Diriliş Ertuğrul: Turkish views needed

[Trango Towers]

Personally; this series's production value is nice, but it is annoying how it is being propagated in Pakistan. I don't like it for several reasons.

1. It is, and will, ignite a pan Islamist, expansionist concept in many people; and I have seen this, people in the comments section going about how borders should be erased, and the caliphate should be brought back. This is contrary to the idea of a country, how can Pakistan exist if you support a single government setup for all Muslims.
2. It will implant wrong ideas and expectations in minds of people about Turkey, its culture and people. People will have this flawed view about their history, and their current being. In example, an average Pakistani doesn't know anything about the founder of the Turkish Republic that is Kemal Atatürk or its culture such as alcohol being a part of its cuisine, if you were to introduce these to them, they would probably go into a state of shock or wouldn't be able to believe. They wouldn't even know that the Hijab wasn't completely unbanned in Turkey until the 2014! Heck, those who know of the founder, they consider him to be a British spy, and consider Erdoğan as a savior. This lack of connection to the actual Turkish Republic and feelings is very, very sad and bad.
   
3. Expanding on the previous idea... people will feel that they're connected to Turkey by religious bounds rather than by historical bounds, when it is the latter which has a greater play in our reality.

These are my issues with this series and how it's being peddled up in the sky in Pakistan, I think it's doing more than just teach Islamic ethics, it is subtly, unintentionally reinforcing other ideas at the back of peoples' minds which I mentioned above.

But, it is good religious propaganda nonetheless and it will definitely replace the religious perspectives in Pakistan which are influenced by Saudi version, just with a Turkish version. But it will remain and outsider perspective, and I don't personally like that... why can't we develop ourselves when we had so many great Islamic philosophers like Iqbal.

Other things I find bad about this, just generally.

• It's not historically accurate I guess, people will take this as true value, and I think that's sad.
• It's seriously wrong. Hundreds of episodes. People are asking PTV to upload 3 episodes a day where each episode is at least 1 hour 20 minutes long... that's no less than 4 hours to 6 hours a day... for hundreds of episodes. It's such a time waste.

I don't understand why Government couldn't bring in foreign producers, directors and editors if need be, but invest in a domestic production which covers our Islamic history and our heroes. And if Government is really so worried about Islamic ethics, it can start from the mosques where nothing but irrelevant stuff is fed nowadays. Everyone goes to mosque, how big of a difference would it make if the Imam made one of his Friday sermons on social morality and conduct, or on keeping the public places clean, or such stuff.

My opinion.



Patriotic for who exactly? I know it is a television series and is not a documentary, but our people are taking it at face value... and it's subtly, unintentionally reinforcing ideas of a Caliphate, it's killing the patriotism, not giving it energy. That's my concern. You know how Pakistani people are.

I think we are connected religiously with Turkey too. Its was due to religion that muslims in the indian army refused the British order to fire on their Turkish brothers and to this day the Turks remember the sacrifice.
Trust me islam and its teaching are the way way forward and we have to grab islam back from the jahil molvis. If this program is laying the foundation for the awakening then I would rather this than molvi kavi, molvi diesel or that foul mouthed ugly cripple who's name eludes me. Got it khaddam razvi. May Allah guide us

 

[newb3e]

its just a tv show!

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

So, lately this series called Diriliş Ertuğrul has taken off really fast in Pakistan, and I mean really fast, thanks to the Government and what I would assert as pan expansionist ideals of people.

It has quickly crossed 15 million views on a single video, which is a lot; and so naturally a lot threads have been up about it... however, our Turkish members here have chosen not to comment on, or share their opinion, barely if so.

So, I talked with some Turkish people, and got to know their opinion. Here's what I got to know.

1. That the series is not at all historically accurate, and that is because there are very, very little to non existent sources on Ertuğrul, so most of the stuff is just made up, we don't know his religious views, or philosophy.
   
2. The series is being used as a political tool by the 'ruling party' and for conservatives. They said that whenever there is a certain political atmosphere, the next episode will subtly address it here and there in their favor.
3. It's not Turkish history, rather religious propaganda. If you want to feed false history as long as it's Islamic propaganda, then this is good for it.

Are these things true? What's your take on the series, I think it's good if you guys share your view because that's sort of an insider view which is more eye opening.

Ofcourse, other views are welcome.

@MMM-E @dBSPL @CAN_TR
Pretty irrelevant topic for Turks right now but a comment would be nice.

As you are, so will you be ruled - Hadis-i Sherif

In essence, the views are correct...

A non-Muslim is like milk, when it gets foul it is still useful as cream, yogurt etc...

A Muslim is like oil, when it gets adulterated it turns into poison...

If a Muslim leaves the teachings and practices of Islam no Khair can ever be from him, rather all the Lan'et of the world befalls on him...

