Era of wars over, ready to resolve all issues with India: Pakistan

[RazPaK]

we didn't take Bangladesh back in 1971 why you believe that we want to merge pakistan with us ? Not a single valid reason is there.

Instead of occupying Bangladesh, you left your mark by installing puppets which might lead to India absorbing Bangladesh once again in the future.

 

[Subramanian]

They already have man.. look around...
Your guard was down the second you abandoned your values and adapted theirs.
When your religion was sold by the hour at the mosque thanks to an establishment hell bent on keepings its stature no matter what the cost.

What is needed now is time to repair our nation, rebuild our economy.. and remove the takfiri elements from our society.
Peace with India buys all that.. this false façade of lower jihad that has been drilled into nubile minds is idiotic.
If you go to war with India today.. with what you have.. as is the state of your nation;
you along with all those lofty jingoistic folks will find their perceptions blown to smithereens.
Islam does not encourage suicide in the name of courage.
Nobody wants you to grovel at India's feet.. or bend over...
The pragmatic approach you claim to follow is exactly what is being discussed.
Pragmatism is linking practice and theory.
practical experience shows that we are now incapable of tackling our issues with India militarily, theory shows that this condition will continue(and possibly lead to our eventual self destruction) unless we fix ourselves.. and begets the practical option to pursue peace with India for now..rebuild yourself,aim to sustain that peace but be prepared for any eventuality.
That preparation for any eventuality has costs that include requires a powerful economy and a strong sense of nationhood that embodies religious harmony which can only be achieved via peace with India for now.. and as long as we can strive to keep it unless circumstances force our hand otherwise.

what are the new cultural elements that have crept up and what are the cultural elements that should remain/

 

[IPL5]

Instead of occupying Bangladesh, you left your mark by installing puppets which might lead to India absorbing Bangladesh once again in the future.

so what is your point ?

 

[Subramanian]

I can agree with that, but at the end of it all, it's a temporary peace. We request peace to get back on our feet, only so that we can do what?


The Indians wholeheartedly want to absorb the Pakistani state into their country. They are completely taking advantage of the situation of our country at this moment, with proxy wars, international pressure, and an automated propaganda machine.

If the Kashmir issue was resolved, what more would Pakistan want to do with India? Absolutely nothing.

Dude,even if all of you end up absolutely similar to the ones on this side of the border?

How will it make Pak territory absorbed into India?

Spain n Portugal are very similar,dont they exist alag alag?

North & South Korea?

 

[SQ8]

what are the new cultural elements that have crept up and what are the cultural elements that should remain/

those that were common.. those that were based on Hindu-Muslim culture and not pure HInduism should remain.
the current sanskrit-ization and westernisation of India.. is having its impact here via the media.

 

[Subramanian]

Indians are going to ignore our willingness to talk and push us back to militaristic confrontations. It's obvious, and anyone that thinks otherwise is a fool.

Kya Baat karein?

Baat karne ke liye kisiko toh shuruwaad karni chahiye?

Pichle vaari jab baatein hoye tab toh kargil kar diya? aur parliament attack hogya?

Bombay mein bomb blast aur hamla hogya,bechaarein maare gye?

aur ab baat kya karein?

 

[RazPaK]

Dude,even if all of you end up absolutely similar to the ones on this side of the border?

How will it make Pak territory absorbed into India?

Spain n Portugal are very similar,dont they exist alag alag?

North & South Korea?

In my opinion, first there is a cultural invasion. Next is the transformation into a satellite state, then after some time in the future there will be the absorption of the state.

This is the process.

 

[Subramanian]

Well I live in the same dream world that Iqbal and Jinnah did.. perhaps you should try it.
Head butting, hate warmongering does little.
sure there are venomous snakes in India the likes of Subramanian.. and the infamous "Adelphi Papers".
But where there are die hard follows and preachers of that hate.. there are reasons for it as well.
both in India and here.
So there must be a force to oppose it..
Nobody is asking to beg at India's feet.. all that is required is a sincere hand of friendship without a general planning a misadventure in the sleeves.. and let India make the next move.

If the venomous snakes did not exist,toh abhi tak ghazwa e hind ho jaata,aur hum sab aap ke peyr pakadke baite rahein.

Par ab Masla kya hain?

India toh pakistan ke khilaaf kuch ni kar raha ho?

those that were common.. those that were based on Hindu-Muslim culture and not pure HInduism should remain.
the current sanskrit-ization and westernisation of India.. is having its impact here via the media.

The commonness also came because of Muslim rule in Delhi and Punjab.

Then we had english rule and now the youtube rule which has made us do English.

So in the middle of all this,whats wrong in keeping alive Sanskrit?

The sanskritization ll have an impact for sure but just see how much of urdu words a common Indian uses in his Hindi.So this is the reverse process,fact of life.

In my opinion, first there is a cultural invasion. Next is the transformation into a satellite state, then after some time in the future there will be the absorption of the state.

This is the process.

Dude,

All this happens to people with minor misunderstandings.

Not with this kind of hatred and differences.

Pakistan being a satellite of India?

In which world ll that ever happen?

One more thing,

It is already very difficult managing India as a central entity and if you add pak/BL to it,sataynash ho jayga.

 

[Tamizhan]

There will have to be a swallowing of ego's.. and yes India will have to do a bit too much to the chagrin of those filled with venom here. .

As time passes by and the gap between our two nations widens - in economic, military and international influence - the incentive for India to even indulge Pakistan is steadily decreasing. As time goes by Pakistan becomes increasingly insignificant for India. Now Pakistanis may not believe it or not want to believe it, but that is the hard truth.

One example is the progressive hardening of India's stand on Siachen with each passing round of talks.

