'Death Squads' in Swat?

[Conscientious objector]

Can you clarify are they fighting for revenge,money or islam ?

It seems the initial goal of the TTP was to assist in the Jihad against America in neighboring Afghanistan.

Every one know TTP attacks killed also innocient civilian and suiciodel attack is haram in islam still you support them?

If the TTP have intentionally targeted civilians then I condemn such barbaric and anti Islamic actions.
There is a difference in intentional targeting of civilians, and civilians being killed unintentionally as a result of resistance operations. With regard to martyrdom operations then the Ulema have differed over this masala, there is much detail related to the ruling on this.

Why dont they fight in Afghanistan and Palestine?

I think they would if the government of Pakistan would allow them to do so.

Agreed we should not support USA for continue attacks in afghanistan.

The TTP are a reaction to G.O.P support for the American crusade.

 

[Skywalker]

Because I do not support extra judicial killings and I'm against fighting a proxy war for America in which my Muslim Pakistani people suffer?
Nobody is in favor of extra judicial killing, but these militants do not desrve to be trialed in court of law. Instead of passing on comments on this forum why dont you just start doin something in practical.


Why don't you change yours to Zardari's poodle?
I will definitly give a thought to your advise my dear Taliban Admirer.

I take it your embedded in a trench with the Pak fauj on the front line then.
You have no idea where I am right now, I am not a ostrich like you who just sits and make noises.


On the contrary I think she is a very brave woman even though I hold contrasting views to hers.

Yes she is very brave after disgracing Pakistan in Indian Media, still alive and surviving. So the credit definitely goes to the army and the civil society.


Why aren't you more vociferous in your condemnations of the actions of the G.O.P? Why is all your criticism directed toward the Taliban?According to what you have stated the G.O.P bears responsibility for the most part for initiating a chain of events that has led to this brutal war in Pakistan
There is no brutal war going on, do you have any idea what brutal war means.


You agree that they were attacked by the G.O.P so their uptake of arms was an act of self defense.They see the fight against America as being a religious obligation so in essence the G.O.P were seeking to prevent them from carrying out this obligation.Yes you will argue that they shouldn't do it from Pakistani territory, but surely the G.O.P could have sought to prevent them from launching cross border attacks without resorting to an all out conflict. No?

The problem with people like you is , that you drag Islam in everything if you cant answer anything. by looking at your comments Talibans acts of beheading and killing innocent Pakistanis are totally justified religeously. Wow ....

 

[TOPGUN]

This is nothing compare to wat these sick coward taliban do or have done i have seen some videos which make me sick and then say Allah maf kara ! so as you all know wat goes around comes around they wana hurt people kill people destory our way or life then its time we become a pain in there A$$ as well!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Why aren't you more vociferous in your condemnations of the actions of the G.O.P? Why is all your criticism directed toward the Taliban?According to what you have stated the G.O.P bears responsibility for the most part for initiating a chain of events that has led to this brutal war in Pakistan

The US invasion and the GoP's support for that invasion, including the deployment of troops to attempt to halt cross border Taliban attacks and movement, was responsible for the Taliban uprising in Pakistan, BUT, that does not mean that the Taliban uprising itself was justified.

If you send police squads into a lawless area to try and clamp down on crime, and the criminals decide to band together and recruit even more locals into their gangs and start attacks against the entire state for sending in the police, you don't blame the government for deploying the police and call the criminals 'heroes' and 'defenders of their territory'.

The Taliban and the tribes that supported them should have stood down when the Army was deployed and the State of Pakistan took a particular position in the WoT. I said in another thread, there is no country in the world where people are happy with every single policy put in place by their governments, but the answer to unhappiness with government policy is not to take up arms and try and overthrow the state through violence and chaos against combatants and non-combatants alike, but to use whatever peaceful means the system offers to affect change.

The latter is what the lawyers did (though they have of late put themselves to shame with their own lawless acts) as did the media and as did the political parties led by Nawaz and BB (with Nawaz, though I do not care for him, actually doing so in a honorable and independent fashion). The Taliban should have organized as a political movement against the policies of Musharraf. Given the amount of respect they enjoyed (rightfully or not, because of their 'legend' in Pakistan) they would have been a significant political force in several Pashtun areas.

They instead chose a criminal path, and a path of confrontation with the State, so they are still to blame for all the violence and instability that followed.

You agree that they were attacked by the G.O.P so their uptake of arms was an act of self defense.They see the fight against America as being a religious obligation so in essence the G.O.P were seeking to prevent them from carrying out this obligation.Yes you will argue that they shouldn't do it from Pakistani territory, but surely the G.O.P could have sought to prevent them from launching cross border attacks without resorting to an all out conflict. No?

We are a nation, we have a State, we have a government (currently democratically elected and may it remain so) - as citizens we MUST owe allegiance to the State and abide by its constitution and policies over all else. Yes, you can attempt to amend the constitution to make it 'more Islamic' or 'less Islamic', and get 'your people' into power to enact the policies you prefer, but you must do so through the established systems and processes. At the end of the day there is no room for Mullahs, nationalist rabble-rousers and other demagogues to take the law into their own hands and act against the state.

