Def.pk op-ed: Mutual Blackmail, ETO for Afg, Pak and Ind

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

However, the only part that Pakistan can offer to India, where India will not only greatly benefit, but will also be completely dependent on Pakistan, would be a transition route through Pakistan, to Afghanistan, to Central Asia. But if such a scenario were really feasible, and we include the US as a party too, then the IPI pipeline would have already materialized, don't you think?

I don't think a comparison of a transit route, for India, through Pakistan, Afghanistan and the CAR's, for trade, with the IPI Pipeline is correct.

The IPI (or any transit route involving fuel/energy of any kind) makes India and the Indian economy dependent upon Pakistan - the 'trade transit' we are talking about does not make either India or the Indian economy dependent upon Pakistan, since non-energy trade with Afghanistan and the CAR's will likely be a very small component of overall Indian trade and economic activity.

If anything, non-energy trade and transit through Pakistan could in fact lead to energy based trade through Pakistan, as relations normalize and trust and mutual dependence increases.

 

[PakShah]

I don't think an ETO or an ECO between Pakistan and India will work.
India needs to solve her territorial disputes according to just and moral principles, if India wants to to do anything substantial with Pakistan.

 

[lem34]

See aryan, once upon a time the dollar was backed by Gold - untiel the french showed up with Euro-Dollars and sought Gold from the US - this led the US to get off the Gold Standard --- today the backing of the Dollar in real terms, is Middle East oil -- but there is an even bigger advantage fro the US, every Dollar it prints costs it 19 cents and the rest of the world thrown in 81 cents of value in terms of what is called "confidence" but is in reality the value assigned to outstanding debt denominated in dollar that they hold -- See "Millstone around China" and "Meltdown" threads

Brilliant for the first time on the forum since i have been on this forum and talked about this american problem someones come on and clearly links arabs and america. Can you imagine if the masses in the muslims world realised how complicit their leaders are with americas killing fields

 

[lem34]

I don't think a comparison of a transit route, for India, through Pakistan, Afghanistan and the CAR's, for trade, with the IPI Pipeline is correct.

The IPI (or any transit route involving fuel/energy of any kind) makes India and the Indian economy dependent upon Pakistan - the 'trade transit' we are talking about does not make either India or the Indian economy dependent upon Pakistan, since non-energy trade with Afghanistan and the CAR's will likely be a very small component of overall Indian trade and economic activity.

If anything, non-energy trade and transit through Pakistan could in fact lead to energy based trade through Pakistan, as relations normalize and trust and mutual dependence increases.

I think there's only room for one pipeline. Tapi favoured by americans and ipi not so favoured by americans. I think ipi is the one that is more realistic and the one that will eventually come in to fruition. I think the iranians and pakistanis have signed up to it. However india may end up being replaced with china in due course if they ally with americans. Ideally it would be iran-pakistan and then china india joining. china will join or start it in about 5 years i reckon

 

[Paan Singh]

I think there's only room for one pipeline. Tapi favoured by americans and ipi not so favoured by americans. I think ipi is the one that is more realistic and the one that will eventually come in to fruition. I think the iranians and pakistanis have signed up to it. However india may end up being replaced with china in due course if they ally with americans. Ideally it would be iran-pakistan and then china india joining. china will join or start it in about 5 years i reckon

if india cant join ipi due to dependence on pakistan then how can india let its good to pass through pakistan to other countries or car region??india wont make its economy reliable on pakistan and its black mailing.and you guys insert kashmir issue every where even while watching bollywood and india is not ready to compromise.

 

[muse]

Brilliant for the first time on the forum since i have been on this forum and talked about this american problem someones come on and clearly links arabs and america. Can you imagine if the masses in the muslims world realised how complicit their leaders are with americas killing fields

Yeah I can imagine - it's a reality we all hide from - that's why if you look at the "Foreign policy of Dignity" thead, you will see that we have argued from day one that the so called Arab spring is not about "democracy" but about Dignity - the Dignity of the ordinary person - and that is why we have consistently pointed out that the Arbis and let me be clear only the Peninsula and Gulf are arbis (just because you and I are conversing in English does not makes us Englishmen) and that these tyrannies are a mortal threat to Muslims.

