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Foreign Technologies in the C919

Not a meaningful analysis. Nowadays, any complex product has inputs from all over the world. For example,

The following is a list of some of the biggest suppliers on the 787, where they are based and what they are producing.

BRITAIN​

Rolls-Royce (engines)

Some of these are just options available.

For instance you list Rolls-Royce for engines but that is an option for airlines to choose. You can chose either Rolls-Royce or GE GEnX engines. The plane design is flexible enough to handle either.


Of course some are actual requirements. For instance there is one company in Europe that only does landing gear tech and I'm sure Boeing has them as their sole supplier and I think Mitsubishi may be the sole supplier for the wingbox.
 
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It's due to certification with the FAA, and also to keep the trade balanced. Except for the engines, there is nothing that is too complex. Most of the components are made in China from their local JVs. But since the start of the trade war, China does not give a damn anymore, we used to close an eye to. Balance the trade so US can earn some money to buy our stuff. And FAA certification is not a must anymore, we will ban FAA certification in the future if there is no mutual recognition. I believe Europe have mutual recognition with China.
Of course FAA certification is not a must IF China want to ignore it.


The problem is...

Cell phones do not kill people. Cars, boats, and airplanes -- do. Statistically speaking, air travel is safer than car travel, but whenever an aviation mishap occurs, it is %99 percent fatal for all involved. The US is the world's leader in aviation. China is still a child, and I say that kindly. If the US refused to recognize China's aviation standards, what do you think the rest of the world will do? Here is something else you might want to consider.

Many airports have special certifications for PILOTS to land, those that do not require still want pilots to qualify to international standards for training.


Foreign aircraft may fly in the U.S. if they have an airworthiness certificate equivalent to a U.S. standard airworthiness certificate.​

So just because the C919 is certified by China to land at domestic airports, that does not mean other countries will allow the C919 to land at their airports, even if they do not buy and fly the C919. If something bad happens at an airport, it could hold up operations for who knows how long.


(FAA) Aircraft Certification Service includes more than 1,300 engineers, scientists, inspectors, test pilots and other experts. They are responsible for oversight of design, production, airworthiness certification, and continued airworthiness programs for all U.S. civil aviation products and foreign import products. The FAA collaborates with the International Civil Aviation Organization and other civil aviation authorities to maintain and advance the safety of international air transportation.
The Certification Process
The FAA's aircraft certification processes are well established and have consistently assured safe aircraft designs. As part of any certification project, we conduct the following:​
  • Review any proposed designs and the methods that will be used to show that these designs and the overall airplane complies with FAA standards
  • Conduct certain ground and flight tests to demonstrate that the airplane meets the FAA standards
  • Evaluate the airplane to determine the required maintenance and operational suitability for introduction of the aircraft into service
  • Work with other civil aviation authorities on their approval of the aircraft, based primarily on work already completed by the FAA

Did YOU actually performed basic research before you post? What does the highlighted mean? It mean China simply cannot 'ban' or ignore FAA certification without international consequences. Those 'other civil aviation authorities' will wonder why. Of course, China can always resort to bribery. I will admit money does talk if applied to the appropriate people.

Let us know when China hire YOU as civil aviation consultant on how to deal with the US.:enjoy:

Hey just keep it up. I guess we should all be lucky this forum is in English and not Chinese.
They come here because they get to learn a lot about issues they cannot access from China and/or from fellow Chinese elsewhere. But they cannot admit their ignorance so they have to resort to cheap insults to maintain face.
 
Remember, countries banned the 737 Max from their airports.


The full list of countries and airlines that have announced a ban is below:​

But here on PDF, we see Chinese casually talks of banning FAA certification with no consequences. :rolleyes:

The CCP bots and loyal coterie/sycophants here just live in their make believe world of delusion regarding institutional power of the US and why and how it formed and perseveres.

Its been that way ever since the daddy complex formed by US doing the heavy lifting in putting Japan where it needed to be.

