Ex-PTI members join here

[LeGenD]

Civil Disobedience card is just a political stunt to put additional pressure on the government to come to terms with demands of PTI at some level. This political stunt was intended to attract maximum foreign attention to build additional pressure on the government and it succeeded. Here is proof of international attention: Google

The next 24 - 48 hours are crucial.

 

[Hyde]

Let's have a friendly discussion, why do you have a problem with this statement?

, let's wait and see.

There should be some ethics between two opposing parties/groups. Imran being a leader of one of the biggest party in Pakistan must be extra careful for not uttering words that may create chaos in the country.

Any call for civil disobedience in the country is a matter of grave concern. We were thinking he may do something that will threaten the government and stop, then we thought this is the next limit before he reverts back, now he is almost on the verge of clashing with the entire statement. The way he has been showing his lust for the power is a matter of great concern for me.

The language he used today against other political parties, the demands he is presenting before the government, the anarchy like situation he is trying to create in the country, the consequences of such a situation would be of grave concern. There will be no way to revert back to where he is standing, see I was against the Azadi march, even the majority on PDF in the recently conducted poll was against the Azadi march. This is the public who was all in favour of PTI before the elections. See today's poll they once again showed displeasure over the stance and demands taken by IK. Imran Khan is gradually becoming a joke in front of his own party members and his party workers. He need to be patient and let the machinery of system work and focus more on performance in KPK and reforms in election commission etc.

See MQM manages to gather 100,000 - 500,000 people easily on a short notice in Karachi, Imran Khan too managed to hold large public gatherings last year, Nawaz Sharif too managed to hold large public gatherings in Punjab and so did Asif Ali Zardari. The people of Pakistan has apparently disapproved this Azadi march and only 20,000 - 30,000 people are present there. That is not even a small rally of other major political parties. PTI itself manages to gather more people for public gatherings.

This whole episode of Azadi march was miscalculated and could only be successful if held in August 2015 or 2016. PTI needed to wait and continue to make improvement in KPK so they could ask for votes on the basis of performance. Everything that PTI is doing these days is ill advised by some nonsensical people which Imran Khan is keen to listen to for unknown reason

 

[LeGenD]

Ok, suppose that PTI calls off the Azadi march and its efforts to push for reforms do not work in parliament and judiciary, haven't worked for over a year by the way. As IK pointed out, Nawaz Sharif bribes everybody in this country.

So how do the people, who are criticizing PTI, expect reforms? Any strategy?

 

[Jango]

There should be some ethics between two opposing parties/groups. Imran being a leader of one of the biggest party in Pakistan must be extra careful for not uttering words that may create chaos in the country.

Any call for civil disobedience in the country is a matter of grave concern. We were thinking he may do something that will threaten the government and stop, then we thought this is the next limit before he reverts back, now he is almost on the verge of clashing with the entire statement. The way he has been showing his lust for the power is a matter of great concern for me.

The language he used today against other political parties, the demands he is presenting before the government, the anarchy like situation he is trying to create in the country, the consequences of such a situation would be of grave concern. There will be no way to revert back to where he is standing, see I was against the Azadi march, even the majority on PDF in the recently conducted poll was against the Azadi march. This is the public who was all in favour of PTI before the elections. See today's poll they once again showed displeasure over the stance and demands taken by IK. Imran Khan is gradually becoming a joke in front of his own party members and his party workers. He need to be patient and let the machinery of system work and focus more on performance in KPK and reforms in election commission etc.

See MQM manages to gather 100,000 - 500,000 people easily on a short notice in Karachi, Imran Khan too managed to hold large public gatherings last year, Nawaz Sharif too managed to hold large public gatherings in Punjab and so did Asif Ali Zardari. The people of Pakistan has apparently disapproved this Azadi march and only 20,000 - 30,000 people are present there. That is not even a small rally of other major political parties. PTI itself manages to gather more people for public gatherings.

This whole episode of Azadi march was miscalculated and could only be successful if held in August 2015 or 2016. PTI needed to wait and continue to make improvement in KPK so they could ask for votes on the basis of performance. Everything that PTI is doing these days is ill advised by some nonsensical people which Imran Khan is keen to listen to for unknown reason

I respect your opinion an understand where you are coming from.

But first please try and understand civil disobedience. It doesn't mean let's start bashing up everything, it is a symbolic movement and in the current context, simply political maneuvering.

