Hindus the real minorities in their own mother land India.

[ArsalanKhan21]

Regardless of when it was written ( no real argument with your dates, maybe a few hundred years at the most), the Rig veda knows of no foreign lands. Nor does it know of any earlier lands or any migration. The rest is conjecture, yours is as good as anyone else's.

Most nations do not write their history. Most sources of first account of Indian history are Chinese pilgrims, Alexander, Greek ambassadors and Muslim writers like Alberuni.

 

[scorpionx]

Age of Rig Veda itself is more than 12000 bce . And vedas scripts are knowledge passed on to generation verbally . So the actual age of the information will be much older than that. For example Rig vedas talks about flourishing Saraswati River basin . Which was dried before 12000 bce as per Modern Scientists . Only now with Satellite imaging we have found the trace of Saraswati River . And the trace of settlements. So how who ever wrote Rig Veda knew about this river ?

There is no convincing way to determine the age of Rg except the effort by Tilak who dates the age not beyond 5000BC based upon astronomical evidences.

 

[Ind4Ever]

There is no convincing way to determine the age of Rg except the effort by Tilak who dates the age not beyond 5000BC based upon astronomical evidences.

Hare bhai ! Did you even read my post ? Simple ma see. It talks about river Saraswati . Which got dried before 12000 bce . How they knew about it when only satellite images found its existence .... until unless people lived in there wrote Rig Veda ?

Simple point

 

[scorpionx]

Hare bhai ! Did you even read my post ? Simple ma see. It talks about river Saraswati . Which got dried before 12000 bce . How they knew about it when only satellite images found its existence .... until unless people lived in there wrote Rig Veda ?

Simple point

Saraswati dried up between 1500-1200BC. 0s are cheap

 

[Raul_AD]

There is no convincing way to determine the age of Rg except the effort by Tilak who dates the age not beyond 5000BC based upon astronomical evidences.

Sir Vedas has mentioned River Saraswati as Mighty Flowing River. And till recently everybody was not able to understand which river they were talking about. Till it become evident that there was actual river which really flowed through Haryana Rajasthan and end in Gulf of Kutchh and Ravi and Yamuna as it's major tributaries.

This river itself has dried due to change in climate before 2500BC i.e. 5000 years, if Vedas mentioning Saraswati River as Mighty Flowing River hence it means the Vedic society flourished and gained knowledge along with development of Sanskrit Language which takes Centuries to accomplish.

Hence we can safely presume that Vedic Civilization is definitely much older then 5000 years.

 

[jamahir]

And iraqi created Indian Civilisation ?

i said "indus" not the vague word "indian".

We are getting sidetracked from the topic of the thread.

That Hinduism is a second class citizen on its ancestral soil.

tribal leaders like kancha ilaiah will say that they are the real sons and daughters of the soil.

kancha ilaiah on the rss and his own dilemma

Only because you wish to believe that. Not supported by evidence.

there are very visible hints like language... but is there evidence to the contrary??

Old Persian Aryan religion shared many features Vedic Aryan beliefs. Vedic Aryans adopted many Dravidian religious beliefs while the Persian Aryans converted to Zorastrianism.

example, some of the shape of present hindu temples is dravidian in origin.

Mehrgarh is 7000 years old and according to scholars, the dental pattern of Period I Mehrgarh inhabitants share several features common in the South East Asian dental pattern. The Elamite Dravidians migrated from Iraq-Iran and established Indus Valley Civilisation.

dravidians are among the ( most probably ) two original races of india, the other being the central indian ( deccani ) peoples like bhils and gonds.

but you say dravdians are from iraq.

i will ask @al-Hasani to comment on this and on my assertion that "indus valley culture" is from iraq region.

Vedic Aryans migrated from the Bactria–Margiana region 1800 BC and conquered Indus Valley and adopted many features of the local religion and culture.

1800 bc is too far back... i doubt vedic culture even existed that back.

Proto-Shiva is old local deity of Dravidians and not Vedic Aryan.

that may well be, but that has no connection to ivc.

From 1980 go avoid embarrassment these christians and muslims started to create fake history of Indians and Aryan Invasion" hypothesis has been strongly challenged as a myth propagated by colonial scholars who sought to reinforce the idea that anything valuable in India must have come from elsewhere. Critics of the hypothesis note that there is lack of evidence of any conquest, among other historical and archaeological problems.

