'Death Squads' in Swat?

[Y2A]

HEIL our SS squads they deserve it... next target Asam Jhangir

Terrible comment to say the least regardless of the circumstances in which such incident occurred, it could be an isolated event where troops lost their cool when they found the responsible people of their fellows deaths, cheering such act childishly is not a sane reaction, some buddy seems to be watching too much movies in which when ever a "bad guy" got killed person feels joy of accomplishment.

Pak army is an institution of disciplined bunch of people not a wreck less mafia, if some buddy has done some thing bad and being captured then he need to be trial, executing those on sight to make a example out of them is nothing more then a barbaric act of stone age which still seems very popular among the MASS, its not a gang war, one need to stay on the high moral ground, the so called Taliban were also doing the same when they were in control so scene has not changed much just the actors are being replaced with better performers.

 

[TaimiKhan]

I don't understand, there have been incidents of mass graves or hangings of taliban militants or their sympathizers, and the blame is just on army ??

Haven't the lamp post hanging of militants started after the people started returning to their homes, so couldn't that be the revenge by the local people for their suffering ??

Police is back, they suffered terribly by the hands of taliban, a lot of them got killed, can't they be the ones taking revenge for their suffering ??

The mass graves as many said could be the ones who were killed during the air campaign or artillery strikes, and buried hurriedly.

Or the mass graves can be of the taliban forced in to fighting, who would be thinking to desert & may have been killed by the hardcore talibans.

Army has hundreds of captured taliban, so if Army had been doing it, they wouldn't be announcing the figures of captured militants as later on reconciliation can be done, and we would have been seeing dozens of bodies each day, not one or two incidents once in a while.

In my opinion, these are revenge killings by the local people, as they are very well aware who were the taliban & who sided with them & may be the police is involved to take revenge for the brutality their fellow comrades faced when their throats were slit.

 

[Slides]

Exactly right tamikhan. Please read below. Do you all think pakhtuns who's relatives in the police, FC and army were butchered will not take revenge now?

New wave of revenge killing feared in Swat
New wave of revenge killing feared in Swat



Tuesday, August 25, 2009
By Ikram Hoti

ISLAMABAD: Countless young men along the highways from Mansehra to Battagram and from Sakhakot to Shangla in the NWFP are living in the fear of being attacked and thrown in the woods, fields or on the winding streets in villages and towns. More than 200 corpses have already been found along these highways by mid-August following the fall of Swat, Shangla and Buner to security forces in July last.

The News has found out that anti-Taliban Lashkars, the resurgent cousins’ groups acting on Pakhtun tribal vengeance and the Taliban targeting the ‘traitors that helped security forces are involved in a new war of retribution. While security forces enjoy the windfall gains in relative escape from being targeted in this situation, the entire build-up indicates that ‘settling scores’ the three sides are not just engaged in this war but also threaten to launch a new resurgence.

Signs of this new resurgence are crystallising in and around the towns of Mardan and the Frontier capital of Peshawar. This build-up, evident from internecine attacks in the region especially in Peshawar, the latest being the Momin Colony suicide attack leaving three dead and 11 injured, is more intimidating than the previous trend wherein the Taliban attacked the police and the security forces.

Regrouping in the vast region of Malakand Agency, around Charsadda, Mardan, Nowshera and Peshawar, these Taliban threaten to launch attacks on Lashkars, elders and the families that help the security forces and the police, and elders that help in capturing the Taliban for turning them over to the army and police. “They even target those suspected of such activities or in any manner maintaining contacts with such suspects,” said Syed Kamal Shah, former NWFP health minister and convener of Pakhtun Aman Lashkar.

When asked to explain the activity of “newly emerging cousins’ groups, he said: “these are young men who happen to be brothers and cousins of the security personnel and the young locals targeted by the Taliban either in murderous arrogance or in order to perpetrate their disruptive activity in the region”.

He added that the trigger-happy among those in the Taliban ranks who were freshly drafted by the terrorist organisation had their way wherever they were purportedly assigned tasks in Swat, Dir, Buner and the rest of Malakand. “They were so ruthless that they conducted mock trials under ‘Islamic courts’ and executed death punishments with little regard for the Pakhtun vengeance code that normally scares such perpetrators off.”

Jehandad, an elder from Battagram who lost his nephew in the Taliban attack on the highway connecting Shangla to Battagram on the Karakoram Highway, said: “I cannot help telling my sons to avenge my nephew. How can a Pakhtun stay away from revenge killing when there is a chance, which the victory of security forces has offered us by the grace of Almighty Allah?”

Dost Mohammad, another elder from Kalam said: “I would not stop my sons from attacking these accomplices of Taliban, who killed three of my nephews and left their widows and kids to mourn them for the rest of their lives.”

