Gujarat Riots 2002

[Areesh]

There is more.

1. The Chief Minister, whose lordly inactivity allowed the bigots loose for three days, showed not a morsel of remorse;
2. The police - the bulk of them; there were honourable exceptions - blandly said that they did what they could, and the Army didn't turn up in time;
3. Lt. Gen. Zameer Shah testifies that the Army was there on the second day, and was left high and dry by the state government failing to provide transport from the airport (the Indian Army doesn't have much of a presence in that state);
4. The courts took up the matter, and punished some of the ring-leaders, while others were exonerated due to the vast number of witnesses who mysteriously 'turned hostile';
5. The Supreme Court stepped in and appointed a Special Investigation Team, under R. K. Raghavan, whom I personally respect very much. However, his team contained Gujarat police officers including the infamous Geeta Johri, herself one of the accused. Anyone who is surprised that the team found that there was insufficient evidence to prosecute the former Chief Minister may apply for the job of answering letters addressed by children the world over to Santa Claus.
6. Police officers who testified in the media were transferred, suspended and then proceeded against on various trumped up charges;
7. Other police officers who broke ranks on other serious offences were similarly punished.

Modi did nothing criminal; he did something that amounts to betrayal of his oath of office to uphold the Constitution. But that allowed criminals full freedom to brutalise men, women and children.

For the first time I agree with your post

 

[YeBeWarned]

People attacking @Joe Shearer are missing the point ,he is not saying either Hindu's were responsible or not but what he comment on that how it spread how govt did nothing to protect the minorities .

 

[Joe Shearer]

Loss of life is sad... What is the trigger to this roit?

Are you saying that there are justified riots, and unjustified riots? Are you saying that some deaths are more criminal than others?

Agreed, when law fails to take action, someone will take law into their hands.

Did the law fail to take action? Is that not a dishonest insinuation?

And you convieniently forgot the following things.
* Massacre of 56 Hindu pilgrims which included women and children. (Yes Hindus didn't start the riots). People started to spread propaganda regarding that too saying the fire was lit from within and the karsevaks burnt themselves up with there family, Lalu Prasad Yadav formed his own committee which gave such outlandish reports and the Supreme Court just threw that in the dustbin.

So that justifies taking the law into your own hands? Why don't you complete the train of thought?

* Supreme Court led SIT giving clean cheat to Modi. (Just because the SIT had officers from Gujrat police, doesn't change the fact that it was Supreme Court monitored led by a very competent officer)

1. It did not. I am sorry to see you lying on this. It merely said that there was not sufficient evidence to prosecute.
2. They/she was not any officer picked at random, she was complicit in the accusations of holding back during the riots.
3. Yes, it was the team appointed by the Supreme Court; and the team very precisely said that they could not get the evidence that would justify a prosecution. This is in the teeth of the evidence submitted by other police officers, and the reported suppression of evidence.

* Only case of communal riots in India where mass scale convictions were made, some Minister's are on death row now. (Sikh riot victims are still waiting for justice, while Rajiv Gandhi was conferred with Bharat Ratna)

And that proves what? That these were justly punished riots? Is that intended to be some kind of justification?

If you want to criticise Rajiv Gandhi, do so, by all means, I couldn't care a shit. But don't drag him into this discussion in a transparent attempt to offset one crime by another.

* Apart from the 56 innocent lives lost in Godhra, 200 Hindus were also killed during the riots for various reasons, including police firing.

Your point being? That the police sat still while the bodies of the victims were paraded right through the centre of the town, that they sat still while gangs were organised, that they allowed the riots to take place, and that they then sprang into action, and killed a few rioters?

What is your point?

* Within 30 mins after the first incident of rioting, Gujrat Govt asked for help (police personnel) from MP and Rajasthan, both Congress ruled state and both refused.

That is supposed to prove that the riots were so widespread that the state police could not control it? Is that your case? If so, why were instructions not given to stop the incendiary parading of dead bodies? That occurred well before the riots started. Were they sleeping? Or were they ordered to shut their eyes tight?

* And it's laughable when you state that the army doesn't have much of a presence in Gujrat, a state which borders Pakistan.

So laugh.