Deep down they know what their state would be now without daddy. One only need to read in depth the large incompetence and cowardliness of their army (given its size) in that time that really has no parallel in 20th century at least.

i.e possibility of even learning and talking in Chinese today as basic cultural heritage (if even alive to begin with).... yeah I don't think so.

So from that deep self-hate and ingratitude comes the CCP complex.

It's a zero sum psyche and they get addicted to it....and this place got addicted to having them around too lol.

Thats why a lot of messed up things happen in China daily (regd way basic people act towards each other in certain situations) that are unthinkable in US and West....and many other parts of world.
 
Some of these are just options available.

For instance you list Rolls-Royce for engines but that is an option for airlines to choose. You can chose either Rolls-Royce or GE GEnX engines. The plane design is flexible enough to handle either.


Of course some are actual requirements. For instance there is one company in Europe that only does landing gear tech and I'm sure Boeing has them as their sole supplier and I think Mitsubishi may be the sole supplier for the wingbox.
Not just Mitsubishi. Bulk of the carbon fiber know-how comes from these 'Heavys'

Toray Industries (carbon composite fiber)

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (wings)

Kawasaki Heavy Industries (forward fuselage)

Fuji Heavy Industries (centre wing box)

And talking of GEnX, it is designed at:

 

And talking of GEnX, it is designed at:


Why do you think that research center in Bangalore is the main research center for the GEnX?

GE has research centers not only there and the US but all over the world including in:
China
Japan
Brazil
Israel
Germany
Canada
Singapore
South Korea
Mexico
UK
France
Australia
 
Why do you think that research center in Bangalore is the main research center for the GEnX?

GE has research centers not only there and the US but all over the world including in:
China
Japan
Brazil
Israel
Germany
Canada
Singapore
South Korea
Mexico
UK
France
Australia
Just an example to show that most modern civilian technology is sourced from all over the world. Sometimes from unexpected places. So, this argument about C919 being a western plane made in China or a 'true' Chinese plane is absurd. It is no more western than a 787 is Japanese/European.
 

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Foreign technologies in Boeing 787
 
So apart from the air frames, nothing is Chinese? But it seems like a smart move for faster airworthiness certificate.
 
Well at least it's a good start in this industry. Eventually China will come back with 100% indigenous programs in a matter of few years like they have always done.

I mean
While this is 100% correct, and the C919 shouldn't be called a complete or even near complete indigenous plane, it is however a very good important first step to a complete 100% Chinese plane.

This is also probably the cheapest and easiest way to develop new plane, as it gives China valuable data so they can develop their own versions of the tech being used.

We already know they've developed an alternative engine for the CFM LEAP-1 which is going through testing, they're probably working on the other tech as we speak.

If COMAC plans to produce 150 C919's and almost 200 ARJ-21's a year (ten years down the line) - they will need to have (for example) electrical and undercarriage suppliers like Bendix and Honeywell.

These systems will be easy peasy to reverse engineer, given Chinese existing excellence in these electronic and mechanical areas. Maybe there are suppliers in China for these items already.

They just have to ramp up the precision using CNC and Laser guided cutting equipment to improve quality and consistency which I'm sure they're already doing.

When the Chinese become lower cost supplier for these systems, where will Bendix and Honeywell go?

All I can say is good luck and it was a good hundred year run, boys.

The days of making money off of foreign folks who don't know any better are over for some monopolists.
 
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So apart from the air frames, nothing is Chinese? But it seems like a smart move for faster airworthiness certificate.
don't underestimate how hard its to design and build the air-frame of such civilian jets .
there is a reason that a limited number of companies are able to build or even assemble such planes .
 
C919 componentd are 60% domestically made so far, not much different from major aircrafts made by other countries. The reason why China works with foreign partners is for quick airworthiness certificate attainment.

China also believes foreign partners can be a powerful lobbying force in the west to help C 919 to break into western aviation market.

China has jumbo aircrafts like Y 20 being in operation for a decade. Most technology and material in C919 are actually from Y-20.

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