Def.pk op-ed: Mutual Blackmail, ETO for Afg, Pak and Ind

[lem34]

^^^^^^^^ India and america can want what they want? Your op and deal that you postulated is a non starter. It ignores afghanis, pakistanis, iranians who must be part of the deal. Why are you ignoring the fact that strategic location has a part to play? Why america and india must be happy but ignore china? Why simply why?

We keep going around the bushes. No no the deal you have put forward is crap for the neighbourhood and is not thought provoking but s-i-m-p-l-y flawed for the reasons that I and others have put forward. Even santro told you to go back to the drawing board.

You state you are secure in your loyalty, you do not need anybody's approval of it. Well thats good because you are not going to get that approval from others

 

[LaBong]

Do Pakistanis realise that the economic and military gap between India and Pakistan will only widen at each passing day and status-quo is particularly helpful for India as Pakistan losing whatever bargaining power they had with growing regional and global clout of India. Pakistan already has lost the capability of getting Kashmir in conventional warfare, it's more of question of defending themselves now.

 

[VCheng]

^^^^^^^^ India and amercia can want what they want? Your op and deal that you postulated is a non starter. It ignores afghanis, pakistanis, iranians who must be part of the deal. Why are you ignoring the fact that strategic location has a part to play? Why america and india must be happy but ignore china? Why simply why?

What I state in the op-ed has already started!

Location is only one aspect; I am not ignoring other factors, or other countries.

It is not a matter of who is "happy"; it is merely a matter of who is able to further their national interests as best as they can, in competition where they clash, and in collaboration where they coincide.

That is the way international geopolitics works, always has, and always will, that is why.

---------- Post added at 09:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 AM ----------

Do Pakistanis realise that the economic and military gap between India and Pakistan will only widen at each passing day and status-quo is particularly helpful for India as Pakistan losing whatever bargaining power they had with growing regional and global clout of India. Pakistan already has lost the capability of getting Kashmir in conventional warfare, it's more of question of defending themselves now.

Some of us do, most do not - yet.

 

[lem34]

What I state in the op-ed has already started!

Location is only one aspect; I am not ignoring other factors, or other countries.

It is not a matter of who is "happy"; it is merely a matter of who is able to further their national interests as best as they can, in competition where they clash, and in collaboration where they coincide.

That is the way international geopolitics works, always has, and always will, that is why.

---------- Post added at 09:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 AM ----------



Some of us do, most do not - yet.

So has iranian pakistan oil pipeline. Pakistan in any event is playing a double game just to wrong foot americans. It wouldnt be the first time pakistan has played this role.

 

[LaBong]

Some of us do, most do not - yet.

Well they should remember not everyone in India is ready to walk the extra mile, not everyone in India was born in now what is Pakistan. Most of the administrative posts are occupied by people from deep south and east, and they don't have a "shared destiny" with Pakistan.

 

[lem34]

Do Pakistanis realise that the economic and military gap between India and Pakistan will only widen at each passing day and status-quo is particularly helpful for India as Pakistan losing whatever bargaining power they had with growing regional and global clout of India. Pakistan already has lost the capability of getting Kashmir in conventional warfare, it's more of question of defending themselves now.

You could say the same about chinese indian relationship. You accept chinese clout over india?

---------- Post added at 01:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 PM ----------

Some of us do, most do not - yet.

Most will never in pakistan

 

[Mech]

Well they should remember not everyone in India is ready to walk the extra mile, not everyone in India was born in now what is Pakistan. Most of the administrative posts are occupied by people from deep south and east, and they don't have a "shared destiny" with Pakistan.

Completely agreed. People like me from the south have no sentimental feelings towards the people from across the border. For us the picture is pretty straightforward. It has to be a give and take policy. They have to reciprocate the good gestures shown by India. Otherwise, the whole effort is a sham and a pure waste of time.

