Egypt to boost Rafale order by 100 Aircraft as it’s Su-35 failed to withstand Rafale’s SPECTRA electronic attacks

[The Accountant]

J10-C maybe but doubt the JF-17 stands any chance. The jet doesnt even have a proper EW suite. Two different generations.

Not sure why you are being so passive aggressive. I know what the abbreviation stands for but the EW suite has offensive capabilities as well.

Jf17 block 3 has an aesa radar ... How spectra pesa antena going to deceive it ?

Furthermore, who told u jf17 does not have ew suite ? Do u even understand what ew suite is ?

 

[dbc]

True, but overall, I'm not as much knowledge in EW as other members would be.

SPECTRA is a self protection suite, so when SPECTRA detects a lock it generates a return signal with a time delay either amplified or weakened so the hostile receiver receives both the echo (original signal) and the delayed fake signal causing the enemy radar to break lock. SPECTRA operates on techniques like range gate stealing, angle deception or velocity gate stealing to deceive an enemy radar.

It does not noise jam a hostile radar and is incapable of rendering an enemy radar inoperable.
A low power system like SPECTRA is incapable of rendering a more powerful radar like the IBRIS inoperable it is only capable of deception jamming. Plus these techniques don't work on LPI waveforms generated by an AESA radar.

 

[Jungibaaz]

SPECTRA is a self protection suite, so when SPECTRA detects a lock it generates a return signal with a time delay either amplified or weakened so the hostile receiver receives both the echo (original signal) and the delayed fake signal causing the enemy radar to break lock. SPECTRA operates on techniques like range gate stealing, angle deception or velocity gate stealing to deceive an enemy radar.

It does not noise jam a hostile radar and is incapable of rendering an enemy radar inoperable.
A low power system like SPECTRA is incapable of rendering a more powerful radar like the IBRIS inoperable it is only capable of deception jamming. Plus these techniques don't work on LPI waveforms generated by an AESA radar.

Exactly. SPECTRA isn't magic, too much marketing bs surrounding it. It will not work against any capable LPI AESA.

 

[PakFactor]

SPECTRA is a self protection suite, so when SPECTRA detects a lock it generates a return signal with a time delay either amplified or weakened so the hostile receiver receives both the echo (original signal) and the delayed fake signal causing the enemy radar to break lock. SPECTRA operates on techniques like range gate stealing, angle deception or velocity gate stealing to deceive an enemy radar.

It does not noise jam a hostile radar and is incapable of rendering an enemy radar inoperable.
A low power system like SPECTRA is incapable of rendering a more powerful radar like the IBRIS inoperable it is only capable of deception jamming. Plus these techniques don't work on LPI waveforms generated by an AESA radar.

Got it, that makes more sense.
Thanks for the knowledge on this really appreciate it.

 

[HRK]

That’s interest regarding Spectra jamming SUs.

Now this begs the question about the rest of Russian and Chinese Air Fleet.

@Windjammer @Raider 21

How well would JF-17 Suites be able to handle this considering we’re taking off the shelf Chinese equipment.

It will be difficult for any platform which is not integrated with AESA to withstand against EW from AESA based platform therefore it must not be a surprise for us, Rafale performed better against Su-35 in Egypt.

 

[nahtanbob]

That’s interest regarding Spectra jamming SUs.

Now this begs the question about the rest of Russian and Chinese Air Fleet.

@Windjammer @Raider 21

How well would JF-17 Suites be able to handle this considering we’re taking off the shelf Chinese equipment.

China and Russia do not share latest and greatest with their allies

 

[ARCH٤R]

Concerning the Su-35 deal. What I believe went through was Egypt offering an “Economic Zone” to Russia by the Suez Canal worth the deal for Su-35s (possibly also Ka-52s and MiG-29s) because of
1. Allegedly the tightening of the flow of money to Russia by the US (mainly).
2. The fact that Egypt wanted to offer the residents of the Suez Canal cities work opportunities - allowing Egypt to delay building new Infrastructure for these cities.

Now, how was Egypt’s experience with Russia’s new weapons?
The EAF Ka-52s were reported by a sole outlet to have had engine issues - it’s worth highlighting that till this very day the Ka-52s weren’t shown to be involved in any operations in the Sinai or Libya by the MoD, yet I can confirm the Ka-52s have been flexibly operating from bases in Matruh and Cairo/Wudyan. The Ka-52 pilots in the EAF are operating HMDs and are yet to be seen deployed in the Sinai.
It’s worth noting that Egypt’s Apache fleet did not suffer a single loss since 2014 and is surely the first choice for counter-insurgency operations, though.

