Gujarat Riots 2002

[Joe Shearer]

[QUOTE="placemat, post: 11066154, member: 193112"]what is the state of SIMI nowadays. They had strong MH links. there were active in UP/Bihar, Kerala/South Canara, MH. Don't hear nowadays. Have they renamed?[/quote]

So what do you suggest needs to be done. We all know that there was scams in the UPA govt, but they were recently thrown out due to evidence. Such is the nature of the legal beast. Sikhriots happened 18 year before Godhra. And we are getting justice today. I am certain that justice will be served to Modi or whoever was complicit.

A fair question, very fair.

1. Justice delayed is justice denied. Each and every government has deliberately weakened the judicial arm of government so that they may get away with abuse of power; to them, it matters little if other politicians, at that moment, their rivals, also get to abuse power, as a result.
   1. We need to speed up the cycle of crime and punishment, to enable crimes to be followed swiftly by punishment.
2. This will not happen overnight.We therefore need to keep our memories fresh, with regard to these crimes against the state (on the logic that crimes against the constitution are crimes against the state that runs under that constitution).
3. We need to work for strengthening our institutions, and guard against their being attacked.
4. We need to distrust ALL politicians, a point that I have made consistently, and in the face of the weak-minded Sanghis who insist that opposition to the Sangh Parivar can only be the mindset of either a Congress or a Communist supporter.
5. We need to support our secular ideals actively, and try to bring to these positions all others whom we can persuade to change.

blame indians for what.

Some people know not to put their hands into a lions cage because they can understand consequences . Some people need to put their hands in the cage to understand why they should not be putting their hands in there.

<sigh>

I suppose you are right.

The burnt child dreadeth the fire.

 

[Placemat]

A fair question, very fair.

1. Justice delayed is justice denied. Each and every government has deliberately weakened the judicial arm of government so that they may get away with abuse of power; to them, it matters little if other politicians, at that moment, their rivals, also get to abuse power, as a result.
   1. We need to speed up the cycle of crime and punishment, to enable crimes to be followed swiftly by punishment.
2. This will not happen overnight.We therefore need to keep our memories fresh, with regard to these crimes against the state (on the logic that crimes against the constitution are crimes against the state that runs under that constitution).
3. We need to work for strengthening our institutions, and guard against their being attacked.
4. We need to distrust ALL politicians, a point that I have made consistently, and in the face of the weak-minded Sanghis who insist that opposition to the Sangh Parivar can only be the mindset of either a Congress or a Communist supporter.
5. We need to support our secular ideals actively, and try to bring to these positions all others whom we can persuade to change.

<sigh>

I suppose you are right.

The burnt child dreadeth the fire.

The older I get, the more apparent it has become to me that there is no hope or redemption for the beloved land. The right, left and center are all equally inept, morally corrupt in their own ways and seem incapable of the lofty vision and service delivery that one would expect from the caretakers of a nation of 1.3 billion.

 

[third eye]

The number of years I've spent telling fellow Indians this precise thing cannot be counted. I've always said that it is not for us to criticise Pakistan or Pakistani developments; we might comment on technology and on strategic implications, but in a neutral, objective way. Our integrity will be displayed by our ability to look with open eyes at our own condition and to evaluate it with humanity and a sense of justice, and belief in the rule of law.

And it is for Pakistanis to sort out Pakistani problems.

When you say the same thing, or something close enough to be a functional equivalent, I feel entitled to ask: why do other Indians get abusive when I say this very simple and straightforward thing? Why am I called a Pakistani sycophant (an ex-serviceman, @third eye, had the audacity to call me a 'Jaichand', the father-in-law - unwillingly - of Prithviraj, the king who fought the Ghori and was defeated and executed). If I do not support the lunatic fringe am I then a traitor to my people?

At the outset , allow me to wish you a happy new year , a year one hopes with happiness & good health.

I do not wish to begin the year with a slug fest however , for the record you earned the name Jaichand as far as I can recall for drafting missives on behalf of Pakistanis wherein you called terrorists freedom fighters & when pointed out you felt that since the Pakistanis ' would not accept such a term' you chose one that would suit them!

Here is a link to the exchange which led you to earn the name , starts around post 52 or thereabouts

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/an-appeal-against-the-bloodshed.439128/page-4

What you call audacity to me is conviction .

Have a good day & a good year ahead too.

 

[Joe Shearer]

At the outset , allow me to wish you a happy new year , a year one hopes with happiness & good health.