---------- Post added at 06:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:46 PM ----------

When you consider India vs china. We are actually pushing to bridge the technological gap. We have the means and the motivation. It is only a matter of time

 

[LaBong]

You could say the same about chinese indian relationship. You accept chinese clout over india?

---------- Post added at 01:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 PM ----------



Most will never in pakistan

Our position vis-a-vis China is defensive, we want the present loc to be recognized as international border. China doesn't enjoy numerical or technological superiority over India to invade and occupy Arunachal Pradesh.

In case of India-Pakistan, Pakistan wants to play the aggressor and liberate Kashmir, well good luck at that!

 

[lem34]

We are somewhat going well off topic. The suggestion by the Op is simply flawed and not in pakistans interests. Pakistan will never accept first for itself to be encircled by india and secondly to allow itself to be used against china and chinas encirclement without incentives eg kashmir resolution.

 

[VCheng]

We are somewhat going well off topic. The suggestion by the Op is simply flawed and not in pakistans interests. Pakistan will never accept first for itself to be encircled by india and secondly to allow itself to be used against china and chinas encirclement without incentives eg kashmir resolution.

I respect your opinion, but I think events will very likely prove me right rather than you.

 

[Developereo]

What I state in the op-ed has already started!

All it proves is that Pakistani politicians have succumbed to American pressure after Hillary's visit. Not that we expected much from them to start with. Nowhere does it imply that these moves are in Pakistan's national interest. In fact, coming from this government, it is almost a guarantee that they are not.

I thought we were debating whether this particular proposal would be in Pakistan's national interests. If all we are doing is predicting the next treason by Pakistan's politicains, then that's a whole different discussion.

 

[Pfpilot]

Do Pakistanis realise that the economic and military gap between India and Pakistan will only widen at each passing day and status-quo is particularly helpful for India as Pakistan losing whatever bargaining power they had with growing regional and global clout of India. Pakistan already has lost the capability of getting Kashmir in conventional warfare, it's more of question of defending themselves now.

Much of my gripe with Pakistani policy comes down to this point. We are trying to fight head on against a nation that is rapidly leaving us behind. Every day we don't negotiate and find a solution to our problems, the less leverage we have. The solution we could have accomplished in the 80s would've been far more beneficial than what we'll get today and tomorrow paints an even bleaker picture of Pakistan's standing in world politics, in relation to India.
India is on an inevitable rise to a prominent player on the world stage, Pakistan will be hard pressed to get any of its issues resolved in a world where India can easily influence international opinion in its favor. I am leaving out the military side of things, because, even at this point, our position is defensive...it completely contradicts the reason we have a large military in the first place. The idea was to liberate Kashmir, well at this point, our military is totally defensive in strength...is it not time for peace or compromise, simply because our goal is now impossible to accomplish?

 

[oyea]

There's already an SCO to manage CAR related economic affairs. What's the point of attending this ECO??

 

[dabong1]

It's not that I have anything against India but, as long as Kashmir remains unresolved, we are just fooling ourselves that relations can be normalized.

Perfectly said

 

[Developereo]

There's always more than one way to skin a cat.

For Pakistanis mired in a defeatist attitude, it is important to remember that India is not becoming the superpower like America. At most, it is going to be one of a multitude of major players -- most likely a junior player -- and there is going to be plenty of rivalry and politics at the top. With new power come new enemies (and friends).

So far, India has been the darling of the West because it is not taken seriously as a threat to their hegemony like China is. That calculation can change real fast.

Pakistan doesn't need to defeat India militarily, nor does it need to sacrifice its national interests in a panic to cosy up to India. It only needs to attain sufficient strength to be a credible and valued partner to any of the other major powers. That means focussing on our economy and foreign relations. It means forging new partnerships, but never at the expense of our existing allies.

The show hasn't even started yet. There is no need to panic and sacrifice our national interests. We need to focus on strengthening Pakistan.

And keep the popcorn handy.