Documentary about India by NHK, I recommend them to Chinese members

[StingRoy]

Also, I notice that Indian universities seem to only have Engineering and Management? Chinese universities have a wide variety of subjects ranging from sociology to physics. Why do Indian universities not have basic science majors like Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Materials Science, Microelectronics, etc?

IITs are centers for Science and Technology only (Indian Institute of Tech) and only lately they have included management as well. Most IITs teach pure sciences as well along with different fields of engineering and trust me, they are equally good in those fields. For more specialized science studies we have IISc (Indian Institute of Sciences), IoP (Institute of Physics), IoMA (Institute of Mathematics and Applications), ISI (Indian Statistical Institute) and so on. There are very specialized in their courses of study and hence excel in their own fields.

On the other hand there are several universities who focus on broader aspect of education inclusive of social studies, basic science, botany and other courses.

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

Also, I notice that Indian universities seem to only have Engineering and Management? Chinese universities have a wide variety of subjects ranging from sociology to physics. Why do Indian universities not have basic science majors like Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Materials Science, Microelectronics, etc?

The institutes we are talking about are a bit different from your typical universities. IITs, IIMs, RECs etc are actually not universities but 'schools' specializing in imparting education in a particular field. IITs and IIMs are not allowed to give out 'Degrees' since they are not recognised as universities, so they give out 'Diplomas'.

These 'schools' are extremely popular as the creme de la creme of the students tend to pursue them. However, other science majors like Biology, Chem, Nuclear Physics, Electronics etc. are also popular in universities. It's just that these people don't get the media attention.

 

[Veritas]

Hey awesome University of Hongkong is the best in Asia beating out the Tokyo U.

I can’t believe U.S. News continues to publish the old, flawed QS rankings, which Times Higher Education abandoned after intense criticism. For a better, more credible ranking, see the Times Higher Education World University Rankings.

The Times Higher Education World University Rankings 2010-2011

 

[tanlixiang28776]

I can’t believe U.S. News continues to publish the old, flawed QS rankings, which Times Higher Education abandoned after intense criticism. For a better, more credible ranking, see the Times Higher Education World University Rankings.

The Times Higher Education World University Rankings 2010-2011

Well that list only places Chinese universities higher.

Was that the opposite effect you were looking for?

 

[justanobserver]

The institutes we are talking about are a bit different from your typical universities. IITs, IIMs, RECs etc are actually not universities but 'schools' specializing in imparting education in a particular field. IITs and IIMs are not allowed to give out 'Degrees' since they are not recognised as universities, so they give out 'Diplomas'.

Correction

IITs are universities and they do give out degrees (not diplomas). But they are not "Universites" in the true sense of the word, because they mainly cater to engineering and pure scienes (leaving out social studies etc)

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

Correction

IITs are universities and they do give out degrees (not diplomas). But they are not "Universites" in the true sense of the word, because they mainly cater to engineering and pure scienes (leaving out social studies etc)

Really? I know it for a fact that IIMs give out diplomas. Not sure about IITs.

 

[justanobserver]

Really? I know it for a fact that IIMs give out diplomas. Not sure about IITs.

IITs give degrees, plus each IIT is a university itself

 

[Vinod2070]

You have to understand one thing -----(Some personal opinion)---

The 'documentary' in question is clearly a one-sided propaganda piece. It is always interesting to watch propaganda, but it is also good to remind people of the perspective, as you did.

What would be that perspective? Every time there is some discussion on India, you need to bring in stuff about poverty and toilets?

Is that what your perspective consists of?

Propaganda consists of lying or exaggerating something. What is it in this documentary that will fall in that category?

Or just the fact that it did not cater to your "perspective"?

 

[Nomenclature]

A common problem of top tier schools in developing countries. Quite sad that our countries are pouring BILLIONS into their subsidized education and it turns out most of them will work for the white man.

The biggest sources for US grad students? Qinghua, followed by Beijing U. Even beat UC Berkley.

The next generation of Chinese and Indian scientists and engineers will come from 2nd rate "top" schools like Nanjing, Wuhan, HUST, Sichuan Institute of Electronics, etc. I don't know what's the equivalent in India. What's the 2nd tier of top schools?

I think things are changing. Science and engineering graduates from Tsinghua and PKU can easily get a generously paid job in Beijing's numerous investment banks or hedge funds. Increasingly they're not giving up China for America, they're giving up science for a quick buck.

 

[Vinod2070]

That is true to some extent. Many, if not most, documentaries have a specific message they want to convey. Propaganda does not always mean telling lies; it could involve selective reporting or favoring a particular interpretation of facts.

For example, the fact that 5000 applicants get into IIT out of 300,000 can be portrayed in two ways:
- IIT are extremely selective and only the cream of the crop get in.
- India is spending billions on weapons while the vast majority of its people are denied quality education.
Both conclusions are valid based on the data, but a documentary may mention only one of them to suit its agenda.



Exactly! You confirmed both my points.

There is also the third way (and the right way).

IITs have a limited number of seats and there are far too many students going after those seats.

They won't like to be so selective but they can't stop those students from trying.

Scaling these institutes is being tried to some extent, not only in India but also in some friendly countries.

I don't think they have been very successful in sclaing fast enough or that has even been a big intent.

But it has nothing to do with our defense (however much you may be obsessed with it).

India spends more on education than on defense. Unlike some other countries in our neighborhood (where I read education spend in 1/7 of the declared defense budget).

 

[Developereo]

What would be that perspective?

You missed the party. Better luck next time.

 

[Vinod2070]

So you're saying that everyone in India gets the level of education to match their potential?

So, out of a population of 1.1 billion people, only 5000 have the brains to absorb a top-notch technical education?

PS. And that is assuming that all the IITs are good. My IIT-grad friends tell me that is not the case; some are better than others.

India has several other good institutes. IITs just happen to have the biggest brand name.

Why would you assume otherwise? Is it sheer ignorance of basic facts?

 

[Vinod2070]

You missed the party. Better luck next time.

I will still let you give it a try.

 

[below_freezing]

I think things are changing. Science and engineering graduates from Tsinghua and PKU can easily get a generously paid job in Beijing's numerous investment banks or hedge funds. Increasingly they're not giving up China for America, they're giving up science for a quick buck.

Dreams are beautiful but reality is harsh.

????_??

60% of science graduates leave the country.
15% of engineering graduates leave the country.

Qinghua, Beijing U: taxpayer money and time flowing straight to the US of A.

 

[Vinod2070]

For those who think about India scaling it's technical education, it has already been massively scaled.

How else could we supply the two million odd people just in the IT industry, leave alone all the others in the other industries.

The quality is not uniformly good for obvious reasons and many of the people joining the work force need training on the job, especially in the IT industry.

The industry has responded by creating the most scalable system for training large number of people anywhere in the world. In fact that has become the unique strength of the Indian IT industry, taking in a very large number of people with no IT experience and get them productive in a few months.

People have already pointed out that one institute can't train everyone whoi is interested in that brand name. It can still set the standards that the other institutes can follow. It has done that part well. It doesn't have to train all the 100,000s of people who become Engineers in India every year. Nor can it do that, even if it wanted to.

I think Indian technical education has a lot of catching up to do with the best out there. China is far ahead of us in training its Engineers better.