Had he wanted anarchy, he would have called his protestors to march towards PM house, but he hasn't...because he knows it won't be good for anyone.

This is for putting pressure on government, and from what I have heard and seen, the tactic is working.

Govt has announced negotiation teams, and tomorrow (rather today) they will meet. Govt will now be forced to accept demands for electoral reforms and such.

I say again, before forming your final opinion, please wait for two more days.

And I assure you, if anything violent happens, it will happen because of TuQ, not PTI. And this civil disobedience call was exactly for that. To fend off violence. What else would he have said? Let's attack PM House...let's give alternatives...what do you have in mind?

 

[Jungibaaz]

@Aether

I didn't see this thread until now, but just now, I announced my official putting down of my PTI badge.

PTI's Azadi March 14th August 2014 l Updates and debate. | Page 124

 

[Hyde]

I respect your opinion an understand where you are coming from.

But first please try and understand civil disobedience. It doesn't mean let's start bashing up everything, it is a symbolic movement and in the current context, simply political maneuvering.

Had he wanted anarchy, he would have called his protestors to march towards PM house, but he hasn't...because he knows it won't be good for anyone.

This is for putting pressure on government, and from what I have heard and seen, the tactic is working.

Govt has announced negotiation teams, and tomorrow (rather today) they will meet. Govt will now be forced to accept demands for electoral reforms and such.

I say again, before forming your final opinion, please wait for two more days.

And I assure you, if anything violent happens, it will happen because of TuQ, not PTI. And this civil disobedience call was exactly for that. To fend off violence. What else would he have said? Let's attack PM House...let's give alternatives...what do you have in mind?

well he has already pronounced himself as Prime Minister Imran Khan. Like we see in Bollywood movies that a business turned politician often dreaming about being a Prime Minister They have already given the agenda of what they want to do

• Humiliate Prime Minister and CM of Punjab. Targeting their family and probably sending them to prison, spewing hatred against them in Punjab just like they did with PPP and MQM back in 1990s.
• Only listen to the government after the brothers has resigned or else keep the drama baazi continue
• Prime Minister Imran Khan comes to the power anyhow
• In order for him to become Prime Minister, the government must be replaced with temporary set up of Imran's desire for Technocratic government or his parties desire of "apolitical" government
• There is really less talk of reforms that must have been the prime agenda - he is more focused about going personal with PML-N leadership

Actions speaks louder than hypothetical scenarios, thus far he is just indicating of violating red zone, even the statements of poor policemen will be killed explains the essence of extreme, complete shut down of country and deliberately destroying country's economy, not allowing the government to work so they miss targets etc

Any scenario is bad for the country whatever I can think of right now

 

[Luftwaffe]

Definitely not civil disobedience and IK has no plan himself, what has his party done with KPK to show that he is capable of fulfilling his mandate?

Hi, I understand so this means let the current Gov rule for the next 4 years, thus people do not want change by any means. Like I said lets forget IK/PTI and whatever people may label them, I am asking for the solution from members who do not support PTI anymore how do they intend to stop in the long run corrupt political parties that ha made and purchased entire system/departments judiciary, nadra, ECP and so on..who is going to clean it all what is the the real solution clearly elections every 5 years is not the Answer never was. You see I am asking for the solution and I am not getting the solution but bashing and rants from people. I do not know what would be the outcome for IK/PTI...atleast it would a single political party in the History of Pakistan to have tired to remove corrupt system/parties...that is another thing that people want to be slave to this system and Kings parties like pml-n/ppp.

I personally would be remotely willing to let pml-n rule with new faces and clean personalities but than there must be some real changes likes nawaz sharif and family will have to leave politics forever as by law he is in debt did not pay billions and also the cases against him are in NAB and all the lists of proven cases, those involved in model town killing must be sent to jail, sharif family will have to bring back their billions, raiwind would have to be handed over and the countless other changes....so lets be honest could it be done easily will next 4 years fix things do you think Pakistan would ever come out of every increasing debts I told you people before election mr. dar the so called experience financial guru this idiot is called has one solution stop at IMF/WB and exactly this is what he had done.

@Aether your SOLUTION Thanks...clearly elections on time is not the solution the system is dirty inside out. And what is the problem with people democracy is never derailed in Japan every year atleast couple of PMs and cabinet changes.

