chi Minh, but he is very recent.

Its Gen. Tran Hung Dao in Tran dynasty, he helped Great Viet (Dai Viet) defeat mighty Mongol 3 times.

Trần Hưng Đạo (1228–1300) was the Supreme Commander of Vietnam during the Trần Dynasty.[1][2] Born Prince Trần Quốc Tuấn (陳國峻), he commanded the Đại Việt armies that repelled three major Mongol invasions in the 13th century.[3] His triple victories over the mighty Mongol Yuan Dynasty under Kublai Khan are considered among the greatest military feats in world history. General Trần Hưng Đạo’s military brilliance and prowess are reflected in many warfare treatises that he authored. Trần Hưng Đạo is regarded as one of the most accomplished military tacticians in history.
Trần Hưng Đạo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Rent]

You conflate two entirely different concepts,the Baojia system is not equivalent to waging wars.

How does depleting the treasury turn into bankruptcy,you're not even consistent with your wild claims.

You claimed the Song waged war to recover money from the Baojia system now when I confront you all you is say read the Song Shi.

There are many other Song era sources the Cambridge History of China quotes from,you haven't shown me a single quote from the Song Shi instead you use Vietnamese sources to prove that Wang Anshi instigated the Song Ly war.

I don't believe I am doing your home work for you.

Do you have the Song History written by Li Tao? If so read volume 275.

 

[Grand Historian]

I don't believe I am doing your home work for you.

Do you have the Song History written by Li Tao? If so read volume 275.

How pathetic just like your other claims you don't back it up when I ask for the quote.

 

[Rent]

How pathetic just like your other claims you don't back it up when I ask for the quote.

I see you don't have Song Shi. If you do, you would know.

@Grand Historian,

Do you need me to get you a copy?

 

[Grand Historian]

I see you don't have Song Shi. If you do, you would know.

@Grand Historian,

Do you need me to get you a copy?

The burden of proof is on you,you made the claims and somehow I have to do your research for you.

The 24 histories are quite accessible,you're just being lazy.