So you have not ever before demonstrated the slightest interest in matters military before, and mainly stayed on social commentary. So you cannot give us the order of battle of the Indian Army in Gujarat, and have to say the usual view from 35000 feet, that the state of Gujarat must have had an Army presence in strength, because it borders Pakistan.

Instead of demonstrating your incredible grasp of geography, why don't you give us facts? Apart from the fact that you don't know the facts, and just make pompous statements that have nothing to give them any substance?

 

[padamchen]

The fear of growing muslim population has always been a problem for hindu supremacists.


marathis are famous for this and have been doing it for years.

You know nothing and are mouthing clichés.

Marathas are inherently secular yet militantly Hindu.

No one would dare have done a Godhra in Maharashtra.

We saved the Sikhs when they were being butchered across the country.

And we overnight killed the militant Islamist underworld when it went rogue.

Never to raise its head again.

Have a Happy New Year.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Joe Shearer]

Are you sure ?
Because infront of all public ,journalists and dignitaries .Dig Vijay Singh ,a moron from Congress pointed out some of this facts .
And during the reply Mr Modi (he was CM at that time ) screwed him like anything .

Let's understand this.

You set fire to your house, to the portion that you have let out to tenants.

It catches fire satisfactorily.

You then call the neighbours to help. They refuse.

Clearly, according to your transcendent logic, the fault is that of the neighbours. You then proceed to screw the morons like anything.

He said he have the documents of Fax for requesting the immediate help from neighbouring states (at that time ruled by Congress ) and not even one showed up .
Well played politics .

And so far Congress and Mr Dig Vijay Singh kept their mouth shut .

And regarding the military , he had only completed 1 year as CM at that time and when entire state turn to chaos .
Police shoot whoever that showed up in the sight and had full of hands .


After that he elected 3 more times , become Indias most developed states ,1/5th of our exports from there .
Check the Godhras condition now .

His success showed that he was the victim of some people's politics .


On topic : Pakistan should worry about what your people doing in NWFP and Balochistan.

This 2002 thing wont get any attention anymore .All lies was just fall down .
And main culprits that played that shityy politics is now struggling to survive .



Or didnt get any help from neighbouring states

Other than whataboutery, what else do you have as an argument?

You need diamond to cut a diamond similary it takes urine to defeat troll urine indians like you on this forum
But nevertheless i believe this forum is incomplete without members like @Joe Shearer

Would it be cheeky if I pointed out that I too am a secular nationalist?

People attacking @Joe Shearer are missing the point ,he is not saying either Hindu's were responsible or not but what he comment on that how it spread how govt did nothing to protect the minorities .

Precisely. Thank you.

 

[SecularNationalist]

Would it be cheeky if I pointed out that I too am a secular nationalist?

I know you are

 

[Mugwop]

It was regrettable but in the 17 years since then Gujarat has been peaceful under Modi as cm and pm.it would be great if both godhra and Gujarat riot perpetrators are brought to justice.
There is a group of people who thoughtlessly blame Modi and call him names. They are only making the case more difficult for justice to be delivered because no substatiTive proof is shown. If Modi is found guilty the appropriate punishment to be meted out as with anyone else in any other such case .


They learnt this from the Muslim invasions.

Guess what I am not a muslim but you are a racist who hates muslims on this forum.

You know nothing and are mouthing clichés.

Marathas are inherently secular yet militantly Hindu.

No one would dare have done a Godhra in Maharashtra.

We saved the Sikhs when they were being butchered across the country.

And we overnight killed the militant Islamist underworld when it went rogue.

Never to raise its head again.

Have a Happy New Year.

Cheers, Doc

Some indian authors wrote an article on it,Plus there is some indian based cartoon on nickolodean which depicted the same thing. My post was not to offend you I am just perpetuating what your fellow countrymen said. You can refute it if you like, That's what this forum is for

 

[Placemat]

Guess what I am not a muslim but you are a racist who hates muslims on this forum.
r

Ok... yoi are entitled to your opinion.

 

[Rusty]

Are you saying that there are justified riots, and unjustified riots? Are you saying that some deaths are more criminal than others?




Did the law fail to take action? Is that not a dishonest insinuation?