The seals found in Indus Valley has picture of Lord Shiva and his Bull in a meditation state . In scripted As Pasupathi . PASU MEANS COW in most of all Indian Languages .
And Shiva lingams any many more Evidence found . But these Western people and Arabs don't want to speak about it . So does these SECULARS in India .

supreme intellect flows so fiercely from that argument... the research body must be "saraswati vidya mandir" school.

Hence we can safely presume that Vedic Civilization is definitely much older then 5000 years.

what a accomplished declaration.

 

[Ind4Ever]

Saraswati dried up between 1500-1200BC. 0s are cheap

This is history human civilisation .... Timeline of Vedic civilization:
Many important events of ancient Hindu civilization are being validated and under revision by Indian and Western scholars. The Aryan invasion theory has been rejected as a fabrication of 19th century Indologists, Many of whom were Philologists, Civil servants and administrators in colonial India and had no scientific background. The modern Indologists have used carbon dating, Archeology, satellite imagery and ancient celestial events have been reverse engineered using calculations based on Vedanga Jyothishya. The chronology of many important events in ancient Vedic civilization is being further back dated. The time of Taittiriya Brahmana and Mahabharata have been dated. The current view of many scholars is that Indian Hindu civilization is the oldest continuous living civilization.

Chronology of Ancient Indian History
Desitip.com
* 500,000 BC? Tools like stone axes were in use in India.
* 70,000 BC? Start of last ice age.
* 20,000 BC? Manu Vaivasvata "Father of humankind" sailed from south India to north towards the Himalayas during the great deluge.

* 15,000 BC: Asians spread to Eurasia.
* 12,000 BC: Native Americans spread all over Americas
* 12,000 BC: Vedic civilization flourishes in India.
* 10,000 BC: The existence of Vedas as early as 10000 BC has been found based on description of celestial events in Vedic scripture Taittariya brahmana. A celestial event of asterism Aquarius 20° 00' to Pisces 3° 20' ( Purva Bhadrapada ) rising due east has been mentioned in the Vedic scripture. By reverse engineering using calculations based on Vedanga Jyothishya, Some Indian scholars(Dr. B.G. Siddharth) have found that, the celestial event had occurred around 10000 BC.

* 8,500 BC: Yajur veda Taittireya samhita describes a celestial event where the position of Pleiades asterism(Kritika) is mentioned. This would put the usage of this Veda to 8500 BC.
* 8,000 BC? Sage Kapila propounded the Sankhya Philosopy, one of the six darshanas of ( hinduism ) philosophy. The date of Kapila is very controversial. Kapila is mentioned in both Ramayana and Mahabharata.

* 7,300 BC: According to calculations by some scholars King Rama was born in 7323 BC.
* 7,000 BC: Early evidence of horses being used in the Gangetic plains. This based on horse sacrifice mentioned in Ramayana.
* 6,500 BC: According to Dr. Frawley The Rig Vedic verses (e.g., 1.117.22, 1.116.12, 1.84.13.5) describe winter solstice in Aries which can date the planetary positions to around 6,500 BC.

* 5,000 BC: Rig Vedic civilization flourishes in areas starting from Uttarkhand, Haryana, Punjab, south-eastern Afghanistan, Harappa, Mohenjo-daro, present day Gujarat and Rajastan. Many archeological sites have been dated by scientific analysis. Brick fire altars found in many houses, suggesting Vedic yagna/fire worship. Earliest signs of worship of Lord Siva.

* 3138 BC - Mahabharata War: The date has been determined by Indian scholars based on MahaRishi Veda Vyasa's description of the positions of the Sun, Moon, Rahu, Saturn, Jupiter, Mars and Venus at the time of the MahaBharata war. Vysa Also describes the planetary positions and the winter solstice at the time of Bheeshma's death, a few days after the war. An inscription dated 634 AD at a Jain temple in Aihole, Karnataka states that the temple was built after 3735 years ( Saka era ) had passed since the Bharata war. Tilak and other scholars have computed the traditional period of the Mahabharata war to be 3100 BC based on vedanga Jyothishya calculations. Alternate date of Mahabharata war has been suggested as 5561 BC.

