Does the PN need an aircraft carrier?

[Chogy]

There would be nothing stopping Pakistan from operating a mini-carrier using AV-8B (or similar) Harrier jets. You'd not have a Naval air arm to compete with a massive nuclear carrier with F/A-18, but the size of the projected mission does not require the latter.

But a dozen AV-8B's on a smaller ship, with supporting vessels, would be a potent force.

Like this: The USS Nassau...

 

[Penguin]

There would be nothing stopping Pakistan from operating a mini-carrier using AV-8B (or similar) Harrier jets. You'd not have a Naval air arm to compete with a massive nuclear carrier with F/A-18, but the size of the projected mission does not require the latter.

But a dozen AV-8B's on a smaller ship, with supporting vessels, would be a potent force.

Like this: The USS Nassau...

The AV-8B is scheduled to remain in service until the introduction of replacement aircraft in 2015
AV-8 Harrier

ReplacementAs of late 2010[update], the F-35B STOVL variant of the F-35 Lightning II (formerly the Joint Strike Fighter) is intended to replace the AV-8B Harrier II in service with the US Marine Corps[4] and the Italian Navy[5] from 2014 onwards. The RAF and Royal Navy are scheduled to introduce the CATOBAR F-35C variant around 2020, after retiring their Harriers in 2011.[6] In December 2010 the RAF's Harrier IIs made their last operational flights.[7
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrier_Jump_Jet#Replacement

 

[MastanKhan]

Pakistan need carrier. all the modern forces including china going to have carriers. pakistan cannot lag behind. we have powerful navy we need more submarines and one carrier.

pakistan can spend $2 billions on a carrier. we have such power. we can buy a carrier from china or make one in karachi shipyard.

Hi,

It is very easy---anyone---anybody can stand up and say---we need this this and this---to defend this this and that. You have standard items---and you can lay your cliams on that.

But to come up with the real stuff---what is really neccessary and what is the most capable equipment to do the best job possible with the least amount of expense / money spent---that is when it takes some serious research and thinking and brain storming.

Sir, I would reccommend the last part---.

 

[ANG]

Dear All, is there really a need to debate this point? Pakistan buy an aircraft carrier? Seriously? To have an aircraft carrier, you need fleet air defense ships like destroyers or heavy frigates, submarines and ASW planes. Pakistan can barely cough up enough money to buy 4 F-22P frigates, cannot even buy 3+ submarines, and is hoping to get Type 054A frigates via soft loans from China.

Pakistan simply does not have the financial resources for such an endeavor. Kindly please read some of the business sections of some Pakistani news papers like dawn of tribune.com.pk. You will see Pakistan is at the mercy of the IMF and is at high risk of defaulting. They can barely pay their debt servicing costs without external funding help.

The sad part is Pakistan has the resources on its own, but it is all squandered in corruption. Take care.

Interactive: U.S. slips to historic low in global corruption index | Reuters

 

[MastanKhan]

There would be nothing stopping Pakistan from operating a mini-carrier using AV-8B (or similar) Harrier jets. You'd not have a Naval air arm to compete with a massive nuclear carrier with F/A-18, but the size of the projected mission does not require the latter.

But a dozen AV-8B's on a smaller ship, with supporting vessels, would be a potent force.

Like this: The USS Nassau...

Hi,

The AV 8B's are no match for the F 18's---it will be like shooting ducks in the gallery---similiarly---the small carrier would also be vulnerable to a superior enemy---. Without cover of air superiority fighter interceptors and carrier battle group---this small carrier is doomed by superior indian forces---if this carrier strays too far from the base---it is history---.

Pak having bases closer and inland to the arabian sea plus air refuelers---would be better off getting half a sqdrn of some upgraded H 6 chinese bombers with anti ship missiles---.

The task would be to locate the indian carrier battle group---to take it on---pak would have to involve and sacrifice some valuable air assets in a reasonable numbers---.

But we also need to understand the indian habbit of protecting its naval assets---even though the carrier presents a major source of power---its loss would also be a back breaker to the psyche of the nation and its armed forces---.

If argentina had sunk that british ship---what was that---an aircraft carrier---the battle would have seen a different result.

The resilience and capabilities of pak air force would determine how the indian navy utilizes is fleet---when and if the indians get the FA 18's---what would paf have to show at that time would make the difference.

As far as naval ships are concerned---pak navy can't come close to the numbers that the indians have---they will be dependant on a compliment of air to ship ship to ship missiles and air support all the way---how much support they will get from the pak subs---I can't say---but currently---not much---the subs will bve somewhere else waiting for their querry---.

 

[Archie]

Like somebody said ,Pakistan Doesnot have a large enough coastline , nor does it have any far off Island Territory which requires Aircraft Carrier for its defence
Let me give some figures to explain it more appropriately
India has a coastline of 7000 km , china has a coastline of 13000 km while USA has a coastline of 24000km ,
Apart from that India also has more than 1000 small Islands , some of them 2000 Km away from Indian Mainland
China too has valuable Island Territory Like Hong Kong , Macau , Taiwan which require defence

Compared to that Pakistan has a 1000 Km coastline and no Island territory
So i dont think that they require AC for its protection , coz some coastal airbases can do the job

 

[ANG]

Hi, I think it is simpler than that. It does not have the money... Take care.