 

[Jungibaaz]

On a side note, I was against this Azadi march as soon as I heard of it, it should not have been made for 14th August. You do not use a public holiday and national celebration for your own political gains. You should not mess with people's emotions.

Anyone waving a party flag on 14th Aug should stop and think about what they're doing and what it means for that day, only ever fly green and white on such a day. It is meant for reconciliation, unity and reflection. 14 August is the only day of the year we feel and act like a nation, it should not be hijacked like this.

What came after, what actually happened in this march is a different story.

 

[syedali73]

I am neither a PTI supporter nor a voter but I do think that a third and even fourth political power is needed to end the musical chair game between PML(N) and PPP.

 

[Hyde]

your SOLUTION Thanks...clearly elections on time is not the solution the system is dirty inside out. And what is the problem with people democracy is never derailed in Japan every year atleast couple of PMs and cabinet changes.

I am not against mid term elections but the mechanism to hold free and fair elections must be there in place. Election commission has only become weaker and more controversial thanks to PTI so it is not in a position to hold another elections at immediate notice.

In Japan they mostly changed Prime Minister every year due to the the Prime Minister losing vote of confidence/lack of public support. They did not held elections every year but only reshuffled the entire cabinet including Prime Minister. Besides that, Japan can easily manage to hold elections every year because they have established process of elections that is trialled and tested and acknowledged by all parties. In Pakistan this is not a case right now

 

[Luftwaffe]

I am not against mid term elections but the mechanism to hold free and fair elections must be there in place. Election commission has only become weaker and more controversial thanks to PTI so it is not in a position to hold another elections at immediate notice.

In Japan they mostly changed Prime Minister every year due to the the Prime Minister losing vote of confidence/lack of public support. They did not held elections every year but only reshuffled the entire cabinet including Prime Minister. Besides that, Japan can easily manage to hold elections every year because they have established process of elections that is trialled and tested and acknowledged by all parties. In Pakistan this is not a case right now

I Just want to know where IK/PTI is wrong and what is your Solution if you have any better permanent solution to the problems.

By the way ECP lot will have to go home too when nawaz govt is oust i am sure parties will have fair people in list to be put on duty for next Election. If reshuffling cabinet can fix things I personally would approve it but than the duty of the new team would be to punish old team including registering cases and suspending members involved in corruption and whatever, in Japan they do have a strong proper system do you think the new cabinet would do it against own party people and other involved in rigging/corruption.

 

[Hyde]

I Just want to know where IK/PTI is wrong and what is your Solution if you have any better permanent solution to the problems.

Solution is simple

• Stop this nonsense of anarchy march by agreeing to the government's offer and speaking to them over the matter of concern
• Raise concerns in the parliament and raise it on regular basis (speak everyday if you have to) so people knows that you are raising voice at the appropriate platform
• Reduce this habit of marches everyday and pressure government to take every good step which PTI wants to take in their tenure (for the sake of this country).
• Work towards reforms in the election commission as first priority
• Pressurise government for introducing electronic voting machines and take some steps for early introduction and trial in bi-elections within the next 12 months
• deliver in KPK and ask for vote based on performance
• Take steps that bring the people closer to each other
• Stop this politics of going personal and focus on criticising policies and exposing corruption

Some of the suggestions I had mentioned in the following thread

Do you support Azadi March?

By the way ECP lot will have to go home too when nawaz govt is oust i am sure parties will have fair people in list to be put on duty for next Election. If reshuffling cabinet can fix things I personally would approve it but than the duty of the new team would be to punish old team including registering cases and suspending members involved in corruption and whatever, .

What is the guarantee that the new election commission will be fair? Won't the other parties including PML-N gather march against PTI if PTI wins the next election and even if the new election commission is fair. PTI has proposed an agenda that it seems like want a set up that clearly favours them only. We can't tolerate any set up that favours one party over another. It has to be the level playing field for all.

in Japan they do have a strong proper system do you think the new cabinet would do it against own party people and other involved in rigging/corruption.