They must have very strong Iman and Ihlas; otherwise, the outcome would have been like the 99% of the current leadership in the Muslim world for the majority of the populace are in extreme Jehalet....

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

its just a tv show!

Try to say the same thing for Netflix productions...

 

[Trango Towers]

its just a tv show!

Agreed but TV shows change peoples perception. This is why parents control what their children watch.
If you were watching indian movies what will you learn. Dress half naked, drink booze, kidnap and rape, badmashi and earn through elicit mean and oh yes buy a scooter and pretent to be a hero

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

That the series is not at all historically accurate, and that is because there are very, very little to non existent sources on Ertuğrul, so most of the stuff is just made up, we don't know his religious views, or philosophy.

Actually as @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan have said, Ertuğrul and the first Ottoman Padishahs until Mehmed II had strong emphasises of Sufis, read about Ahilik and Sheikh Edebali if you want to and I think it's very well written into the show...

@Alternatiiv Leave your worries aside. Let me ask you firstly, have you seen this show? If not, please watch it.

The interesting thing about Turkish culture, esp during this time of Seljuks and Ottomans, is that it is analogous to our own experiences of the Dilli Sultanat, Ghaznavi, Ghouri, Mughal, and Durrani eras.

Further, the religious leaning of the show is very much digestible to Pakistanis who are also Sunni Hanafis with a strong emphasis of Sufis, full with warrior Ghazis, Wali/peers, and emphasis on Islamic fiqh (or yearning for it atleast.)

I have watched all 5 seasons long ago, when it first aired on Netflix. Some of my Turkish friends asked me to watch it. I was surprised how the intricacies similar Turkish culture is to our own.

The producers of the show heavily researched the times, and studied the culture of rural Turkmen. Islam is a big part of life in rural Turkish culture, even though some cities are more secular in nature.

 

[Trango Towers]

Actually as @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan have said, Ertuğrul and first Ottoman Padishahs until Mehmed II had strong emphasises of Sufis, read about Ahilik and Sheikh Edebali if you want to

I wonder if in those days they had a choice like we do today? To them a good muslim teacher was just that. A good God fearing man from whom they sought guidance

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

I wonder if in those days they had a choice like we do today? To them a good muslim teacher was just that. A good God fearing man from whom they sought guidance

Maybe, I have no idea on that. But for example, Mehmed II a.k.a the conqueror wanted to become the ceasar of Rome and he had non-Islamic ambitions as much as the Islamic ones; and Suleiman the Magnificent is also famous for his harems. There are also Ottoman sultans like Selim II (son of Suleiman I) who fell and lost his life by chasing a concubine in an hammam

In the decline of the Ottoman Empire, Selim II (1566-1574) was the son of Süleyman I. It's clear that Selim was the first disinterested sultan among the Ottomans. Addicted to sexual and alcoholic pleasures, passing most of his time in the harem, Selim, known in the history as "Selim the Drunk", retired almost completely from the decision- making and administrative apparatus of the Ottoman state.

Sultan Selim II | All About Turkey

The truth is most of the Ottoman sultans were true followers of Islam but there were some exceptions as well...

 

[Trango Towers]

Maybe, I have no idea on that. But for example, Mehmed II a.k.a the conqueror wanted to become the ceasar of Rome and he had non-Islamic ambitions as much as Islamic ones; and Suleiman the Magnificent is also famous for his harems. There are also Ottoman sultans like Selim II (son of Suleiman I) who fell and lost his life by chasing a concubine in hammam

Sultan Selim II | All About Turkey
The truth is most of the Ottoman sultans were true followers of Islam and but there were some exceptions as well...

Muslim leaders and women. Long story loool

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

Muslim leaders and women. Long story loool

There are some rotten apples between them as well but most of the Ottoman sultans were good muslims and true followes of Islam; there are very interesting ones like Osman the young, Murad III, Murad IV or Osman III... My personal favorites are the first 9 sultans, Osman the young and Murad IV. In short, I highly recommend you to read about Ottoman sultans...

You know the saying below?

It is exactly true for the Ottoman sultans as well...

 

[jaibi]

Precisely, this is an introduction and entertainment; you can then engage and inform and educate.

I don't know. I just raised my concern.

 

[M. Sarmad]

It's not just a show, the topic it covers is a pretty strong one for people in Pakistan, shouldn't we consider how it will effect the opinions of people? People talk about '5th Generation Warfare' all the time based off some nobody's tweet with a couple thousand likes, but when it comes to an entire series with around like over 1000 hours of watchable content, with already a sudden millions of viewers, people are not at all concerned about its effect on people and their opinions.

No, we shouldn't. The people are not as foolish and gullible as you are making them out to be..

And have you ever shown similar concern about Hollywood/Bollywood propaganda and how it effects the opinions of people? Surely not

You first need to ask yourself that deep down what is it that you actually fear?

