Def.pk op-ed: Mutual Blackmail, ETO for Afg, Pak and Ind

[Developereo]

So what do you think is going to happen in the near future based on the current situation?

So hard to say. There are so many significant changes in the offing: American downsizing in Afghanistan; possible BJP government in India; possibly more assertive leadership change in China as well.

 

[Paan Singh]

I know, right!

There are some "intellectuals" on defense.pk, that think that cooperating with India despite the fact we have territorial disputes is the right thing to do . Pakistan and India are enemies, no one can deny this.


No one is denying that an Asian Union is not needed. An Asian Union is needed and Pakistan, China, and India will be the biggest players in it.

India needs to solve it's territorial disputes according to just and moral principles with Pakistan and China first, if India wants access to Central Asia, or if India wants Pakistan and China to be her allies.

so my post 104 was right!!!!!!!!

 

[Paan Singh]

just cos one indian here on the internet says he doesnt want it doesnt say anything about indian govt. Indian internet warriors here were pro israeli their govt supported palestinians. internet warriors supported western position on libya, indian govt sensibly went for non interference.

i ma not pro israeli or pro zionist.i am just pro indian and very hard core indian.why india recently talked about the pipeline through sea with iran if they could get through pakistan??Reason were 4-->

1)save transit fees
2)save from blackmailing of pakistan.
3)safety of pipeline too.
4)collaboration of pipeline development with oman.

and in future,indian and chinese interest are going to collide and pakistan will be going to work as an chinese stooge.
and people here say to transfer goods or pipeline through pakistan???no way..whatever u call me...i will bet on making better relations with iran too rather than pakistan.

+
american presence is necessary in region as india is in no position to tackle the china,possibly china + pakistan in region.

 

[Vinod2070]

More assertive governments in India and China are definitely going to happen shortly.

The next generation leadership in India across the political spectrum is more assertive and less constrained by the factors that constrained the almost senile leadership that we have now and that is incapable of taking bold decisions for the most part.

There is a good chance that the next decade in Indo-Pak relations may be better than any we have had so far as new and hopefully more pragmatic and hard nosed leadership takes over.

 

[PakShah]

so my post 104 was right!!!!!!!!

And you are trying to say...that Pakistan and India can't trust each other?

Absolutely! Spot on! You are right!

Wasn't it obvious!

Just because some "intellectuals" thought that the territorial disputes could be ignored in order to have this "Asian Union Theory" was total nonsense.

Pakistan, China, and India can never stand in the same political platform (Asian Union Theory) against the west unless India solves it's territorial disputes with Pakistan, China and Nepal according to just and moral principles.

 

[Paan Singh]

And you are trying to say...that Pakistan and India can't trust each other?

Absolutely! Spot on! You are right!

Wasn't it obvious!

Just because some "intellectuals" thought that the territorial disputes could be ignored in order to have this "Asian Union Theory" was total nonsense.

Pakistan, China, and India can never stand in the same political platform (Asian Union Theory) against the west unless India solves it's territorial disputes with Pakistan, China and Nepal according to just and moral principles.

if this is the case then it is ok to be like this...india is in better position on table and always will be..
there will be give and takes.if you only want then its ur mistake or come in better position to negotiate.
you tried every way but dint get it.

 

[muse]

Lets keep our focus -- the thrust of this thread as outlined by our respected member VC is that a tie between Afghanistan, Pakistan and India, under the the stewardship (benign colonialism) of the US is a net plus for all ---- We have argued that such a construct is a non-starter because other important layers, and none more important than Iran, are not include and indeed that this is indicative of what may be ins store for others - "Unkil" does not like it when you don't treat him with deference he feels is due to him cause he threw money at you.

Others such as Pakshah are accepting of the idea that for the promise of a free Asia to be realized it has to be an Asia that is led by Asians, not default Asians such as the US, but for this to be realized India must fix her border problems -- However, we must ask, will Pakshah and the opinion he represents so ably, then also be willing to accord India support for recognition as a permanent seat on the security council? Will they then open their hearts to India as they do to our great neighbor and brother, for indeed, brothers are those who are with you in every struggle, and whose counsel you value deeply, even as their counsel will leave a bitter unpalatable taste of a difficult truth ?

The issue to keep your focus on is the US - not India - India may sek to align her interests with those of the US and who can blame them for their judgment - Lets be very clear, the day Pakistan and India and China and India are normalized, there will be a great wailing and sorrow in the West and particularly in the US.

With your permission, allow me to state a truth, it's a bit crude and "Unkil" may feel it harsh and undeserving - but is not the path to hell laid with good intentions - It does not matter what the US will touch. even if it's gold, it will turn to fecal matter in Muslim majority countries - and really the time for "stewardship" is past .

So what is Unkil to do? Unkil wants a SOFA with their favorite Afghan mayor and is bound and determined to get it - our Indian friends see much merit in this approach and indeed some in Pakistan are arguing that it is the lesser of two evils -- should we buy into this line of reasoning? After all, if a reduced US military presence is a good, then zero US military presence must be better , hain ji?

See, so long as US military presence persists, commercial ambitions will not succeed - Stewardship is over, kaput! But the US remains unpersuaded.

 

[PakShah]

Lets keep our focus -- the thrust of this thread as outlined by our respected member VC is that a tie between Afghanistan, Pakistan and India, under the the stewardship (benign colonialism) of the US is a net plus for all ---- We have argued that such a construct is a non-starter because other important layers, and none more important than Iran, are not include and indeed that this is indicative of what may be ins store for others - "Unkil" does not like it when you don't treat him with deference he feels is due to him cause he threw money at you.