 

[Archie]

Pakistan should step on the ladder slowly
Since pakistn has been operating frigates for some time , then it should first move to 5000 ton Destroyers then to 8000ton Cruisers or amphibuis assault ships , there after when it has sufficient experience in operating these ships then it should move to carriers
After it accomplishes all this then Pakistan could buy a second hand carrier weighing 20000-25000ton
Or if it wants a new ship but pay less money then it can ask Italy or spain for a building a newship of the size of 17000 Ton Italian Garibaldi class , or something even smaller liKe the 11000 TON Chakri Narobet built for Royal Thai Navy by a Spanish shipyard
These 2 classes of ships would be cheap and be capable of operating 15 aircrafts comprising a combination of Harrier/F35B and anti sub helicopters
These ships will also not cost more than Between 600 Million USD TO 1 Billion USD
Otherwise in future pakistan can also look at South Korean DOkdo class LHD weighing 18000 ton full load ,and capable of operating F35B ,south Korean navy plans to buy 22 F35B to operate from 2 of these ships
Even Turkey is buying this ship which will not cost more than 750 Million USD

 

[truthseeker2010]

its not about coastline, its about resources if you have enough budget you can operate one. Unfortunately this is not the case with Pakistan.
Plus you don't need a carrier to counter another carrier.

 

[ANG]

Hi, Pakistan struggled to find $750M for the 4 F-22P frigrates. Also, from what I have read, China gave the PN a soft loan for that purpose. I highly doubt or think it is justifiable to buy a single $750M ship for the PN. My personal opinion is that it would be more worthwhile to buy Type 054A frigates, or subs, or JF-17/J01B for maritime strike roles.

In order to have any type of aircraft carrier, you would need the above assets for a supporting role. You are right though, the PN can build up slowly over time for such a role/task. Take care.

 

[Archie]

like i said PN should first convince china to Provide some second hand 5000 ton destroyers
Instead of buying 30-33 yr old OHP from USA costing 78 Mil USD each
1-2 such destroyers would not only be better than 3-4 OHP but would give valuable experience in operating heavy ships , Provided they are less than 30yrs old , and PLAN operates 8 such destroyers which are between 25-30 yr old
Pakistan should also look at buying a second hand LPD from US , something like the 35 Yr old USS Trenton which India bought from US for only 52 Million USD including repairs and upgrade

 

[ANG]

Hi Mr. Archie, I completely agree with your above post. The PN should get its hands on some Type 054A heavy frigates or if possible Type 052C destroyers, basically anything with long range fleet air defense. The OHP are old, and even though they will be upgraded, their achilles heel is they are sanction prone. Take care.

 

[maverick1977]

an indian forumer saying pakistan does not have any island is wrong. pakistan has roughly 8 islands in its territory but not far away from the coast.

here is info on pakistani biggest island.

Astola - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, carrier group will be good to have to protect your interests overseas...like helping your allies against any country as part of multiple task force.

I am sure china will want to have strong allies the way US has and in time they will like US will make their allies stronger economically to project their power. I wont be surprise if china will help pakistan immensley over time and pakistan having its own carrier group.

 

[Archie]

an indian forumer saying pakistan does not have any island is wrong. pakistan has roughly 8 islands in its territory but not far away from the coast.
here is info on pakistani biggest island.

Astola - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, carrier group will be good to have to protect your interests overseas...like helping your allies against any country as part of multiple task force.

I am sure china will want to have strong allies the way US has and in time they will like US will make their allies stronger economically to project their power. I wont be surprise if china will help pakistan immensley over time and pakistan having its own carrier group.

Hey Maverick , were u talking about me
Though u are right that pakistan has 8 Islands , but most of them are just un inhabited Sand bars not more than 4 Sq km in area and some are just coral rocks 2-3 Km off the coast of Karachi

It is True that Astola Island is 40 Km away from Baluchistan shoreline but thats peanuts compared to Andaman and Nicobar Islands which are 2000 Km away from Indian Mainland
Also the fact is that Astola has an area of 4 sq km and only turtles live there , compared to Andaman and Nicobar Islands which have a combined area of 3400 Sq Km and a population in excess of 500000 People

The only decent Island in Pakistan is Buddo or Bundal Island of the coast of karachi Defence Housing Society which is around 49 Sq km and 3 km away from coastline and where the company in which i work ie EMAAR is developing a Residential property with some 15000 houses at the cost of 40 Billion USD
I have been on this Island as an Architectural consultant for EMAAR

List of islands of Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Archie]

I am sure china will want to have strong allies the way US has and in time they will like US will make their allies stronger economically to project their power. I wont be surprise if china will help pakistan immensley over time and pakistan having its own carrier group.

Dude , China is not US
Uncle Sam has only provided Weapons to its allies ie nato in the same way it has provided weapons to India ie for money
US has not subsidised weapons to its allies but only provided access to high end tech ,while keeping the most advanced tech for itself .
Only country which has recieved Subsidised weapons form US is Israel
China cannot make Pakistani Economy Stronger , it can only help pakistan by providing cheap loan and Investing money in Pakistan , China has not yet bought Pakistani debt , while it is interested in Buying Greek and Spanish Debts
In the end it is upto the Govt of Pakistan and The people of pakistan to make themself economically strong