For those who make fun at China's jet engine

[vsdave2302]

The J-10 ECM could be superior. We won't know until there is direct combat.

We do know the J-10 flies higher, faster, and the PL-12 has a longer range than the Rafale Mica.

The Rafale is clearly at a disadvantage. The J-10 has look-down shoot-down domination over Rafale.

I have seen some poor display on airshow for J10 with a pathatic STR, Verticle loop timing etc. Lots of videos are available on you tube.

 

[Martian2]

I know. Nothng is crdible for the gang of people like you, Beast Buedo, cirr etc Your wishfull thinking exposed on forum like this is the only credible source and not the numbers of articles published in West, China, Russia etc. Keep enjoying your wishful thinking. I do not want to come in way.

Give me a break. Only a moron cites WantChinaTimes. There articles are full of factual inaccuracies.

Serious military enthusiasts cite IHS Janes, AviationWeek, GlobalSecurity, FlightGlobal, etc.

No one cites WantChinaTimes or StrategyPage. Get a clue.

 

[vsdave2302]

Give me a break. Only a moron cites WantChinaTimes. There articles are full of factual inaccuracies.

Serious military enthusiasts cite IHS Janes, AviationWeek, GlobalSecurity, FlightGlobal, etc.

No one cites WantChinaTimes or StrategyPage. Get a clue.

Since you guy wanted a reference from Chinese paper so I cited China times. Google China purchase Su 35. Hundreds of cites will open for the articles published accross the world.

 

[j20dragon]

I know. Nothng is crdible for the gang of people like you, Beast Buedo, cirr etc Your wishfull thinking exposed on forum like this is the only credible source and not the numbers of articles published in West, China, Russia etc. Keep enjoying your wishful thinking. I do not want to come in way.

Listen to me, listen to me my Indian friend. Now it is your time to prove your Indian worth or shut up.

 

[Martian2]

Well , looks like I have to break it down for you, How many J10's and J11's did you make from 2011-2013? Did you completely utilize all imported engines.
And yes with your break through in your project in 2014, you imported around 300 Al31's a couple of years ago..That does make perfect sense.

There is no question that China mass produces the WS-10A engine.

The question of replacing existing aircraft with the WS-10A engine is very complicated.

For example, there are questions regarding:

1. Retraining all of the maintenance and repair crew.
2. Compatibility issues regarding replacing AL-31F with WS-10A. The fuselage sizes may be different.
3. Using up the existing inventory of AL-31F engines
4. The Russian may be the lowest-cost producer and thus it is currently more economical for China to buy AL-31F instead of producing hundreds of WS-10A
5. Waiting for more reliability data on WS-10A before installation on single-engine fighters. This is a safety issue.
6. Training more personnel in manufacturing WS-10A to desired quality levels
7. WS-10A engineers may be in scarce supply due to multiple engine projects, such as WS-15 and WS-20.

Get a brain. There are many reasons that China has not fully replaced all existing AL-31F engines. The seven reasons that I mentioned are not a complete list. However, it is indisputable that MANY Chinese fighters (and in increasingly more numbers) are equipped with domestic engines.

 

[vsdave2302]

Listen to me, listen to me my Indian friend. Now it is your time to prove your Indian worth or shut up.

OK I shut up but hundreds of article on web will not. Are you happy now? Bye bye.

 

[Martian2]

Since you guy wanted a reference from Chinese paper so I cited China times. Google China purchase Su 35. Hundreds of cites will open for the articles published accross the world.

The Chinese Ministry of Defense had officially denied the Su-35 rumors a few years ago.

Why are Indians flooding the Chinese threads with ridiculous rumors?
___________________________________________________________________________
Chinese Ministry of National Defense has already said "no" to Su-35

Beijing Denies Russian Rumors of Su-35 Purchase; Evaluating China's Intelligence Penetration of Taiwan | The Jamestown Foundation

"Beijing Denies Russian Rumors of Su-35 Purchase; Evaluating China's Intelligence Penetration of Taiwan
Publication: China Brief Volume: 12 Issue: 6
March 15, 2012 03:57 PM Age: 1 year
By: Peter Mattis

Is the Su-35 Bound for China?
BEIJING DENIES RUSSIAN RUMORS OF SU-35 FIGHTER PURCHASE

Last week, Russian media reported Moscow was close to finalizing a $4 billion deal for 48 Su-35s with Beijing. The reported sticking point was that the Russian side wanted greater assurances that Chinese engineers would not reverse engineer the Su-35 and put it into domestic production like the Su-27, which is the model for China’s J-11 (Taipei Times, March 9; Kommersant, March 8; RIA Novosti, March 6). The report by the Russian newspaper Kommersant has generated a flurry of Western commentary; however, there is a striking difference between the Chinese-language and foreign-language coverage of this issue. China’s Ministry of National Defense (MND) has denied emphatically that such a deal is in the works, stating the press coverage is “not in accord with the facts” and the Su-35 “does not fit China’s national situation” (Caixun, March 12; Global Times, March 12). This discrepancy undermines Western analysis of the strategic implications of this announcement and suggests China’s defense aerospace industry is making sufficient progress to meet its military needs.

