Def.pk op-ed: Mutual Blackmail, ETO for Afg, Pak and Ind

[lem34]

Bottom line this deal suits india and america, nothing in it for pakistan. I think both pakistan and india are starting to move anyway. India has started activity in afghanistan, pakistan has started moves towards Iran. Pakistan will not fall in line with american and or indian plans unless approprietly incentivised its simple as that. I think once iran pakistan pipeline is in place if iran wants india or china to join it will simply reduce price and india and or china will join and we will have a fait accompli. India could end up being marginalised

 

[Developereo]

India could end up being marginalised

I wouldn't go that far. India is by far the largest economy in south Asia and an important player. Pakistan should engage with India but it has to be a hard-nosed, business decision compatible with our national interests. This particular proposition is problematic in my opinion for all the reasons discussed above.

 

[VCheng]

I wouldn't go that far. India is by far the largest economy in south Asia and an important player. Pakistan should engage with India but it has to be a hard-nosed, business decision compatible with our national interests. This particular proposition is problematic in my opinion for all the reasons discussed above.

I think that coming developments may prove the validity of my original argument:

"The art of mutual blackmail between Pakistan and its neighbors may yet in time be elevated to the higher level of friendship." VCheng.

Source: Gilani gives go-ahead for electricity import from India | Newspaper | DAWN.COM

 

[Developereo]

I think that coming developments may prove the validity of my original argument:

Not to go off-topic, but from the link you gave:

SLAMABAD: With the cost of 969MW Neelum-Jhelum Hydropower Project (NJHP) having increased several times owing mainly to inordinate delays, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani gave a go-ahead on Tuesday for importing electricity from India
[...]
When contacted, Water and Power Secretary Imtiaz Kazi told Dawn that the prime minister did not call for an investigation into the unprecedented cost overruns to fix responsibility, but desired that the Cabinet Committee on Energy headed by Finance Minister Dr Hafeez Shaikh should scrutinise the issue.

So, basically, we have the incompetent traitor paindoos shirking responsibility, passing the buck and looking for short-term patches. India may well get its way with these clowns "leading" the country,

 

[indushek]

Not to go off-topic, but from the link you gave:

SLAMABAD: With the cost of 969MW Neelum-Jhelum Hydropower Project (NJHP) having increased several times owing mainly to inordinate delays, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani gave a go-ahead on Tuesday for importing electricity from India
[...]
When contacted, Water and Power Secretary Imtiaz Kazi told Dawn that the prime minister did not call for an investigation into the unprecedented cost overruns to fix responsibility, but desired that the Cabinet Committee on Energy headed by Finance Minister Dr Hafeez Shaikh should scrutinise the issue.

So, basically, we have the incompetent traitor paindoos shirking responsibility, passing the buck and looking for short-term patches. India may well get its way with these clowns "leading" the country,

Reasons may be numerous but the outcome is what is being suggested, u know. However the Chinese angle not being considered can topple equations according to me.

 

[VCheng]

...........................

So, basically, we have the incompetent traitor paindoos shirking responsibility, passing the buck and looking for short-term patches. India may well get its way with these clowns "leading" the country,

More from the "clowns":

Cabinet approves MFN status for India

Cabinet has approved to give Most Favoured Nation status to India on Wednesday.

The cabinet meeting chaired by Prime Minster Syed Yousaf Raza Gilani was held in Islamabad in which India was given the status of Most favoured Nation.

Federal cabinet also agreed to boost the volume of trade with India and to fully implement all the trade agreements inked between Pakistan and India.

Dunya News: Pakistan:-Cabinet approves MFN status for India...

---------- Post added at 05:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:36 PM ----------

Congrats to all Indian and Pakistanis, that were in favor of trade. A great news indeed.

---------- Post added at 05:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:37 PM ----------

Pakistan grants India MFN status

Pakistan grants India MFN status - NDTV Profit

 

[lem34]

I wouldn't go that far. India is by far the largest economy in south Asia and an important player. Pakistan should engage with India but it has to be a hard-nosed, business decision compatible with our national interests. This particular proposition is problematic in my opinion for all the reasons discussed above.

Maybe marginalised was the wrong word to use. But certainly India will not be able to fulfil their potential would be a better way of putting it

 

[lem34]

Not to go off-topic, but from the link you gave:

SLAMABAD: With the cost of 969MW Neelum-Jhelum Hydropower Project (NJHP) having increased several times owing mainly to inordinate delays, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani gave a go-ahead on Tuesday for importing electricity from India
[...]
When contacted, Water and Power Secretary Imtiaz Kazi told Dawn that the prime minister did not call for an investigation into the unprecedented cost overruns to fix responsibility, but desired that the Cabinet Committee on Energy headed by Finance Minister Dr Hafeez Shaikh should scrutinise the issue.