 

[S-2]

"How can a Pakhtun stay away from revenge killing when there is a chance, which the victory of security forces has offered us by the grace of Almighty Allah?”

Is vendetta a legal recourse? I'm sure it isn't. Last I read the STATE holds the monopoly on violence and it is for that reason, paramount above all others as a measure of internal security, that this war is being waged.

Regardless of the actions by the taliban, the proper recourse remains their arrest, trial, and (if convicted) imprisonment and/or execution...

...by the STATE.

I've long been an opponent of tribal custom and will always be opposed to extra-judicial killings by either elements within the gov't or tribes taking vengeance.

Efforts by the GoP to enlist the military assistance of tribal lashkars will not promote the regional security desired by all. It will, instead, open a Pandora's box of evils that you should be historically well aware of by now.

I pray your gov't is in no way culpable to these killings. I pray that the GoP pursues these killers with the same OR MORE diligence as they currently do with the "bad" taliban.

You've criticized America about Guantanamo, Bagram, and Abu Ghraib. This is worse-more insidious, and, ultimately, an endemic condition that's bad enough already to the state's writ and will be further reinforced by a passive government position on these murders.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Just would like to clarify, the above mentioned attack in Momen Town in Peshawar was due to the war going on between two rival groups in Khyber Agency, Laskhar-e-Islam & Ansar Ul Islam, both which as per official accounts don't have links with taliban, they are fighting the turf war.

On the other hand, we will be seeing more of these bodies surfacing here & there, which if things remain the way they are, would mostly be of the taliban & its sympathizers. This is the reason we now hear news of more & more militants giving up & surrendering to the security forces as they know the people will not let them live, they do think they have a chance to live by giving up to the army. Now the militants disguised in the IDPs after going back are giving themselves too, just due to this fear of getting killed by people who know them.

 

[The Patriot]

Just would like to clarify, the above mentioned attack in Momen Town in Peshawar was due to the war going on between two rival groups in Khyber Agency, Laskhar-e-Islam & Ansar Ul Islam, both which as per official accounts don't have links with taliban, they are fighting the turf war.

On the other hand, we will be seeing more of these bodies surfacing here & there, which if things remain the way they are, would mostly be of the taliban & its sympathizers. This is the reason we now hear news of more & more militants giving up & surrendering to the security forces as they know the people will not let them live, they do think they have a chance to live by giving up to the army. Now the militants disguised in the IDPs after going back are giving themselves too, just due to this fear of getting killed by people who know them.

I couldnt agree more. i have heard some people even say they would kill any taliban as they do not recognize who killed their relatives so killing any of the taliban would settle scores for them.

 

[TaimiKhan]

I couldnt agree more. i have heard some people even say they would kill any taliban as they do not recognize who killed their relatives so killing any of the taliban would settle scores for them.

That includes me too , as i had a promise to myself that if God forbid any harm comes to any of my family from such kind of taliban, i will kill anyone i find on the spot. To tell you the truth whenever we heard the bang of a bomb going of nearby or when a rocket zooms over our heads, you get sooooooooooooooooooo much angry and wishes to kill any of these you find. Its natural instinct. But do hope we don't have to see a day like that.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The taliban must face their demons---the punishment that that they saw fit for anyone who disagreed with them---they will be paid back in the same coin---that is the law of the land.

We show compassion and love for other human beings who act likewise. What the taliban have sowed is what they are going to reap.

As far as Asma Jehangir goes----she has made a choice----to be anti pak army---I never heard of any statements coming from her condemniong the taliban executing ssg's or the beheadings ofother soldiers----now suddenly she seems to have found new religion---a new god.

 

[The Patriot]

That includes me too , as i had a promise to myself that if God forbid any harm comes to any of my family from such kind of taliban, i will kill anyone i find on the spot. To tell you the truth whenever we heard the bang of a bomb going of nearby or when a rocket zooms over our heads, you get sooooooooooooooooooo much angry and wishes to kill any of these you find. Its natural instinct. But do hope we don't have to see a day like that.

There is not only blood feud to settle. Taliban also did forced nikah (Rape) with locals in Swat and also in other agencies. During Swat operation we hosted some 6 families in our hujra they told us this. One guy guy told me that Taliban in Buner picked up women for cooking purposes and God knows what happened to them. one of the family that came to our area before operation fled the area only because the man was told to give his daughters into nikah with Taliban or prepare for consequences. So he fled his home in the night along with his family.
Rape has never occured in conflicts and wars in Pashtun areas because Pashtuns give high respect to women. It can also be evident but the fact that there are almost zero rapes committed in Pashtun areas and one would hardly find any news report in media. But for the first time in history this is happening under the Taliban. Many people have fled Taliban areas only to save their honor. I have many stories told to me by the victims of the rapes committed by Taliban. But taliban did it under the name of Islam.