 

[lem34]

if india cant join ipi due to dependence on pakistan then how can india let its good to pass through pakistan to other countries or car region??india wont make its economy reliable on pakistan and its black mailing.and you guys insert kashmir issue every where even while watching bollywood and india is not ready to compromise.

Well in the scramble for energy and resources between china and india with a third of the worlds population between them and pakistan being where it is in such a strategic location something has to give. Or i suppose you can go the long way around but then china would have an advantage over india. Its sad in life sometimes you cant have your cake and eat it i suppose. lol

 

[PakShah]

I think there's only room for one pipeline. Tapi favoured by americans and ipi not so favoured by americans. I think ipi is the one that is more realistic and the one that will eventually come in to fruition. I think the iranians and pakistanis have signed up to it. However india may end up being replaced with china in due course if they ally with americans. Ideally it would be iran-pakistan and then china india joining. china will join or start it in about 5 years i reckon

If there is such a pipeline between Iran and Pakistan, China should be added to the pipeline. India cannot be included.

 

[muse]

If there is such a pipeline between Iran and Pakistan, China should be added to the pipeline. India cannot be included.

Be reasonable - the entire idea of IPI was from an Indian - be reasonable - if in 64 years Kashmir has remained unresolved, we can be a little patient with each other

 

[Paan Singh]

Well in the scramble for energy and resources between china and india with a third of the worlds population between them and pakistan being where it is in such a strategic location something has to give. Or i suppose you can go the long way around but then china would have an advantage over india. Its sad in life sometimes you cant have your cake and eat it i suppose. lol

i dont think so.india can surely bypass ur location by sea link or pipe line through sea and i hope this project will be passed on next visit to iran by mms + i hope that nuclear deal further moves till its end
btw,you are free to give your strategic location to any body or china.

 

[lem34]

If there is such a pipeline between Iran and Pakistan, China should be added to the pipeline. India cannot be included.

well iran and pak have signed up to it india has been dithering cos of american presssure. I think they have started to build it. China has said that its not in its immediate plans but they would look at it again in the future. I think the chinese dont want to openly come out in the open yet and confront/challenge america yet. But I think its inevitable that china will join and in due course India will reluctantly join it in the absence of choice.

 

[lem34]

i dont think so.india can surely bypass ur location by sea link or pipe line through sea and i hope this project will be passed on next visit to iran by mms + i hope that nuclear deal further moves till its end
btw,you are free to give your strategic location to any body or china.

Well thats more expensive and in time of strife easier to disrupt especially if gwador base has been leased to china lol and chinese navy has a nice big naval base with aircraft killer missiles but what india does is a matter for india,

 

[muse]

Well thats more expensive and in time of strife easier to disrupt especially if gwador base has been leased to china lol and chinese navy has a nice big naval base with aircraft killer missiles but what india does is a matter for india,

Look, IO know a little something about that Oman project (recall the Dhabol project) and that line's main problem from a techical point of view is it's expense and of course, if you care about security, well you realize the implications - so until those problems are worked out... BVut first a question, why such kinds of plans? Mutual dependence is not a net negative, however this thread is about playing in a field that the US decides the rules of the game in - that's a different kind of game, isn't it??

 

[Paan Singh]

Well thats more expensive and in time of strife easier to disrupt especially if gwador base has been leased to china lol and chinese navy has a nice big naval base with aircraft killer missiles but what india does is a matter for india,

not at all,its a one time cost and we can save transit fees to pakistan and its blackmailing too.
for rest of the post,i can say a lot but not here in this thread.

one thing i got from this post that you seem to be chinese lover ignoring the present facts and china will have their base in a-stan when america will leave afghanistan and china will never want a disturbed gwadar

but for now,just concentrate on first line of my post,rest is the answer of ur last part of ur post..

 

[lem34]

Well thats more expensive and in time of strife easier to disrupt especially if gwador base has been leased to china lol and chinese navy has a nice big naval base with aircraft killer missiles but what india does is a matter for india,

oh just saw the map I thought most of their oil went to japan and south korea not india