In japan what is happening is similar to what happened during the recession in Europe. For example Tony blair had to resign and replaced by Gordon brown. It is entirely a different matter and cannot be compared with Pakistan, period

 

[Luftwaffe]

Solution is simple

• Stop this nonsense of anarchy march by agreeing to the government's offer and speaking to them over the matter of concern
• Work towards reforms in the election commission as first priority
• Pressurise government for introducing electronic voting machines and take some steps for early introduction and trial in bi-elections within the next 12 months
• deliver in KPK and ask for vote based on performance
• Take steps that bring the people closer to each other
• Stop this politics of going personal and focus on criticising policies and exposing corruption

Some of the suggestions I had mentioned in the following thread

Do you support Azadi March?

What is the guarantee that the new election commission will be fair? Won't the other parties including PML-N gather march against PTI if PTI wins the next election and even if the new election commission is fair. PTI has proposed an agenda that it seems like want a set up that clearly favours them only. We can't tolerate any set up that favours one party over another. It has to be the level playing field for all.

What about the rigging that took place how will be held responsible for or is it going to be another miti pao. Although we know they have already changed results with the help of ECP/NADRA but what if..what if it is proven noon leauge was involved in rigging would you still want mr. PM sharif and his honest cabinet continue. Jabab thi is not the complete solution, those responsible in all depts will have to be brought to justice and results and complete information/names would have to be released and people sent to jail. exposing corruption and criticiding is not solution alone when you can't prosecute them...when they are exposed as current sharif family is exposed what they and their followers say is that is a lie and everything goes under the carpet again no a solution again!.

pml-n? it would be history those proven to be guilty and corrupt would be oust by law by free and fair judiciary infact party proven to have done corruption etc can under law be banned for 5 year term. since no cases are against PTI, pml-n can come out and do a dharna jasla 24/7 for next 5 years. Did you see level playing field in past 15 years? No...you have currently no solution what you are asking for in short is called just hush and wait for next elections.

 

[Hyde]

What about the rigging that took place how will be held responsible for or is it going to be another miti pao. Although we know they have already changed results with the help of ECP/NADRA but what if..what if it is proven noon leauge was involved in rigging would you still want mr. PM sharif and his honest cabinet continue. Jabab thi is not the complete solution, those responsible in all depts will have to be brought to justice and results and complete information/names would have to be released and people sent to jail. exposing corruption and criticiding is not solution alone when you can't prosecute them...when they are exposed as current sharif family is exposed what they and their followers say is that is a lie and everything goes under the carpet again no a solution again!.

pml-n? it would be history those proven to be guilty and corrupt would be oust by law by free and fair judiciary infact party proven to have done corruption etc can under law be banned for 5 year term. since no cases are against PTI, pml-n can come out and do a dharna jasla 24/7 for next 5 years. Did you see level playing field in past 15 years? No...you have currently no solution what you are asking for in short is called just hush and wait for next elections.

I can speak on behalf of the people I met, I was in Pakistan those days, asked about 2000 people about whom they are hoping to vote for. 80% of them were the voters of PML-N. When somebody asked me whom are you going to vote for, I said the party that isn't going to win from this city... and they asked whom, I said PTI ... That's a truth. One of my relative is the president of youth wing of PTI, another acquaintance was working in the regional office of PTI, I asked both of them and they agreed that PTI had no chance to win in our constituency.

I can't speak on behalf of every party but in my constituency from 8am to 10am majority of the people reached to polling booth were PTI voters with most of them voting for the first time in their life including myself. But the voters of PML-N and PML-Q continued to visit the polling booth until 5pm.

The bottom line is, a party rising from dust to grab 7.7 million votes is almost like a miracle come true. If there was 0 rigging in the election may be PTI may have won 5-10 more seats but a difference of another 7 million votes is never possible. PML-N was clearly the largest standout party and it has historically been dominated the region of punjab so nothing of a surprise for anybody.

People enjoy allegations when the elections are near but once the votes has been casted and all the parties accepted results, it was time to move on and focus on improving the life of the people in the space given to you by the public. PTI need to perform in KPK, The biggest issue for PML-N has been is that they did not take the demand of PTI so seriously... Even if the demand was met and even today if fresh elections held there is no chance that PML-N would not have been the largest party in Pakistan.

The biggest vote bank of PTI is overseas Pakistanis followed by educated people, students and working professionals of Pakistan. The vote bank of PPP, PML-N and PML-Q is of the grass root level

 

[qamar1990]

I didn't vote for this poll because I'm not a PTI supporter/voter but I support Nawaz Sharif should resign and mid term elections should be held under international watch.

why under international watch??? you must be joking…. screw other countries we have our army..