* 3102 BC: Some scholars compute this period as the beginning of KaliYuga based on computation using Vedanga Jyothishya and Lord Krishna's reference to it in MahaBharata.

* 3100 BC: End of early Vedic period. Some scholars consider the end of Mahabharata war as the beginning of later Vedic period.

* 3000 BC: Indus - Sarasvati civilization flourishes for next 600 years spread over northwest India, Gujarat, Punjab and Haryana. The settlement had links to Karnataka ( Dakshina patha ), Mesopotamia and Central Asia. Rice and cotton are cultivated.

* 2900 BC: Sage Ashvalayana ( disciple of sage Saunaka) compiles Rigvedic Srauta and Grihya sutras. The Grhya sutra describes the process of conducting rituals at important events such as conception, birth, initiation, marriage, death etc. Srauta sutras describe the process of conducting ritual sacrifices at the altar of fire etc.

* 2800 BC: Ancient grammarian genius Panini composes Ashtadhyayi, Describes the difference between the language of the learned ( Sanskrit/ Samskruta ) and the colloquial language (Prakrit and Apabramsha) of communication. Panini gave a framework of formal rules and definitions to describe Samskruta(Sanskrit) grammar. The language of the Vedas is known as Chandas.

* 2500 BC? Mathematician Baudhayana's Sulba sutras pre-dates Pythagoras theorem by 2000 years. Budhayana also wrote a treatise on Vedic rituals known as Baudhayana Srauta sutra.
* 1900 BC: Possible drying up of Saraswati river due to climatic changes and its tributaries changing course due to tectonic shift. People move east to Gangetic plains and south to Deccan plateau. Probable timeline for migration to east and south of so called "Vedic Aryans". 19th century Indologists have coined the terms "Pancha Dravida" and "Pancha Gauda" to describe the people who migrated to south and east.

* 1900 BC: Yaska - Celebrated author of Nirukta, a treatise on Sanskrit etymology, philology and semantics. This is regarded as earliest known work on language etymology. Yaska succeeded sage Sakatayana and refers to 9 predecessors. Some of the ancient etymologists named are Audumbarayana, Varshayani, Gargya and Galava.

* 1500 BC: Ayurveda ( Hindu school of medicine ) starts to get systematized. Aitreya(Punarvasu) samhita is referred to as the oldest digest of Ayurvedic medicine. However Caraka ( Charaka ) samhita is well known and is supposed have been compiled by Caraka as the earliest known work on Internal medicine in world history.

* 1250 BC: King of Magadha, Shuchi compiles Vedanga Jyothishya, The earliest known treatise on Astrology. Laghada is another compiler of Vedanga Jyothishya according to certain ancient works on astrology. Vedanga Jyothishya was in vogue since the time of Mahabharata.

* 1100 BC: Grammarian Katyana writes a vartika on Panin's Ashtadhyani. A vartika is a brief elucidation of some research work to clear any ambiguity.

* 1000 BC: Later Vedic period ends.
* 850 BC: Earliest records of the city of Varanasi dated to 80 BC found. Varanasi ( or Kashi) is mentioned in Vedas and is probably the oldest living city in history.
* 750 BC: Prakrit, The language of common man is in use. Sanskrit, The language of the learned starts getting refined.

* 623-543 BC: Buddha( Siddhartha Gautama ), born to Hindu shaivaite sakya royal family in Lumbini, Northern part of ancient India.

* 600 BC: Sushrutha, ancient Indian Surgeon lived and practiced at Kashi. Systematized and wrote a samhita(treatise) on surgery and other practices. Sushrutha is known as world's earliest plastic surgeon. Only tainted manuscripts of Sushrutha Samhita have been found.


The chronology of ancient Indian history has been compiled bywww.desitip.com.


* 600 BC: Carvaka ( Chaarvaka ). Carvaka propounded a philosophy of atheism known as Lokayata. One who questions the authenticity of vedas is known as a Nastika ( Naastika ). The Lokayata philosophy is more popularly as Carvaka due to the author. The Carvakas did not believe in life after death and believed in naturalism and sensual indulgence. This philosphy was refuted by later day Indian philosophers such as Sage Madhava Vidyaranya.

