Does Turkey Benefit From Cold War With Israel?

[Targon]

They didn't at all, he probably thinks Khazars are destroyed because ruling class was Jewish.

 

[atatwolf]

They didn't at all, he probably thinks Khazars are destroyed because ruling class was Jewish.

I thought Khazar were Turks with Judaism as their religion.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

I don't think all Jews are like the ones here. There is distinction between Jews and Israeli.

but tell me How did they destroy Khazar Khaganate?

There are books, some of them Turkish translated. Artamonov, Dunlop, Gumilev etc.

Jews took over the government, the elites converted into Jewry. This difference between higher class (ak hazar) and shamanist/tengriist lower class (kara hazar) created antagonism. Later Turkic tribes like Pechenegs and Guzzs abandoned Khazar elites in their fight against Arabs and Rus'. Syatoslav of Varegs entered Khazar capital and burnt down in 10th century.

 

[Targon]

Pechenegs and Ghuzz were vassals of Khazars, not subjects, they were never royal to them, and oftenly fought againts them its have nothing with their religion, same for their own subjects, I never heard of anything about religion causes antogonism among them, pagans didn't really cared in the beginnning, pagans, muslims, jews were living together in the Khazar capital and each had autonomy in their own.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

Pechenegs and Ghuzz were vassals of Khazars, not subjects, they were never royal to them, and oftenly fought againts them its have nothing with their religion, same for their own subjects, I never heard of anything about religion causes antogonism among them, pagans didn't really cared in the beginnning, pagans, muslims, jews were living together in the Khazar capital and each had autonomy in their own.

Book name, page number?

 

[Targon]

You can start with checking Ibn Fadlan.

 

[atatwolf]

I heard on Tarihin Arka odasi that the jews in Europe were descendants of Khazar.

Khazar means Gezer which means somebody who dwells around.

For the people who are interested:
http://www.solargeneral.com/library/thirteenth-tribe-arthur-koestler.pdf

 

[Alienoz_TR]

You can start with checking Ibn Fadlan.

Let me Tell you what Ibn Fadlan explains. Bulgar Ilteber (King) was a vassal of Khazar. He sought Arab Caliph's help to resist Khazars. Bulgars became Muslims and requested money from Caliph to fight against Khazars and build fortress.

Ibn Fadlan visited Bulgaria in 922. As we see in Rihle of Ibn Fadlan, Turkic tribes started to abandon Khazaria in Early 10th century. Then in 960's Rus Varegs destroyed it completely.

 

[Targon]

How is it related to antogonism caused by their religion ? Bulgars simply used Muslims to get financial help againts stronger Khazars, Ibn Fadlan also clearly explains why Bulgars and Khazars got hostile if you read it.

Turkic tribes are not started to abandon Khazars because of religion, if you say so you have to prove it, those vassal tribes were made vassals because of power of Khazars, with Rus getting aggressive againts Khazars and Khazars gets weakened they normally abandoned them.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

How is it related to antogonism caused by their religion ? Bulgars simply used Muslims to get financial help againts stronger Khazars, Ibn Fadlan also clearly explains why Bulgars and Khazars got hostile if you read it.

Turkic tribes are not started to abandon Khazars because of religion, if you say so you have to prove it, those vassal tribes were made vassals because of power of Khazars, with Rus getting aggressive againts Khazars and Khazars gets weakened they normally abandoned them.

Artamonov, hazar Tarihi, page number 367: power struggle between Jewish elite and non-Jewish local beys.
Artamonov, a.g.e., p.n. 417-430: 9th century Khazar civil war, main cause is transformation of state, and the complaints of local beys.

 

[Targon]

Thats not a proof unfortunately, thats a guess, a proof is a historical source from the period.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

Thats not a proof unfortunately, thats a guess, a proof is a historical source from the period.

Allright, Professor. you could have challenged Artamonov if he were alive. We have No.1 khazarologist here. Artamonov is 2nd.

 

[Targon]

Doesn't changes the fact its not a proof but a guess, any objection to that ? Also a quick check showed me that Artamonov himself not brings its as a fact but a speculation, how can he can bring it as a proof anyway while it has no historical basis.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

Doesn't changes the fact its not a proof but a guess, any objection to that ? Also a quick check showed me that Artamonov himself not brings its as a fact but a speculation, how can he can bring it as a proof anyway while it has no historical basis.

Are you denying Khazar civil war which is a war between Jewish aristocracy and non-Jewish Turks? Be clear.

 

[Targon]

No, I'm denying that it was a civil war between jews and non-jews because there is simply no proof for it get it proffessor ?