Has the American establishment finally crossed the line with Pakistan ...

[ebrahym]

Vajpayee told Clinton that there would be no talks and no negotiation nor would Indian military action stop till all of Kargil is back with India. First Sartaz Aziz came to India asking to stop military action. Jaswant Singh said no. Then Nawaz ran to USA. Feel free to post any documentary. It will bear out these sequence of events.

Pakistan's withdrawal was a precondition for not only talks but for US involvement ......
Americans were much more concerned about nuclear aspects which is why they heavily pressured NS to pull troops...... which Pakistan eventually did...

Please read your own source. NS was not invited. Read the language used by Americans. I have hardly seen such disrespectful treatment to a head of the state by another. I am quite aware what happened those days, not just from Indian authors but Pakistani and American authors as well. So save your documentary for yourself. You can change narrative but you can't change history. Indian response forced you to go nuclear. Does that ring any bell?

building narrative is a associated with India and their media ....... Documentary is not fro me sir its for you ........ I have an open mind for discussion that can change after verifiable fact ......... Narratives however don't care about facts ........ since you dont want facts ........ i am akin to believe you are acting upon personal narrative......
furthermore..... since you dont want to be bothered by documented evidence .....do read the links i tagged you in previous post..............

 

[scorpionx]

India is not stupid to invade Pak. Such stupidity to invade has been the sole domain of tin pot Pakistani generals with some tactics in place and 0 strategy in place.


Which Indian diplomat?

You learn every day a new things on pdf. Pakistanis here are conveniently ignoring American narratives and desperatly trying to build a narrative of their own.This is the beauty of this forum.

 

[Jackdaws]

Google it....Even there is video of Clinton interview on youtube where he admits that Indian were chasing him everywhere to mediate.

Not there.

 

[scorpionx]

Pakistan's withdrawal was a precondition for not only talks but for US involvement ......
Americans were much more concerned about nuclear aspects which is why they heavily pressured NS to pull troops...... which Pakistan eventually did...


building narrative is a associated with India and their media ....... Documentary is not fro me sir its for you ........ I have an open mind for discussion that can change after verifiable fact ......... Narratives however don't care about facts ........ since you dont want facts ........ i am akin to believe you are acting upon personal narrative......
furthermore..... since you dont want to be bothered by documented evidence .....do read the links i tagged you in previous post..............

I have already read. In fact I have the book written by Strobe Talbot in my library. It only refutes your very own narrative. But do post the link. Lets see

 

[ebrahym]

India is not stupid to invade Pak. Such stupidity to invade has been the sole domain of tin pot Pakistani generals with some tactics in place and 0 strategy in place

do indulge

 

[Jackdaws]

Pakistan's withdrawal was a precondition for not only talks but for US involvement ......
Americans were much more concerned about nuclear aspects which is why they heavily pressured NS to pull troops...... which Pakistan eventually did...


building narrative is a associated with India and their media ....... Documentary is not fro me sir its for you ........ I have an open mind for discussion that can change after verifiable fact ......... Narratives however don't care about facts ........ since you dont want facts ........ i am akin to believe you are acting upon personal narrative......
furthermore..... since you dont want to be bothered by documented evidence .....do read the links i tagged you in previous post..............

Pak wanted some precondition. India said no. Clinton agreed. Only line which Clinton finally agreed to put in for Nawaz was that Clinton would take a personal interest in Kashmir dispute. Not the US. Clinton himself. Which didn't really matter.

 

[ebrahym]

You learn every day a new things on pdf. Pakistanis here are conveniently ignoring American narratives and desperatly trying to build a narrative of their own.This is the beauty of this forum.

well we try to learn unlike some who are just too stubborn.

Not there.

you need to try first.

Pak wanted some precondition. India said no. Clinton agreed. Only line which Clinton finally agreed to put in for Nawaz was that Clinton would take a personal interest in Kashmir dispute. Not the US. Clinton himself. Which didn't really matter.

Pakistan had no precondotions....
we were in your territory remember.....
just like china is right now.....
but unlike us they dont need diplomatic support....

 

[Maarkhoor]

Not there.

Google it...Have no time to spoon feed you and I think there is no use...You know Indian have one common problem....Denial when proven wrong either they runaway or simply bring other thing to blame us....So have you tea or coffee and enjoy....And paste India as winner military and economically....Despite have largest poorest population and despite defeated by China, Spanked by Pakistan...Always says So mien najaney kitney be-iman phir hamara Bharat mahaan.

 

[scorpionx]

well we try to learn unlike some who are just too stubborn.


you need to try first.