I do not wish to begin the year with a slug fest however , for the record you earned the name Jaichand as far as I can recall for drafting missives on behalf of Pakistanis wherein you called terrorists freedom fighters & when pointed out you felt that since the Pakistanis ' would not accept such a term' you chose one that would suit them!

Here is a link to the exchange which led you to earn the name , starts around post 52 or thereabouts

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/an-appeal-against-the-bloodshed.439128/page-4

What you call audacity to me is conviction .

Have a good day & a good year ahead too.

I have had no reason to change my views, either on the necessity of what I did, on behalf of very responsible and balanced personalities among the Pakistanis, or the detestable nature of your response.

 

[third eye]

I have had no reason to change my views, either on the necessity of what I did, on behalf of very responsible and balanced personalities among the Pakistanis, or the detestable nature of your response.

Well, I too maintain that the name suggested in 2016 was apt & in view of the part in bold above still fits like a glove.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Well, I too maintain that the name suggested in 2016 was apt & in view of the part in bold above still fits like a glove.

Nothing new...
Those who are able to look beyond the shadows of Nationalism and Patriotism are often branded 'traitors', 'seditious', and whatnot by jingoists like yourself ...

By the way, do you have any reliable historical evidence to back up your assertion that Jaichand was a traitor?

 

[padamchen]

Nothing new...
Those who are able to look beyond the shadows of Nationalism and Patriotism are often branded 'traitors', 'seditious', and whatnot by jingoists like yourself ...

By the way, do you have any reliable historical evidence to back up your assertion that Jai Chand was a traitor?

Bro, two VERY senior and respected Indian members. Both who have served.

I think we should allow them to sort this out between themselves. If they wish to.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Joe Shearer]

Bro, two VERY senior and respected Indian members. Both who have served.

I think we should allow them to sort this out between themselves. If they wish to.

Cheers, Doc

Forget it.

I wouldn't piss on his face if he was dying of thirst.

 

[Soumitra]

Well, I too maintain that the name suggested in 2016 was apt & in view of the part in bold above still fits like a glove.

I remember he left PDF for a month or so after the Jaichand incident. He came back because his Pakistani brothers called him.

Khaate yahaan ki hain aur gun gaate wahaan ki hain

 

[padamchen]

I remember he left PDF for a month or so after the Jaichand incident. He came back because his Pakistani brothers called him.

Khaate yahaan ki hain aur gun gaate wahaan ki hain

Have you served?

He has.

I suggest you shut up.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Soumitra]

Have you served?

He has.

I suggest you shut up.

Cheers, Doc

Serving in the army does not give him the right to lick pakistani b****s and get away with it. I will call his BS where ever I see it

 

[padamchen]

Serving in the army does not give him the right to lick pakistani b****s and get away with it. I will call his BS where ever I see it

Yes it most definitely gives him the right to be called out ONLY by someone who has served, and not a sanghi poodle.

What you are doing is pretty reprehensible bahti Ganga mein haath dhona.

Cheers, Doc

 

[M. Sarmad]

Bro, two VERY senior and respected Indian members. Both who have served.

I think we should allow them to sort this out between themselves. If they wish to.

Cheers, Doc

It's a public forum, doc

Have you gone through the entire argument?

@Joe Shearer has (repeatedly) clarified his position that he does not consider Kashmiri rebels as Freedom Fighters

@third eye is being unreasonable here and he is trying to hide behind Naam, Namak, Nishan ... He is doing the cheerleading aur chelay chantay (saffron chaddis) 'wah wah' ker rahay hain...

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel, conversely, sometimes, criticism of one's own country is the highest form of patriotism. I believe Third Eye is the scoundrel here, and Joe is the True Patriot

 

[padamchen]

It's a public forum, doc

Have you gone through the entire argument?

@Joe Shearer has (repeatedly) clarified his position that he does not consider Kashmiri rebels as Freedom Fighters

@third eye is being unreasonable here and he is trying to hide behind Naam, Namak, Nishan ... He is doing the cheerleading aur chelay chantay (saffron chaddis) 'wah wah' ker rahay hain...

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel, conversely, sometimes, criticism of one's own country is the highest form of patriotism. I believe Third Eye is the scoundrel here, and Joe is the True Patriot

Bro,

Yes. I was there when it happened.

I do not want to say anything else.

Both gentlemen know well my views.

I repeat. Military trials are not open to civilians.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Lt. Gen. Zameer Shah testifies that the Army was there on the second day, and was left high and dry by the state government failing to provide transport from the airport (the Indian Army doesn't have much of a presence in that state);

You sure about the bold part? Its a border state with Pakistan, run of Kach!