So in all realistic terms, it is in Pakistan's interest to end this conflict and make peace with India. But then for that, the swallowing of ghairat must be there on the part of Pakistan. Are the Pakistani leadership and more importantly the Pak public up for that challenge ?

And no, as you seem to believe India does not need to do much - just engage Pak in a costly arms race and let the Pakistani mentality of wanting to do equal-equal with India to do the rest.

p.s. Please don't try to be the pacifist/idealist and try paint Indians who are just pragmatist as haters, what your nation has done to us or tried to do, we have all right in the world to hate - even if that is not what we have right now.

 

[SQ8]

I can agree with that, but at the end of it all, it's a temporary peace. We request peace to get back on our feet, only so that we can do what?


The Indians wholeheartedly want to absorb the Pakistani state into their country. They are completely taking advantage of the situation of our country at this moment, with proxy wars, international pressure, and an automated propaganda machine.

If the Kashmir issue was resolved, what more would Pakistan want to do with India? Absolutely nothing.

Do what?
Explore science and technology.. provide better living to our people and those around the world.
Play a proactive role in supporting the interests of our friends in the Muslim and non-Muslims world.
And a lot more..

Im not getting you.. if for eg.. India does not wish to attack Pakistan.. or absorb it..as you say.
There is NOTHING for Pakistan to do? are you implying we exist because of a perceived belligerence in India?
That if India refuses to attack or subvert Pakistan for a while.. we will end???

With the Kashmir issue resolved..
Pakistan could open up its tourism sector to India.. provide it a link for its transit and trade.. the possibilities are endless.
What must be the primary drive right now.. is to not send the message of "We want peace right now so we can make war later"..
But a message that "we want peace right now.. so we can prevent war later.. and provide an even brighter future for our future generations".
Whether India stands by it or not.. is to be part of our planning.. we make build up our forces to prepare for any eventuality.
We must always "work for peace but be prepared for war"... with the emphasis on peace.
Not.. "fake peace.. while we prepare for war".. as was done in Kargil.

 

[harpoon]

I
The Indians wholeheartedly want to absorb the Pakistani state into their country. They are completely taking advantage of the situation of our country at this moment, with proxy wars, international pressure, and an automated propaganda machine.

If GoI has any such desire, I will join the Maoists and fight against GoI.

 

[SQ8]

As time passes by and the gap between our two nations widens - in economic, military and international influence - the incentive for India to even indulge Pakistan is steadily decreasing. As time goes by Pakistan becomes increasingly insignificant for India. Now Pakistanis may not believe it or not want to believe it, but that is the hard truth.

One example is the progressive hardening of India's stand on Siachen with each passing round of talks.

So in all realistic terms, it is in Pakistan's interest to end this conflict and make peace with India. But then for that, the swallowing of ghairat must be there on the part of Pakistan. Are the Pakistani leadership and more importantly the Pak public up for that challenge ?

And no, as you seem to believe India does not need to do much - just engage Pak in a costly arms race and let the Pakistani mentality of wanting to do equal-equal with India to do the rest.

p.s. Please don't try to be the pacifist/idealist and try paint Indians who are just pragmatist as haters, what your nation has done to us or tried to do, we have all right in the world to hate - even if that is not what we have right now.

Planning mass murder.. millions of death via war.. What other definition of hate is there?

 

[Tamizhan]

Planning mass murder.. millions of death via war.. What other definition of hate is there?

As you might be aware India has not provoked any of the three (or four) wars with Pakistan.

If Pakistan stays put within its borders and does not send its uninvited guests to our side, we have no business with Pakistan. We have millions of other concerns/problems in our country that needs to be set right.

Anyway that is the not the point - the status quo of low simmer suits India just fine as much as any peace. But is it the same for Pakistan ? That is the question.

 

[RazPaK]

Do what?
Explore science and technology.. provide better living to our people and those around the world.
Play a proactive role in supporting the interests of our friends in the Muslim and non-Muslims world.
And a lot more..

Im not getting you.. if for eg.. India does not wish to attack Pakistan.. or absorb it..as you say.
There is NOTHING for Pakistan to do? are you implying we exist because of a perceived belligerence in India?
That if India refuses to attack or subvert Pakistan for a while.. we will end???

With the Kashmir issue resolved..
Pakistan could open up its tourism sector to India.. provide it a link for its transit and trade.. the possibilities are endless.
What must be the primary drive right now.. is to not send the message of "We want peace right now so we can make war later"..
But a message that "we want peace right now.. so we can prevent war later.. and provide an even brighter future for our future generations".
Whether India stands by it or not.. is to be part of our planning.. we make build up our forces to prepare for any eventuality.
We must always "work for peace but be prepared for war"... with the emphasis on peace.
Not.. "fake peace.. while we prepare for war".. as was done in Kargil.

We need to work on our economy, I agree, but why do we need to make peace with India for that to happen?

First of all it's not as if as though there is a war raging on right now.

Secondly, why do we need to India to fall back on? Are we not a capable nation? Did our forefathers decide to separate only to fall back on India for assistance?

I've already said to you, that after the Kashmiris gain the right to self-determination, what would anyone want from India?

Oscar I don't know If you feel a certain affinity towards India because your ancestors migrated from there, but most Pakistanis feel affinity towards the Kashmiris. The reason is because they are fellow Muslims that are being murdered and oppressed by the Indians, just like our forefathers were.

You automatically assume that I want war with India, however after Kashmir dispute is settled, I want nothing to do with India. We are a sovereign nation with our own goals.

After Kashmir we go our separate ways, and that's the end of that.

 

[Tamizhan]

^ Kashmir issue is not going to be settled on Pakistan's terms. You can be sure of that. Not now, not in the future.

Either LOC become IB or P0K becomes India's.