So that justifies taking the law into your own hands? Why don't you complete the train of thought?

1. It did not. I am sorry to see you lying on this. It merely said that there was not sufficient evidence to prosecute.
2. They/she was not any officer picked at random, she was complicit in the accusations of holding back during the riots.
3. Yes, it was the team appointed by the Supreme Court; and the team very precisely said that they could not get the evidence that would justify a prosecution. This is in the teeth of the evidence submitted by other police officers, and the reported suppression of evidence.

And that proves what? That these were justly punished riots? Is that intended to be some kind of justification?

If you want to criticise Rajiv Gandhi, do so, by all means, I couldn't care a shit. But don't drag him into this discussion in a transparent attempt to offset one crime by another.



Your point being? That the police sat still while the bodies of the victims were paraded right through the centre of the town, that they sat still while gangs were organised, that they allowed the riots to take place, and that they then sprang into action, and killed a few rioters?

What is your point?



That is supposed to prove that the riots were so widespread that the state police could not control it? Is that your case? If so, why were instructions not given to stop the incendiary parading of dead bodies? That occurred well before the riots started. Were they sleeping? Or were they ordered to shut their eyes tight?



So laugh.

So you have not ever before demonstrated the slightest interest in matters military before, and mainly stayed on social commentary. So you cannot give us the order of battle of the Indian Army in Gujarat, and have to say the usual view from 35000 feet, that the state of Gujarat must have had an Army presence in strength, because it borders Pakistan.

Instead of demonstrating your incredible grasp of geography, why don't you give us facts? Apart from the fact that you don't know the facts, and just make pompous statements that have nothing to give them any substance?

I wish there were more of you on the internet.
Right wing nonsense (from any country) needs to be confronted by it's own people.

 

[Placemat]

You know nothing and are mouthing clichés.

Marathas are inherently secular yet militantly Hindu.

No one would dare have done a Godhra in Maharashtra.

We saved the Sikhs when they were being butchered across the country.

And we overnight killed the militant Islamist underworld when it went rogue.

Never to raise its head again.

Have a Happy New Year.

Cheers, Doc

what is the state of SIMI nowadays. They had strong MH links. there were active in UP/Bihar, Kerala/South Canara, MH. Don't hear nowadays. Have they renamed?

Are you saying that there are justified riots, and unjustified riots? Are you saying that some deaths are more criminal than others?




Did the law fail to take action? Is that not a dishonest insinuation?



So that justifies taking the law into your own hands? Why don't you complete the train of thought?

1. It did not. I am sorry to see you lying on this. It merely said that there was not sufficient evidence to prosecute.
2. They/she was not any officer picked at random, she was complicit in the accusations of holding back during the riots.
3. Yes, it was the team appointed by the Supreme Court; and the team very precisely said that they could not get the evidence that would justify a prosecution. This is in the teeth of the evidence submitted by other police officers, and the reported suppression of evidence.

And that proves what? That these were justly punished riots? Is that intended to be some kind of justification?

If you want to criticise Rajiv Gandhi, do so, by all means, I couldn't care a shit. But don't drag him into this discussion in a transparent attempt to offset one crime by another.



Your point being? That the police sat still while the bodies of the victims were paraded right through the centre of the town, that they sat still while gangs were organised, that they allowed the riots to take place, and that they then sprang into action, and killed a few rioters?

What is your point?



That is supposed to prove that the riots were so widespread that the state police could not control it? Is that your case? If so, why were instructions not given to stop the incendiary parading of dead bodies? That occurred well before the riots started. Were they sleeping? Or were they ordered to shut their eyes tight?



So laugh.

So you have not ever before demonstrated the slightest interest in matters military before, and mainly stayed on social commentary. So you cannot give us the order of battle of the Indian Army in Gujarat, and have to say the usual view from 35000 feet, that the state of Gujarat must have had an Army presence in strength, because it borders Pakistan.

Instead of demonstrating your incredible grasp of geography, why don't you give us facts? Apart from the fact that you don't know the facts, and just make pompous statements that have nothing to give them any substance?