 

[Durran3]

Great nailing on the head mate

The simple fact is that if you have a grudge against the state, there are more civilized ways and means to get your message across both politcally and legally rather than jeopardizing the national security of the country as well as harming its citizens. You simply can not come down here all guns blazing and hold a nation hostage, if you want to govern you have to earn it, not take it by force and if you even try to the Government has every right to protect its citizens and its politlcal system via using brute force.

 

[echo 1]

My question is that where were these guys when the terroists took over and killed innosent police recruits. Or the bombing that took place in chuckwal. Where was this lady when women in SWAT, and other tribal regions were being forced to marry against their will to torrists while their parents were forced to comply or did die defending thier childern. And what about human trafficing that happened din these areas what then and why now

 

[muse]

Such reports seem highly motivated. It puts the armed forces in a situation they cannot possibly respond to. The police are investigating the issue however; it's reasonable that extremist taliban movement is taking revenge on those of it's membership who switched side and helped the army clear the area. The mad dog talib now seem hell bent on taking their revenge on those who were once part of their militia.

There is also a strong possiblity that this police matter is being used as a political tool by those who want to bring pressure to bear on the government and in particular, on the army - I think you can guess who that crowd may be.

 

[waraich66]

Great nailing on the head mate

The simple fact is that if you have a grudge against the state, there are more civilized ways and means to get your message across both politcally and legally rather than jeopardizing the national security of the country as well as harming its citizens. You simply can not come down here all guns blazing and hold a nation hostage, if you want to govern you have to earn it, not take it by force and if you even try to the Government has every right to protect its citizens and its politlcal system via using brute force.

Government dont have right to kill innocient citizens ?

How much money GOP had given to innocient citizen killed in drone attacks?

Miltery action is indication of government failure or not?

 

[waraich66]

My question is that where were these guys when the terroists took over and killed innosent police recruits. Or the bombing that took place in chuckwal. Where was this lady when women in SWAT, and other tribal regions were being forced to marry against their will to torrists while their parents were forced to comply or did die defending thier childern. And what about human trafficing that happened din these areas what then and why now

Is there any militancy in Pakistan befor US attacks in Afghanistan?

 

[waraich66]

The US invasion and the GoP's support for that invasion, including the deployment of troops to attempt to halt cross border Taliban attacks and movement, was responsible for the Taliban uprising in Pakistan, BUT, that does not mean that the Taliban uprising itself was justified.

If you send police squads into a lawless area to try and clamp down on crime, and the criminals decide to band together and recruit even more locals into their gangs and start attacks against the entire state for sending in the police, you don't blame the government for deploying the police and call the criminals 'heroes' and 'defenders of their territory'.

The Taliban and the tribes that supported them should have stood down when the Army was deployed and the State of Pakistan took a particular position in the WoT. I said in another thread, there is no country in the world where people are happy with every single policy put in place by their governments, but the answer to unhappiness with government policy is not to take up arms and try and overthrow the state through violence and chaos against combatants and non-combatants alike, but to use whatever peaceful means the system offers to affect change.

The latter is what the lawyers did (though they have of late put themselves to shame with their own lawless acts) as did the media and as did the political parties led by Nawaz and BB (with Nawaz, though I do not care for him, actually doing so in a honorable and independent fashion). The Taliban should have organized as a political movement against the policies of Musharraf. Given the amount of respect they enjoyed (rightfully or not, because of their 'legend' in Pakistan) they would have been a significant political force in several Pashtun areas.

They instead chose a criminal path, and a path of confrontation with the State, so they are still to blame for all the violence and instability that followed.



We are a nation, we have a State, we have a government (currently democratically elected and may it remain so) - as citizens we MUST owe allegiance to the State and abide by its constitution and policies over all else. Yes, you can attempt to amend the constitution to make it 'more Islamic' or 'less Islamic', and get 'your people' into power to enact the policies you prefer, but you must do so through the established systems and processes. At the end of the day there is no room for Mullahs, nationalist rabble-rousers and other demagogues to take the law into their own hands and act against the state.

AM,

We know Masharaf was not elected ruler of Pakistan, he had made lot of agreement with US for support which can be challenged in Supreme court, that is reason for increase of militancy in Pakistan.

Musharaf had taken such nasty decisions that still our elected assembly could not revert them.

One wrong decision of ruler may cause series of wrong doing by general public.For national security decsion national security council is right body .

 

[waraich66]

It seems the initial goal of the TTP was to assist in the Jihad against America in neighboring Afghanistan.

If they are sincere with Islam why dont they try to make deal with all waring faction of Afghanistan and use their power for restoration of peace instead of distruction inside Pakistan?

If the TTP have intentionally targeted civilians then I condemn such barbaric and anti Islamic actions.
There is a difference in intentional targeting of civilians, and civilians being killed unintentionally as a result of resistance operations. With regard to martyrdom operations then the Ulema have differed over this masala, there is much detail related to the ruling on this.