Egypt’s MiG-29M2 fleet has suffered 1/2 losses up till this day, the M2 represents a midpoint between the MiG-29M and the MiG-35 as it lacks certain avionics destined to be present on the MiG-35 once completely developed. It is said that these losses have been replaced at Russia’s expenses and were blamed on technical failures with the engines, too.

Egypt has constantly expressed flexibility with maintaining its Rafale fleet while the MiG-29 remains relatively under more observation by the manufacturers.
All this being said, it’s is possible that Egypt rejects the Su-35s at such a late stage, to favor more Rafales.

 

[Zarvan]

That’s interest regarding Spectra jamming SUs.

Now this begs the question about the rest of Russian and Chinese Air Fleet.

@Windjammer @Raider 21

How well would JF-17 Suites be able to handle this considering we’re taking off the shelf Chinese equipment.

Egypt sucks at EW warfare. Rafale is one thing. They are several measures which can be used to counter it. So no SU-35 isn't that bad you just need to have proper know how to counter Rafale. Which our pilots thanks to ALLAH has.

 

[Gripen9]

SPECTRA is a self protection suite, so when SPECTRA detects a lock it generates a return signal with a time delay either amplified or weakened so the hostile receiver receives both the echo (original signal) and the delayed fake signal causing the enemy radar to break lock. SPECTRA operates on techniques like range gate stealing, angle deception or velocity gate stealing to deceive an enemy radar.

It does not noise jam a hostile radar and is incapable of rendering an enemy radar inoperable.
A low power system like SPECTRA is incapable of rendering a more powerful radar like the IBRIS inoperable it is only capable of deception jamming. Plus these techniques don't work on LPI waveforms generated by an AESA radar.

Essentially French integrated version of DFRM found on F16blk50/52 onwards?

 

[dbc]

Essentially French integrated version of DFRM found on F16blk50/52 onwards?

yes Spectra is highly integrated to the radar, avionics and counter measures and it is also able to passively geolocate emitters.

 

[airmarshal]

May be you guys should calm down. Its a post shared by an Indian on a Pakistani forum. Do you think its credible?

 

[Sineva]

The article in question is a pretty poor piece of writing to put it mildly.
For a start it references a supposed breaking defense article which quotes unnamed egyptian af sources claiming that the su35s radar "failed repeatedly".Strangely tho,when I looked at the referenced article on the breaking defense website,it mentioned nothing about any failures of the su35 radar at the hands of the rafales spectra system.
Essentially the writer for the globaldefensecorp story had taken most of the original article from the breaking defense site,and had added his own little entirely bogus contribution.
Check it out for yourselves
https://breakingdefense.com/2021/05/egyptian-deal-for-rafale-fighters-boosts-data-sharing/

There are a lot of right wing type sites like this one that masquerade as legitimate military sites,essentially pretending to report on happenings in the word of military developments and procurements,but these reports are often [usually] heavily biased and slanted to produce a certain narrative,indeed one only has to read the blurb in the "what we do" part of the particular site in question to see this.
https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/who-we-are/

Also when I read article titles like this one,its basically at the level of a propaganda bad joke,not to mention a rather obvious give away of its true intent.

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[HammerHead081]

Egypt sucks at EW warfare. Rafale is one thing. They are several measures which can be used to counter it. So no SU-35 isn't that bad you just need to have proper know how to counter Rafale. Which our pilots thanks to ALLAH has.

What evidence you have to suggest that an entire airforce flying much more advanced fighters knows less than our pilots? Are our pilots taking their education from some magical place which apparently Egypt’s fighter pilots dont have access to? Please stop downplaying things and making things out of air to keep yourself deluded.

Jf17 block 3 has an aesa radar ... How spectra pesa antena going to deceive it ?

Furthermore, who told u jf17 does not have ew suite ? Do u even understand what ew suite is ?

I dont claim to be an expert but if you ask me Jeff having an AESA radar is not an end all solution to any EW attack.

 

[Mav3rick]

I read people comparing Thunders with Rafale but ignoring the fact that Thunders too will have AWACS supporting them.

 

[Zarvan]

What evidence you have to suggest that an entire airforce flying much more advanced fighters knows less than our pilots? Are our pilots taking their education from some magical place which apparently Egypt’s fighter pilots dont have access to? Please stop downplaying things and making things out of air to keep yourself deluded.

I dont claim to be an expert but if you ask me Jeff having an AESA radar is not an end all solution to any EW attack.

Being able to buy new expensive toys doesn't mean you can use them better. Yes we have history to proof. We have beaten better quality planes with lower quality planes over and over again. We have great history where we have pilots like MM Alam and several others. So please if you don't know things then better go and learn.