* 599 BC: Bhagawan Mahavir, The 24th thirthankar of Jains was born as a prince in Bihar. Mahavir's teachings stress on vegetarianism, asceticism and nonviolence. Some scholars have proposed the date of Mahavira to be 1882 BC.

* 500 BC: Pali and Prakrit used by Buddhists and Jains to write their scriptures. Brahmi script is in use.
* 473 BC: Adi Shankaracharya born in Kaladi, present day Kerala. This is based on the fact that Shankaracharya was born 70 years after the PariNirvana of Buddha. ShankaraCharya debated and transformed Shaktas, Vaishnavaites, Shaivaites, Sankyas, Jains with his vast knowledge of Vedas and sharp intellect. Advaita philosophy became pre-eminent during Shankaracharya's time. Some scholars put the birth date of ShankaraCharya to be 509 BC while others put it as 788 AD. More research is needed to determine the accuracy of Shankaracharya's time.

* 413-322 BC: The mighty Nandas rule India from Magadha in present day Bihar.
* 326 BC : Alexander battles with Pururava/Paurava( king Poros ) a small king at the northwestern Indian border. Alexander learn't that the Nandas were waiting for him on the eastern banks of river Yamuna with an infantry of 200,000 soldiers, 20,000 horses, 2000 chariots and 4000 elephants. This seems to have terrorized the Macedonian soldiers and Alexander retreated to Persia in 324 BC and died in Babylonia in 323 BC.

* 322 - 299 BC: ChandraGupta Maurya ascends the throne in Magadha.
* 299 BC: Bindusara ascends throne in Magadha.
* 273-234 BC: Reign of Emperor Asoka.
* 235 BC - 225 AD: Satavahanas rule parts of central and south India from their capital at Pratishtana ( Paatan ) in ancient Karnataka. Gunadya's famous Brhat Katha was composed during this time.

* 182 BC: End of Maurya Empire. The rise of Sungas.
* 100 BC: Mathematician Pingala uses Binary arithmetic to classify Vedic meters while writing a treatise on Vedanga Chandas Shastra.
* 73-28 BC: The reign of Kanvas.
* 15 AD - 124 AD : The reign of Kushans in Northwest India.
* 250 - 490 AD : The Vakatakas

Time line is much older than this

 

[Bang Galore]

Saraswati dried up between 1500-1200BC. 0s are cheap

A feeling of deja vu on this topic.

Latest studies suggest a date of 2100 to 1800 BCE. Some studies suggest an even earlier date of 4100 to 3900 BCE but hey, everyone can have their own dates whether it is 12000 or 1200 BCE. Anything goes here. Except a logical, open mind.......

I'm outta here........

 

[Raul_AD]

Saraswati dried up between 1500-1200BC. 0s are cheap

Sarasvati River - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

River Saraswati dried up 2000 BC

Drying-up of the Ghaggar-Hakra system
Late in the 2nd millennium BCE the Ghaggar-Hakra fluvial system dried up, which affected the Harappan civilisation.

Giosan et al., in their study Fluvial landscapes of the Harappan civilisation,[37] make clear that the Ghaggar-Hakra fluvial system was not a large glacierfed Himalayan river, but a monsoonal-fed river.[62][4][note 2] They concluded that the Indus Valley Civilisation died out because the monsoons, which fed the rivers that supported the civilisation, migrated to the east. With the rivers drying out as a result, the civilisation diminished some 4000 years ago.[37] This particular effected the Ghaggar-Hakra system, which became ephemeral and was largely abandoned.[65] The Indus Valley Civilisation had the option to migrate east toward the more humid regions of the Indo-Gangetic Plain, where the decentralized late Harappan phase took place.[65]

Painted Grey Ware sites (ca. 1000 BCE) have been found in the bed and not on the banks of the Ghaggar-Hakra river, suggesting that the river had dried up before this period.[66]

Other scenarios suppose that geological changes diverted the Sutlej towards the Indus and the Yamuna towards the Ganges, following which the river did not have enough water to reach the sea any more and dried up in the Thar desert.[citation needed] Active faults are present in the region, and lateral and vertical tectonic movements have frequently diverted streams in the past. The Saraswati may have migrated westward due to such uplift of the Aravallis.[67] According to geologists Puri and Verma a major seismic activity in the Himalayan region caused the rising of the Bata-Markanda Divide. This resulted in the blockage of the westward flow of Sarasvati forcing the water back. Since the Yamunā Tear opening was not far off, the blocked water exited from the opening into the Yamunā system.[68][69]

 

[Ind4Ever]

Traces of Ramayana and places of Mahabharata still exists in India and all other countries . Like Mahabharata Kundhi devi who was the queen of Kandhahar . Now where is Kandhahar ?