In a widely reprinted interview, Major General Wei Gang, a senior officer in the People’s Liberation Army Air Force’s (PLAAF) Armaments Department from 2004 to 2011, spoke about the PLAAF’s success in using indigenous innovation (zizhu chuangxin) to meet equipment needs. General Wei touted the J-10 as such an example, while conspicuously avoiding the J-11. Perhaps most importantly, Wei commented that the copying of foreign equipment does not get the PLAAF what it needs and “we must develop forces that meet the needs of China’s developmental circumstances” (China Central Broadcasting, March 9; People’s Net, March 9).

This interview, in combination with MND’s denial, suggests the Kommersant report may be simply rumor—or, alternatively, Beijing is trying to save face by denying the Su-35 deal was ever serious, knowing China’s aerospace industry would not honor the Russian request not to reverse engineer their technology. Giving credence to Beijing’s story over the Russian version suggests Chinese aerospace firms finally may be producing jet engines of the quality needed for advanced fighters—an area where they long have struggled [1]. At a minimum, the Chinese story, if true, would indicate the PLAAF does have its development well in hand and does not have a projected fighter shortfall like the United States and Taiwan."

 

[j20dragon]

OK I shut up but hundreds of article on web will not. Are you happy now? Bye bye.

As I said, listen to me my friend. I am given you a GOLDEN opportunity to prove your Indian worth here. Take it or leave it. But you must remember that the news about Su35 deal have been circulating for years, yet NOT A SINGLE Chinese pilot that I know heard anything regarding "impending Su-35 in PLAAF arsenal". You need to use your brain a lot more if you want others to respect you. This is an advice to you.

 

[axisofevil]

it just a matter of three or five years before out main engine achieving success, be patient. We are doomed to be a great nation and dynasty in the history, we Chinese hard working and benevolent people. we didn't I intrude anyone even in our peak time in the history, look how African and Latin American suffered from those so called civilized white Babarians hundreds years ago. No matter how Advanced whites is , they are still Barbarians.I always look down on whites, cause they are Babarics. When the Babarics have the technology, the world will be in mess and trouble. cause they can't control the devil living in their hearts and to plot on others.文化底蕴很重要，美国只不过是一个暴发户罢了。

I see you have sympathy for the African and Latin American countries suffering from the so called civilied white barbarians, yet whenever India is brought up....its a different story. Go figure...

The reported sticking point was that the Russian side wanted greater assurances that Chinese engineers would not reverse engineer the Su-35 and put it into domestic production like the Su-27, which is the model for China’s J-11

 

[Beidou2020]

oops

Chengdu J-10 powered by Saturn-Lyulka AL-31FN

Shenyang J-11 powered by Saturn-Lyulka AL-31FN

Xian JH-7 powered by Rolls-Royce Spey Mk 202

Shenyang J-8 powered by twin Chinese variant of Tumansky R-13-300 turbojet

Chengdu J-7 powered by Chinese variant of Tumansky R-13-300 turbojet

Xian H-6 powered by Mikulin AM-3

Hongdu JL8 powered by Garrett TFE731-2A-2A turbofan

Hongdu L-15 powered by 2 × Ivchenko Progress AI-222K-25F afterburning turbofans

Harbin Y-12 powered by 2 × Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-27 turboprop

Shaanxi Y-8 powered by 4 x License-built copy of the Turbomeca Turmo

Xian H-6 powered by 2 x Mikulin AM-3

J31 powered by 2 x Rd 33

J20 Powered by 2 x Saturn-Lyulka AL-31FN

China is now equipping all its new J-10B/C, J-11B/C and J-16 with the domestic WS-10 engine.

China no longer needs Russian engines for 4th generation fighters.

Only the older J-10A and J11A still use Russian engines as they haven't been modified to fly with the WS-10 engines.

China has now proven that it's fully independent in mass producing engines which makes exports possible and in a war time scenario, it is crucial.

 

[Brainsucker]

lol then you dont know how many people died for the CFM 53 engine used in Boeing 737, it went past 1,000 the other day and will only be more if the engine are still in circulation.

Do you mean the passengers of 737 who died in many incident? I can't argue you for this.

 

[antonius123]

I think people has no doubt that china can make gas turbine.

The question is: how reliable and availability of the chinese gas turbine? can the GT mean time between overhoul comparable with the world leader like GE, P&W, RR, Snecma, etc?

 

[damiendehorn]

The WS10a is pretty much a mature engine now, begining mass production. The fact that China is using the WS10a's core to create a high bypass engine for the Y20 more or less indicates that the engine has achieve its core requirments. The next stage is to further develope it and produce a uprated version with greater thrust to weight ratio, meantime between replacement and increased reliability.

 

[Edison Chen]

China can make the world's best engine in any minute if the scientific environment is bettered in the future. There is corruption in fund distribution stage, political deterrence still exists, smart and capable scientists may not be so good at those bureaucratese stuff, while those mediocres could get abundant scientific resources while doing nothing but to please their upper level officials.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I think people has no doubt that china can make gas turbine.

The question is: how reliable and availability of the chinese gas turbine? can the GT mean time between overhoul comparable with the world leader like GE, P&W, RR, Snecma, etc?

The Type 052C/D went into the mass production stage, so it is pretty reliable now.

And we initially only built two Type 052C because the gas turbine was the licensed GT25000.