Pakistan had no precondotions....
we were in your territory remember.....
just like china is right now.....
but unlike us they dont need diplomatic support....

Stubborn you say and don't even care to read your very own source

 

[Trango Towers]

i have tackled this many times ........ there is a whole documentry about Kargil war in which Clinton first confronts Nawaz Sharif about troops in kargil and then brags about how he made them (Pakistan) withdraw......
he literally himself says that first Indian PM called him and then American intelligence confirmed this and then he confronted Nawaz....
i believe his exact words were....
"either he was lying or was the best actor in the world"...
US saved India in Kargil


it was ..... not with his whole family though .... but he did complain on a phone line..


you know what I am gonna have to post that whole documentary on this forum.....
and i will as soon as I can.


Pakistan's military-to-military contacts are very strong around the world.....
much stronger than India..... infact they are not even in the same league....
This really paid off in 27 feb incident..... it was essential in deterring ground-to-ground missile strikes by India when we were informed before hand by "friendly nation"

What friendly nation informed us? Israel was at the bases. It was our intel that knew?

 

[Vanamali]

Yes please remind the readers what an asshole Nawaz was.

You mean to say a Asshole represented 200 crore souls.... Will he be PM once again???

 

[Zarvan]

Both Pakistan and the USA have had a backwards and forwards relationship, ever since Pakistan came into being as a country. Partnerships were formed, only for the USA to break them, time after time. USA was always given the benefit of the doubt when new partnerships were formed, but the trust level was notched down 1 level each time for Pakistans view of the USA.

Each time the USA took a step backwards with their relationship with the Pakistan it never took a decision to challenge the direct terroritorial integrity of Pakistan, or Kashmir or directly take a path that would lead to harm to the lives of Pakistani's or Kashmiris in Pakistan Kashmir.

Recently, with the American establishments encouragement and support to India, to invade Azad Kashmir, and Gilgit and Balistan as part of its China containment policy, one which will have the direct effect of putting millions of Kashmiri men, women and children under the control of the terrorist Indian Army, has the USA finally gone too far with Pakistan?

It is one thing to cut off funds, not pay your bills, sanction supplies and place both economic and military sanctions, but it is quite another to directly threaten the integrity of the country and create a situation where millions of muslims go under India occupation to achieve a 'strategic objective' on a chessboard with no regard to Pakistan, and its people.

There is no way India would be bold enough to try and occupy Azad Kashmir, and Gilgit and Balistan without direct support and encouragement from the USA...

Is there any turning back for USA and Pakistan relations now?

Where USA supported India on Azad Kashmir and Gilgit Baltistan. In fact it was USA which played a role in deescalating things.

 

[ebrahym]

Stubborn you say and don't even care to read your very own source

What friendly nation informed us? Israel was at the bases. It was our intel that knew?

Our intel includes intel gathered from other intels shared willingly or unwillingly.

You mean to say a Asshole represented 200 crore souls

better than an asshole representing a billion soulss.....

Will he be PM once again???

knowing Pakistan ........
that is a possibility...

 

[Jackdaws]

do indulge

There was no invasion in brasstacks. Just the threat of one. Big difference.

well we try to learn unlike some who are just too stubborn.


you need to try first.


Pakistan had no precondotions....
we were in your territory remember.....
just like china is right now.....
but unlike us they dont need diplomatic support....

Why would you need diplomatic support?

Google it...Have no time to spoon feed you and I think there is no use...You know Indian have one common problem....Denial when proven wrong either they runaway or simply bring other thing to blame us....So have you tea or coffee and enjoy....And paste India as winner military and economically....Despite have largest poorest population and despite defeated by China, Spanked by Pakistan...Always says So mien najaney kitney be-iman phir hamara Bharat mahaan.

I don't have an issue with being proven wrong. If you are making a claim, you should back it up. I have issues with bhakts and Sanghis making tall claims. They never back it up either. I am happy to discuss historical facts with you and am fine if I am wrong.

You learn every day a new things on pdf. Pakistanis here are conveniently ignoring American narratives and desperatly trying to build a narrative of their own.This is the beauty of this forum.

One can understand if wars fought before 1990 have some multiple narratives because of lack of media. After 1991 almost all wars around the globe have been well documented by embedded journalists and verified by media.

 

[ebrahym]

Why would you need diplomatic support?

its not as much as support as opposition.....
they have permanent seats..... you need them to do anything in UN....
it is important they dont atleast oppose your moves if not endorse them.....

There was no invasion in brasstacks. Just the threat of one. Big difference.

watch the video it clearly says it was to make for precursors to make a fourth war happen........
also the part where Rajive was called "little boy"