Documentary about India by NHK, I recommend them to Chinese members

[Developereo]

Actually there are institutions in India that have education system on par with IITs. The factor is the students studying there. Only the best of the best get in. So the output of the school is good. Not because they have some special curriculum. IIT is prestigious because of its exclusivity, which will be lost if government opens more of them.
Most of these guys go to US and work in the biggest firms and earn big bucks. India seldom benefits from them. Most of the scientists and engineers in India are from the more humble institutions. India will benefit from IIT engineers when Indian companies and government can afford to pay them.

That's terrible. So the best of the best get a subsidized education and then take off!
There is apparently a section in the documentary about reversing the brain drain, so maybe things are improving.

"Jewish media" part is justified because you're a 9/11 conspiracy theorist

Oh, dear, the desperation floodgates are really opening now...

Btw, the "jewish media" nonsense was directed at another poster.

 

[indushek]

@Bigtree.cn first i would like to thank you for bringing us these excellent documentaries. If there was some english translation it would be good.

To guys fighting over the other side of India , yes we have a very bad side too. Nobody is trying to hide it.

However that is not what is being discussed here. So please do not further derail this thread.

 

[gubbi]

I will accept the first, maybe the second, but not the last two points.

Why?

The issue is not attempting exams, but getting affordable education to match your potential.

The point was that the original statistic "5000 seats for 300,000 applicants" can be interpreted both ways.

This is not a statistic per se. Its cold hard numbers. You want to put a statistical spin to it, be my guest. But there are no two ways to interpreting those numbers.

People with potential make it into the list - you will be surprised to learn about the places these students come from! Those without, get left out. Plain and simple.

 

[StingRoy]

IIT is prestigious because of its exclusivity, which will be lost if government opens more of them.
Most of these guys go to US and work in the biggest firms and earn big bucks. India seldom benefits from them. Most of the scientists and engineers in India are from the more humble institutions. India will benefit from IIT engineers when Indian companies and government can afford to pay them.

Jayron, I would like to deviate slightly from your views about the India's benefits from these IIT grads. I would have agreed to that argument a decade ago, but things have changed vastly since then.

These days I work with an organization called TiE (many would have heard about them), many of whom are from IITs and had come to the US 20-30 years back, every single one of them is trying to or has already had an RnD center of their respective companies setup up in India. Although they themselves came to the US in search of personal growth and a penchant for working at the forefronts of technology, they are more than willing to give their share back to India especially when there are a lot of opportunities and local talent pool in the country these days.

India is definitely benefiting from the IIT concept and brand and has helped tremendously in developing an ecosystem which will ultimately benefit India in its long term growth. I am seeing it happening on a daily basis.

 

[Roybot]

Let me point out first of all that I have never mentioned "propaganda" or "the Jewish media".

Sorry my bad, shouldn't have quoted you for that, was referring to someone else.

I share Developereo's view because, I think, both of us are trying to point out the fact that any piece of literature is written from a certain perspective, with both a text and subtext. I am aware of Western documentaries about China's rapid economic development. That is the text. What about the subtext? After seeing those documentaries, do you walk away convinced that China will be able to sustain such growth in the future? I presume not.
On a side note, propaganda is not about all lies. That would be self-defeating. Propaganda is all about careful screening of information that would let people come to their "own" conclusion. Over the course of several hundred years the Western media has managed to elevate it into something of an art form.

I personally find some of the western media outlets quite balanced and unbiased. And once again imo, any piece of literature is not made with any hidden agendas. Its upto to the audience to decide what they want to absorb. I mean these documentaries aren't being force fed to anyone is it? If people don't want to watch something they don't have to.

By bringing in "jewish media" you were laying the groundwork for the usual anti-semitism canard, in case you couldn't sustain your argument. No use dancing around it now.

So now you think on my behalf?

 

[Developereo]

Why?

Adding more IITs will dilute the exclusivity and add more people to the creme de la creme. Agree.

I don't agree that it will lower standards because I think more than 5000 people are qualified to attend IIT. The additional people who will get into IIT will not do so because the standards were lowered, but because there are more seats for qualified people.

It will not dilute resources because I think India has enough top-notch teachers who can be employed in the new IITs.

 

[jayron]

Jayron, I would like to deviate slightly from your views about the India's benefits from these IIT grads. I would have agreed to that argument a decade ago, but things have changed vastly since then.

These days I work with an organization called TiE (many would have heard about them), many of whom are from IITs and had come to the US 20-30 years back, every single one of them is trying to or has already had an RnD center of their respective companies setup up in India. Although they themselves came to the US in search of personal growth and a penchant for working at the forefronts of technology, they are more than willing to give their share back to India especially when there are a lot of opportunities and local talent pool in the country these days.