And today Bangladesh is a Muslim country with capital dhaka . Which was derived from goddess Dakehwari ...

 

[scorpionx]

A feeling of deja vu on this topic.

Latest studies suggest a date of 2100 to 1800 BCE. Some studies suggest an even earlier date of 4100 to 3900 BCE but hey, everyone can have their own dates whether it is 12000 or 1200 BCE. Anything goes here. Except a logical, open mind.......

I'm outta here........

I just opened up Edwin Bryant once again and checked. Prof. B B Lal places the date in the beginning of second millennium BC. But you are right, who cares about zeros, its we invented after all. I am ejecting out too.

Sir Vedas has mentioned River Saraswati as Mighty Flowing River. And till recently everybody was not able to understand which river they were talking about. Till it become evident that there was actual river which really flowed through Haryana Rajasthan and end in Gulf of Kutchh and Ravi and Yamuna as it's major tributaries.

This river itself has dried due to change in climate before 2500BC i.e. 5000BC, if Vedas mentioning Saraswati River as Mighty Flowing River hence it means the Vedic society flourished and gained knowledge along with development of Sanskrit Language which takes Centuries to accomplish.

Hence we can safely presume that Vedic Civilization is definitely much older then 5000 years.

Sir, professionals more or less puts it at 2000BC maximum. Just for the record, Aitareya Brahmana refers to the shifting of vernal equinox from Nakshatra mrigashira to rohini. According to expert astrologers, this event took place around 3500 BC. Other than these to data, we do not have any proof that firmly dates the early history of Vedas because the IE speakers hardly left any archaeological structures for us to inspect.
Regards

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

that may well be, but that has no connection to ivc

Some scholars assert that this IVC represents a local deity which later became proto-Shiva.

 

[Raul_AD]

i said "indus" not the vague word "indian".
tribal leaders like kancha ilaiah will say that they are the real sons and daughters of the soil.
kancha ilaiah on the rss and his own dilemma
there are very visible hints like language... but is there evidence to the contrary??

example, some of the shape of present hindu temples is dravidian in origin.
dravidians are among the ( most probably ) two original races of india, the other being the central indian ( deccani ) peoples like bhils and gonds.
but you say dravdians are from iraq.
i will ask @al-Hasani to comment on this and on my assertion that "indus valley culture" is from iraq region.
1800 bc is too far back... i doubt vedic culture even existed that back.
that may well be, but that has no connection to ivc.
supreme intellect flows so fiercely from that argument... the research body must be "saraswati vidya mandir" school.
what a accomplished declaration.

Take your Arabic Jahalat and get out of here

 

[Ind4Ever]

A feeling of deja vu on this topic.

Latest studies suggest a date of 2100 to 1800 BCE. Some studies suggest an even earlier date of 4100 to 3900 BCE but hey, everyone can have their own dates whether it is 12000 or 1200 BCE. Anything goes here. Except a logical, open mind.......

I'm outta here........

Sorry my mistake Saraswati River started before 12000 or more bce during of the end of ice age .

Don't forgot India lost its huge land mass Called KUMARI Kandam ( continent of tamil hindus) who later migrated into north and other parts .


These things are very confusing because there is no official or proper research were not carried. Indian government must look into this. And come up with real history of our Mother land. And our roots of our civilisation . Instead they want to suppress hindus from doing so . Like tamil party want to destroy Adams Bridge . Which is mentioned in Ramayana . Which was only discovered by American satellite images . Till then it was known as fake or imaginary . But seems to be true after all . So hindus are native people of India . It's our mother land have doubt on it

Some scholars assert that this IVC represents a local deity which later became proto-Shiva.

This very posture is from Yogic exercise .

 

[jamahir]

* 20,000 BC? Manu Vaivasvata "Father of humankind" sailed from south India to north towards the Himalayas during the great deluge

wow... wow...

This very posture is from Yogic exercise .

and i have seen horses among the clouds.