Islam dont allow suiciodel attacks and killing of civilian even unintentionally.

I think they would if the government of Pakistan would allow them to do so.

Why they are waiting for Pakistan government decision ,when they considered it unislamic?

The TTP are a reaction to G.O.P support for the American crusade.

There are lot of US bases inside Pakistan but TTP not even try to target them it means TTP has only one target to destablize Pakistan.

 

[Conscientious objector]

If they are sincere with Islam why dont they try to make deal with all waring faction of Afghanistan and use their power for restoration of peace instead of distruction inside Pakistan?

I don't quite understand what your getting at here.How can you expect the TTP to work for peace inside Pakistan when they are being hunted and killed by the G.O.P ? Their objective was not initially to destabilise Pakistan, it was only after the G.O.P repeatedly attacked them at the behest of the americans that they took up arms against the G.O.P in self defense.In order for peace to prevail the one who is the aggressor needs to cease all hostilities before any talk of peace.The onus is on the G.O.P not the TTP.

Islam dont allow suiciodel attacks and killing of civilian even unintentionally.

Again the ruling on martyrdom operations is a matter of ikhtilaf amongst the ulema and obviously the death of non combatants is regrettable.Unintentional means just that without intention.Utmost care needs to be taken to avoid civilian casualties.

Why they are waiting for Pakistan government decision ,when they considered it unislamic?

They are not waiting for their decision they are fighting against them, if you come to my house and attempt to stop me from performing my salah I will have to resist you if I can. I can only perform my obligation once you leave me to carry it out. This is the reason they are not fighting america because the G.O.P will not allow them to do so and that is why the G.O.P is considered the enemy and that is why they are fighting the G.O.P.

There are lot of US bases inside Pakistan but TTP not even try to target them it means TTP has only one target to destablize Pakistan.

Wrong it doesn't mean that at all, the TTP have repeatedly targeted supply convoys on route to Afghanistan amongst other american interests.The G.O.P has made itself a target for the mujahideen by acting as a proxy agent on behalf of america.Attacking the G.O.P and its military is an attack on the crusader forces of america.

 

[S-2]

"Attacking the G.O.P and its military is an attack on the crusader forces of america."

And there you have it.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is an irhabist. The words are clear. Unless the GoP turns its weapons and proxy warriors loose on the CRUSADERS you will be the righteous targets of these men and their mouthpieces.

Should C.O. feel his religious rights abridged and take up arms against the state in defense of such, he and his kind should be shot like curs for threatening the public safety.

For his comments here, he should be banned. He is your enemy and the above comment makes clear which side of the fence he stands on.

OTOH, America will surely become your enemy if this is the view that your citizens decide to embrace. Do so bravely and proudly, if so. Make clear your hatred of all things America and be prepared to give unremitting war to our nation that we may have no doubt as to our enemies.

 

[waraich66]

I don't quite understand what your getting at here.How can you expect the TTP to work for peace inside Pakistan when they are being hunted and killed by the G.O.P ? Their objective was not initially to destabilise Pakistan, it was only after the G.O.P repeatedly attacked them at the behest of the americans that they took up arms against the G.O.P in self defense.In order for peace to prevail the one who is the aggressor needs to cease all hostilities before any talk of peace.The onus is on the G.O.P not the TTP.



Again the ruling on martyrdom operations is a matter of ikhtilaf amongst the ulema and obviously the death of non combatants is regrettable.Unintentional means just that without intention.Utmost care needs to be taken to avoid civilian casualties.



They are not waiting for their decision they are fighting against them, if you come to my house and attempt to stop me from performing my salah I will have to resist you if I can. I can only perform my obligation once you leave me to carry it out. This is the reason they are not fighting america because the G.O.P will not allow them to do so and that is why the G.O.P is considered the enemy and that is why they are fighting the G.O.P.



Wrong it doesn't mean that at all, the TTP have repeatedly targeted supply convoys on route to Afghanistan amongst other american interests.The G.O.P has made itself a target for the mujahideen by acting as a proxy agent on behalf of america.Attacking the G.O.P and its military is an attack on the crusader forces of america.

If US defeated in Afghanistan its means GOP supporting US will also defeated then its mean shariah will be implemented in both countries.

But majority of Pakistani dont want Shariah then what will be solution for peace?

 

[HAIDER]

Well, army knows ground reality (sorry to say,majority of us are keyboard warrior). I can't criticize Pak army,cuz they lost their comrades. So, they won't let the thing cool down easily. Comrade is comrade , if he is Pashtun,punjabi,sindhi or baluchi. If Taliban slaughter few commandos who try to establish peace, then they should ready to take lead too.
In some cases Elite squad drop Taliban commanders from Helos. Thats what they really deserve. Lesson to learn those who want to support these militants, and plus hidden taliban militants view their commander is free falling from sky.....its best way to kill the terror with terror...
And to hell with judicial or non judicial, when they do suicide bombing or any other act , do they bring with them legal court order ?.....