India is definitely benefiting from the IIT concept and brand and has helped tremendously in developing an ecosystem which will ultimately benefit India in its long term growth. I am seeing it happening on a daily basis.

Thats for that info.. Just this morning I watched that documentary about Kanwal Rekhi . It was very inspirational. Happy to know that Indians are willing to give back to our society.

 

[below_freezing]

Actually there are institutions in India that have education system on par with IITs. The factor is the students studying there. Only the best of the best get in. So the output of the school is good. Not because they have some special curriculum. IIT is prestigious because of its exclusivity, which will be lost if government opens more of them.
Most of these guys go to US and work in the biggest firms and earn big bucks. India seldom benefits from them. Most of the scientists and engineers in India are from the more humble institutions. India will benefit from IIT engineers when Indian companies and government can afford to pay them.

A common problem of top tier schools in developing countries. Quite sad that our countries are pouring BILLIONS into their subsidized education and it turns out most of them will work for the white man.

The biggest sources for US grad students? Qinghua, followed by Beijing U. Even beat UC Berkley.

The next generation of Chinese and Indian scientists and engineers will come from 2nd rate "top" schools like Nanjing, Wuhan, HUST, Sichuan Institute of Electronics, etc. I don't know what's the equivalent in India. What's the 2nd tier of top schools?

 

[StingRoy]

People with potential make it into the list - you will be surprised to learn about the places these students come from! Those without, get left out. Plain and simple.

I wouldn't totally agree to that gubbi. Firstly because there aren't enough seats at the IITs to accommodate all and secondly there are a number of them who make it into the IIT list, but get a better choice of field in engineering at other premier institutions. So although most of the brilliant manage to get their field of choice, a lot are left behind to join other educational institutions. I personally know a few of my friends who took such career choices.

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

@below_freezing: Probably the NITs, Delhi College of Engineering etc.

The problem is an equivament number of students from these colleges are also looking to migrate to the US. There is perhaps no difference in the percentage of students from IITs going abroad as compared to the NITs. It's just that maybe the quality of university in the US might differ, or the cost factor might increase a bit...

 

[Bang Galore]

Adding more IITs will dilute the exclusivity and add more people to the creme de la creme. Agree.

I don't agree that it will lower standards because I think more than 5000 people are qualified to attend IIT. The additional people who will get into IIT will not do so because the standards were lowered, but because there are more seats for qualified people.

It will not dilute resources because I think India has enough top-notch teachers who can be employed in the new IITs.

Why are you hung up on the IIT's? Why should it bother you that REC's are not called IIT? They still offer high quality education on subsidised fees. The IIT's are a brand, just like MIT & Harvard. You can't have too many of them without diluting their exclusivity as you pointed out. There are still a lot of good colleges out there.

Some interesting reading:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/member...k-bihars-super-30-all-students-make-iits.html

 

[below_freezing]

I wouldn't totally agree to that gubbi. Firstly because there aren't enough seats at the IITs to accommodate all and secondly there are a number of them who make it into the IIT list, but get a better choice of field in engineering at other premier institutions. So although most of the brilliant manage to get their field of choice, a lot are left behind to join other educational institutions. I personally know a few of my friends who took such career choices.

Also, I notice that Indian universities seem to only have Engineering and Management? Chinese universities have a wide variety of subjects ranging from sociology to physics. Why do Indian universities not have basic science majors like Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Materials Science, Microelectronics, etc?

 

[StingRoy]

Thats for that info.. Just this morning I watched that documentary about Kanwal Rekhi . It was very inspirational. Happy to know that Indians are willing to give back to our society.

Yes he is an inspirational man. I have met with him personally at a few occasions and believe me there are a number of people like him working to bring in the benefits back to India. A lot of these things go unnoticed by most people in India and the media, but trust me a lot more companies and investors are willing to put their money in the India story.

 

[justanobserver]

Also, I notice that Indian universities seem to only have Engineering and Management? Chinese universities have a wide variety of subjects ranging from sociology to physics. Why do Indian universities not have basic science majors like Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Materials Science, Microelectronics, etc?

That's probably a misconception, Management degrees from the Indian Institutes of Mangement (IIMs) are sought after. Technical Institutes (with a few exceptions) don't offer management degrees.

 

[jayron]

A common problem of top tier schools in developing countries. Quite sad that our countries are pouring BILLIONS into their subsidized education and it turns out most of them will work for the white man.

The biggest sources for US grad students? Qinghua, followed by Beijing U. Even beat UC Berkley.

The next generation of Chinese and Indian scientists and engineers will come from 2nd rate "top" schools like Nanjing, Wuhan, HUST, Sichuan Institute of Electronics, etc. I don't know what's the equivalent in India. What's the 2nd tier of top schools?

National institue of technology (formerly REC) and government engineering colleges in every state. There are some very good private universities too.