So, basically, we have the incompetent traitor paindoos shirking responsibility, passing the buck and looking for short-term patches. India may well get its way with these clowns "leading" the country,

when push comes to shove the deal as postulated by the op is a no goer and vested interest in pakistan may go around the bushes but will not allow the kind of access through pakistan to afghanistan no matter what. I still think the wishes of afghanis are going to have to ne taken into account and Karzai simply has no legitamcy other than through an occupying force

 

[VCheng]

............Pakistan will not fall in line with american and or indian plans unless approprietly incentivised its simple as that. ........................

So you conceded that once "appropriately incentivized" Pakistan WILL fall in line? Who better to provide the "incentives" than the "friend-worse-than-an-enemy" USA?

 

[lem34]

I dont get it why do you even consider what the op postulates when the deal ignores: iran, china, afghanis and pakistanis????

---------- Post added at 12:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 PM ----------

So you conceded that once "appropriately incentivized" Pakistan WILL fall in line? Who better to provide the "incentives" than the "friend-worse-than-an-enemy" USA?

When I say incentive I mean kashmir lol

 

[VCheng]

..................

When I say incentive I mean kashmir lol

The best Pakistan can hope to get is the LoC converted into the recognized border, and even that is not likely.

 

[lem34]

The best Pakistan can hope to get is the LoC converted into the recognized border, and even that is not likely.

Look at wikileaks pakistan through mushy has already been offered that. Pak is not accepting that and that goes beyond what you have just stated.

Pakistan's former Foreign Minister Khurshid Mahmud Kasuri had told NDTV in January this year that both India and Pakistan had almost signed off on a draft agreement on Kashmir. This agreement included self-governance on both sides of the Line of Control and a joint mechanism to oversee governance, he had said. (Read)

Mr Kasuri had also claimed that India and Pakistan's near resolution of the Kashmir issue had the backing of Pakistan's present Army Chief General Ashfaq Kayani.


Read more at: WikiLeaks: 'Reached understanding with Musharraf on Kashmir,' PM told US delegation

 

[VCheng]

Look at wikileaks pakistan through mushy has already been offered that. Pak is not accepting that and that goes beyond what you have just stated.

...................

Mr Kasuri had also claimed that India and Pakistan's near resolution of the Kashmir issue had the backing of Pakistan's present Army Chief General Ashfaq Kayani.


.....................[/url]

A "near" resolution is NO resolution of the matter. I stand by my assessment as stated above.

 

[lem34]

A deal acceptable to pakistan is the only way pakistan would even contemplate the deal that you are suggesting. We would effectivly be ignoring our strongest ally in the region to do what you postulate. The price for that must be high.

---------- Post added at 12:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 PM ----------

A "near" resolution is NO resolution of the matter. I stand by my assessment as stated above.

Simply semantics. You have stated pakistan will be lucky to get loc recognised. Thats a very Indian type of feeling you have. I now know why others question your loyalty to pakistan. Pakistan have refused more and you are saying we will be lucky to get less lol

---------- Post added at 12:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 PM ----------

“That Musharraf’s Kashmir formula, which in effect gave the region dominion status under a joint Indo-Pakistani dispensation, and which the Indian prime minister Manmohan Singh almost accepted, has been lying on the wayside for the previous four years indicates that Pakistan seeks more from any future deal,” South Asia expert Sunil Sharan wrote in The Huffington Post.

Pakistan may be playing for bigger stake in Kashmir | Firstpost

I rest my case we will be lucky yea rite cheng. Why dont we give them azad kasmir as well and agree to the deal that you postulate. Tell you what we give up our sovnty that will make india and america happy. Then pakistan can be used to encircle china wow lets go for it open the bottles of champagne you have done it cheng wwaaaaaaaaah

 

[VCheng]

Simply semantics. You have stated pakistan will be lucky to get loc recognised. Thats a very Indian type of feeling you have. I now know why others question your loyalty to pakistan. Pakistan have refused more and you are saying we will be lucky to get less lol

It is pity that deal fell through, but having been offered more in the past is no basis to expect the same or even more in the future. I have no "Indian type of feelings", merely logic. I am secure in my loyalty, so I do not need anybody's approval of it.

“That Musharraf’s Kashmir formula, which in effect gave the region dominion status under a joint Indo-Pakistani dispensation, and which the Indian prime minister Manmohan Singh almost accepted, has been lying on the wayside for the previous four years indicates that Pakistan seeks more from any future deal,” South Asia expert Sunil Sharan wrote in The Huffington Post.

Pakistan may be playing for bigger stake in Kashmir | Firstpost

Pakistan may seek all it wants; what it may actually get is what matters.

I rest my case we will be lucky yea rite cheng. Why dont we give them azad kasmir as well and agree to the deal that you postulate. Tell you what we give up our sovnty that will make india and america happy. Then pakistan can be used to encircle china wow lets go for it open the bottles of champagne you have done it cheng wwaaaaaaaaah

What you mean to say is to give up what's left of our sovereignty, right? If Pakistan does not wake up and smell the "roses", what you say in sarcastic jest may become a tragedy for real.