So what do you suggest needs to be done. We all know that there was scams in the UPA govt, but they were recently thrown out due to evidence. Such is the nature of the legal beast. Sikhriots happened 18 year before Godhra. And we are getting justice today. I am certain that justice will be served to Modi or whoever was complicit.

Much respect for you Sir!
Indians like you are the reason why i stopped painting all indians with the same brush and i try to convince pakistanis that do not blame all indians.
I know in current day india it takes courage to speak truth and follow the path of moral conscience.


then why not showing the indian flag?

blame indians for what.

 

[padamchen]

what is the state of SIMI nowadays. They had strong MH links. there were active in UP/Bihar, Kerala/South Canara, MH. Don't hear nowadays. Have they renamed?


So what do you suggest needs to be done. We all know that there was scams in the UPA govt, but they were recently thrown out due to evidence. Such is the nature of the legal beast. Sikhriots happened 18 year before Godhra. And we are getting justice today. I am certain that justice will be served to Modi or whoever was complicit.


blame indians for what.

What I know is that Maharashtra will never have a Godhra.

There is a reason why India remains a Hindu country, with a secular ethos.

Much if not most of that comes from the fightback which came from this part of the land.

We will never bow. It's not in our DNA. Hindu or Muslim or Parsi makes no difference.

But we will not be vengeful chutyas either terrorising defenceless innocent folk.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Placemat]

What I know is that Maharashtra will never have a Godhra.

There is a reason why India remains a Hindu country, with a secular ethos.

Much if not most of that comes from the fightback which came from this part of the land.

We will never bow. It's not in our DNA. Hindu or Muslim or Parsi makes no difference.

But we will not be vengeful chutyas either terrorising defenceless innocent folk.

Cheers, Doc

Inshallah

 

[padamchen]

Guess what I am not a muslim but you are a racist who hates muslims on this forum.


Some indian authors wrote an article on it,Plus there is some indian based cartoon on nickolodean which depicted the same thing. My post was not to offend you I am just perpetuating what your fellow countrymen said. You can refute it if you like, That's what this forum is for

I'm not offended at all.

And I apologize for the harder than necessary language.

I'm Maratha by Indian lineage.

And I've lived among these people for 30 years now.

As one of them.

Not a Hindu. But it makes zero difference.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Joe Shearer]

I wish there were more of you on the internet.
Right wing nonsense (from any country) needs to be confronted by it's own people.

The number of years I've spent telling fellow Indians this precise thing cannot be counted. I've always said that it is not for us to criticise Pakistan or Pakistani developments; we might comment on technology and on strategic implications, but in a neutral, objective way. Our integrity will be displayed by our ability to look with open eyes at our own condition and to evaluate it with humanity and a sense of justice, and belief in the rule of law.

And it is for Pakistanis to sort out Pakistani problems.

When you say the same thing, or something close enough to be a functional equivalent, I feel entitled to ask: why do other Indians get abusive when I say this very simple and straightforward thing? Why am I called a Pakistani sycophant (an ex-serviceman, @third eye, had the audacity to call me a 'Jaichand', the father-in-law - unwillingly - of Prithviraj, the king who fought the Ghori and was defeated and executed). If I do not support the lunatic fringe am I then a traitor to my people?

 

[Placemat]

The number of years I've spent telling fellow Indians this precise thing cannot be counted. I've always said that it is not for us to criticise Pakistan or Pakistani developments; we might comment on technology and on strategic implications, but in a neutral, objective way. Our integrity will be displayed by our ability to look with open eyes at our own condition and to evaluate it with humanity and a sense of justice, and belief in the rule of law.

And it is for Pakistanis to sort out Pakistani problems.

When you say the same thing, or something close enough to be a functional equivalent, I feel entitled to ask: why do other Indians get abusive when I say this very simple and straightforward thing? Why am I called a Pakistani sycophant (an ex-serviceman, @third eye, had the audacity to call me a 'Jaichand', the father-in-law - unwillingly - of Prithviraj, the king who fought the Ghori and was defeated and executed). If I do not support the lunatic fringe am I then a traitor to my people?

Some people know not to put their hands into a lions cage because they can understand consequences . Some people need to put their hands in the cage to understand why they should not be putting their hands in there.