Others such as Pakshah are accepting of the idea that for the promise of a free Asia to be realized it has to be an Asia that is led by Asians, not default Asians such as the US, but for this to be realized India must fix her border problems -- However, we must ask, will Pakshah and the opinion he represents so ably, then also be willing to accord India support for recognition as a permanent seat on the security council? Will they then open their hearts to India as they do to our great neighbor and brother, for indeed, brothers are those who are with you in every struggle, and whose counsel you value deeply, even as their counsel will leave a bitter unpalatable taste of a difficult truth ?

The issue to keep your focus on is the US - not India - India may sek to align her interests with those of the US and who can blame them for their judgment - Lets be very clear, the day Pakistan and India and China and India are normalized, there will be a great wailing and sorrow in the West and particularly in the US.

With your permission, allow me to state a truth, it's a bit crude and "Unkil" may feel it harsh and undeserving - but is not the path to hell laid with good intentions - It does not matter what the US will touch. even if it's gold, it will turn to fecal matter in Muslim majority countries - and really the time for "stewardship" is past .

So what is Unkil to do? Unkil wants a SOFA with their favorite Afghan mayor and is bound and determined to get it - our Indian friends see much merit in this approach and indeed some in Pakistan are arguing that it is the lesser of two evils -- should we buy into this line of reasoning? After all, if a reduced US military presence is a good, then zero US military presence must be better , hain ji?

See, so long as US military presence persists, commercial ambitions will not succeed - Stewardship is over, kaput! But the US remains unpersuaded.

muse, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and India reaching the same political platform is not an old concept in itself. Its because there are conflicts in the region!

However thanks to brilliant minds of PDF or defense.pk, we have a THEORY! The theory of an Asian Union!

From the Islamic world to China. From Russia to Indonesia.

It might sound ludicrous at first, but it could be possible.

If India can solve her territorial disputes according to just and moral principles, and if India fits the requirements in order to be a UNSC permanent member, then I see why not. Countries should be a permanent member of the UNSC only if they fit the requirements.

Or why not just abolish the UNSC itself? Why can't everyone be a part of the UNSC

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

There is a good chance that the next decade in Indo-Pak relations may be better than any we have had so far as new and hopefully more pragmatic and hard nosed leadership takes over.

How do you figure that, given the direction of US-Pak relations under an 'assertive US leadership'?

 

[Bang Galore]

Well thats more expensive and in time of strife easier to disrupt especially if gwador base has been leased to china lol and chinese navy has a nice big naval base with aircraft killer missiles but what india does is a matter for india,

Not easier to disrupt when compared to a land pipeline which can be just switched off or an arrangement made to blow up parts of it by some "dastardly terrorists" within Pakistani borders. An attack on an pipeline in international waters would be treated as an act of war & the supplying country won't be much happier either. Costlier- yup but safer-most definitely.

 

[illusion8]

The whole idea is flawed. America is no longer in a position to give lots of money and they would have to to get this off the ground. They cant be leaving and be dictating a bit hard for them to swallow I know. If I was the indian govt I would jump at it its good for them. It moves pakistan a little away from china. Kashmir is forgotten about and therefore resolved as far as indias concerned. India no matter how it tries does not have the strategic location that Pakistan has. No amount of wishfull thinking on america and indias part is going to change this reality. The natural deal here and muse in an earlier post inferred to it is iran, afghanistan and pakistanis. Iranians and pakistanis already had influence in afghanistan befor america. amidhavejacket has already been making noises about this. If america really wanted a deal here they have to address one of pakistans core issues. They have to give us our pound of flesh. That is get the indians to do a deal with pakistan on kashmir favourable to us. Under those circumstances Indians are unlikely to play and will take there bat home. In fact I think that would be a seismic move and probably would move pakistan away from china a little if americans could deliver on kashmir. With a deal between iran afghan and pakistan it is more likely that with these chinas influence will rise lol the exact opposite of what america and india wanted. lol Indians have to deal with these three countries and china. They can do it without american interference and push for a deal I think that they would get a deal but not to their liking as pakistan will drive the deal to resolve kashmir. Or they nwould be isolated and probably get a good kicking some time in the future for siding with america

Pakistan has only one lever and that is AF and needs to utilize this to its benefit and you are right to think that Pak should use it to get the Kashmir issue resolved, But Pakistan has been trying to get the US involved since decades and I don't think US will venture into a resolution in Kashmir. Pakistan tried their best all these days when US was their staunchest ally and couldn't get a squeak out of them for all these years, so it would be prudent on its part to realize that it will bear no result.

 

[muse]

Not easier to disrupt when compared to a land pipeline which can be just switched off or an arrangement made to blow up parts of it by some "dastardly terrorists" within Pakistani borders. An attack on an pipeline in international waters would be treated as an act of war & the supplying country won't be much happier either. Costlier- yup but safer-most definitely.

And who would be blamed? How will we know who dun'it?

 

[Paan Singh]

And who would be blamed? How will we know who dun'it?

it will be safeguard by joint ship patrolling and its under hundreds of meters so no terrorist cant even touch it.
btw,what is the guarantee of pipeline at the land??

 

[muse]

There isn't one --

 

[iPhone]

More assertive governments in India and China are definitely going to happen shortly.

The next generation leadership in India across the political spectrum is more assertive and less constrained by the factors that constrained the almost senile leadership that we have now and that is incapable of taking bold decisions for the most part.

There is a good chance that the next decade in Indo-Pak relations may be better than any we have had so far as new and hopefully more pragmatic and hard nosed leadership takes over.

Next generation of Pakistan government is going to be more assertive, too.
More mature and strong. So yeah I agree with you that later part of this decade going into next decade the relationship of not just indo-Pak but with other nations in the region will be a lot better also.