Islamic revival?

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

We love turks we love muslims we love good entertainment everything is available in that series.

These are enough of reasons to watch it and enjoy it big time.

10x better than anything pakistan makes, 100x better than anything india makes and 2x better than anything hollywood makes.

 

[Safriz]

So, lately this series called Diriliş Ertuğrul has taken off really fast in Pakistan, and I mean really fast, thanks to the Government and what I would assert as pan expansionist ideals of people.

It has quickly crossed 15 million views on a single video, which is a lot; and so naturally a lot threads have been up about it... however, our Turkish members here have chosen not to comment on, or share their opinion, barely if so.

So, I talked with some Turkish people, and got to know their opinion. Here's what I got to know.

1. That the series is not at all historically accurate, and that is because there are very, very little to non existent sources on Ertuğrul, so most of the stuff is just made up, we don't know his religious views, or philosophy.
   
2. The series is being used as a political tool by the 'ruling party' and for conservatives. They said that whenever there is a certain political atmosphere, the next episode will subtly address it here and there in their favor.
3. It's not Turkish history, rather religious propaganda. If you want to feed false history as long as it's Islamic propaganda, then this is good for it.

Are these things true? What's your take on the series, I think it's good if you guys share your view because that's sort of an insider view which is more eye opening.

Ofcourse, other views are welcome.

@MMM-E @dBSPL @CAN_TR
Pretty irrelevant topic for Turks right now but a comment would be nice.

How successful Turkish empire was and for how long it sustained itself, the Ertugrul story looks believable.

 

[PakAlp]

No, we shouldn't. The people are not as foolish and gullible as you are making them out to be..

And have you ever shown similar concern about Hollywood/Bollywood propaganda and how it effects the opinions of people? Surely not

You first need to ask yourself that deep down what is it that you actually fear?

Islamic revival?

Good points brother.
Bollywood, StarPlus is watched by nearly every family but nobody fears Indian culture entering our homes, Bollywood music is played everywhere. Hollywood is also watched by many but no complaints, infact people love to follow them and talk about the experience. We even copy how they live in terms of dress, thinking etc.

We should be happy that we have Ertugrul series which talks about Islamic values, culture, Adab, Islam, Jihad, Love, rights of non Muslims etc. It is also very similar to Pakistani culture and way of life, it's our Islamic History.

This series has gone viral in Pakistan and with the coronavirus most people are free from daily life, so many people are watching it. Unbelievable.

Allama Iqbal views on Muslim ummah and unity:

Emphasizing the concept of Brotherhood of Islam, he regretted in Jawab-e-Shikwa: the Prophet of all Musalmans is the same, Din is the same, Iman is the same, Kaba is the same, Allah is the same, Qur’an is the same, is it difficult for the Muslims to be united; there is Firkabundi, different groups and tribes and nations. Is this the way for the Musalmans to progress and become powerful?

The foundation of the Islamic concept of nationalism is constituted by the philosophy of Tauwhid, teachings of Al-Qur’an and the Prophet (Peace be upon Him). In Bang-e-Dara he says that this centre is in Medina. He urged the Muslims to break the idols of nationalism and to be absorbed in Islamic Millat. There is no Irani, Turani and Afghani within the concept of Islam. He further stated that mankind created by Allah is one, but human greed and desire for power have divided them into different groups. In his poem Tulu-e-Islam in Bang-e-Dara, Iqbal called the Muslims to become the messengers of Brotherhood of men which is the message of Islam. In that case all the difference of Hindi, Khorasani, Afghani and Turani will disappear. In Tarana-e-Milli he projects the concept of universalism and the wide vision of a Muslim. “Chin o Arab Hamara Hindustan hamara, Muslim Hain Ham, Watan Hai Sara Jahan Hamara.” China is ours, Arabia is ours, Hindustan is ours, I am Muslim and the whole world is the homeland of ours.” Iqbal rejected the Western idea of the fatherland as the basis of modern political nationalism. In his verses in The Mysteries of Selflessness, it is said “Our essence is not bound to any place, the vigour of our wine is not contained in any bowl, Chinese and Indian alike, the shard that constitutes our jar Turkish and Syrian alike, the clay forming our body; neither is our heart of India, or Syria or Rome nor any fatherland do we profess except Islam.”

Remember guys, just because we talk about Muslim unity, one Ummah etc does not mean Islam is against different countries. In Islam there has always been Makka, Medina, Jerusalem, Shaam, Yemen, Iraq, Kufa etc. Nobody called this haram or nationalism. The problem is when racism and discrimination comes to play. That you will not unite with other Muslims or will not care about their sufferings.

The Muslim countries need to work together to make a Block of Muslim countries. Make a block of Muslim military. Be united against aggression.
If we can have a parliament in the European Union or UN then why not have one for the Muslim countries.