 

[The Patriot]

Hi,

The taliban must face their demons---the punishment that that they saw fit for anyone who disagreed with them---they will be paid back in the same coin---that is the law of the land.

We show compassion and love for other human beings who act likewise. What the taliban have sowed is what they are going to reap.

As far as Asma Jehangir goes----she has made a choice----to be anti pak army---I never heard of any statements coming from her condemniong the taliban executing ssg's or the beheadings ofother soldiers----now suddenly she seems to have found new religion---a new god.

She would make noise on anything that is in Pakistan's interests. She always try to malign Pakistan and its forces. That's her agenda. If anybody has any doubt about it they should check her all past statements and activities.

 

[TaimiKhan]

There is not only blood feud to settle. Taliban also did forced nikah (Rape) with locals in Swat and also in other agencies. During Swat operation we hosted some 6 families in our hujra they told us this. One guy guy told me that Taliban in Buner picked up women for cooking purposes and God knows what happened to them. one of the family that came to our area before operation fled the area only because the man was told to give his daughters into nikah with Taliban or prepare for consequences. So he fled his home in the night along with his family.
Rape has never occured in conflicts and wars in Pashtun areas because Pashtuns give high respect to women. It can also be evident but the fact that there are almost zero rapes committed in Pashtun areas and one would hardly find any news report in media. But for the first time in history this is happening under the Taliban. Many people have fled Taliban areas only to save their honor. I have many stories told to me by the victims of the rapes committed by Taliban. But taliban did it under the name of Islam.

Yes nearly all stories are true, i have heard first hand stories, worst then these. If you remember when the operation had started the Dawn News had told about a family who were rescued by the army when in live firing one of the girl ran toward the army side to ask for help as her father had been shot by taliban for refusing to give up his daughters. 3 days ago on some urdu news channel a captured militant in swat had been shown who had confessed to have slaughtered 7 or 8 people in swat, that guy told how they would target young girls and how they would follow the girls in their vehicles going from school to homes and then kidnap them.
One of by fellow colleague is from that area, he told me that when these taliban came to buner, his village was captured by taliban and they told each family to give one boy less then ten years old or else 25000 rs each month. Similarly there are many stories of rape and even rape with women they would marry by other taliban comrades.

Unfortunately everything in Pakistan is done in the name of Islam, & shamefully we have no Islamic country.

 

[The Patriot]

Yes nearly all stories are true, i have heard first hand stories, worst then these. If you remember when the operation had started the Dawn News had told about a family who were rescued by the army when in live firing one of the girl ran toward the army side to ask for help as her father had been shot by taliban for refusing to give up his daughters. 3 days ago on some urdu news channel a captured militant in swat had been shown who had confessed to have slaughtered 7 or 8 people in swat, that guy told how they would target young girls and how they would follow the girls in their vehicles going from school to homes and then kidnap them.
One of by fellow colleague is from that area, he told me that when these taliban came to buner, his village was captured by taliban and they told each family to give one boy less then ten years old or else 25000 rs each month. Similarly there are many stories of rape and even rape with women they would marry by other taliban comrades.

Unfortunately everything in Pakistan is done in the name of Islam, & shamefully we have no Islamic country.

Your stories are absolutely correct as i am told the same stories by different people who were brutalized by Taliban. Let me share with you another story from Wana. One of my friend was chief of his clan in Wana and he told me many such stories. He said locals had given their girls in marriage to Uzbek militants. it was the time when uzbeks were not driven out of Wana. one night a woman managed to flee from her uzbek husband almost naked. she told her family that she had not one husband but every night several men would come and rape her. this was also one of the reasons that angered the locals against Uzbeks. uzbeks also had blackmailed the locals clans or their chiefs as they had made videos where local taliban would order execution. These tapes were used to blackmail them later and they became hostage to them because they feared revenge from other tribes.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Your stories are absolutely correct as i am told the same stories by different people who were brutalized by Taliban. Let me share with you another story from Wana. One of my friend was chief of his clan in Wana and he told me many such stories. He said locals had given their girls in marriage to Uzbek militants. it was the time when uzbeks were not driven out of Wana. one night a woman managed to flee from her uzbek husband almost naked. she told her family that she had not one husband but every night several men would come and rape her. this was also one of the reasons that angered the locals against Uzbeks. uzbeks also had blackmailed the locals clans or their chiefs as they had made videos where local taliban would order execution. These tapes were used to blackmail them later and they became hostage to them because they feared revenge from other tribes.

Yes this is what i was talking about but couldn't tell here as thought to be out of the norms. Many such stories of brutality. I wish they get what they deserves in this world and certainly in the after one.

 

[All-Green]

What conclusive proof is there asides from the accusation of Asma Jahangir who has always tried to become famous by acting in this fashion?
I think we should rename the thread as Asma Jahangir accuses security forces of extra judicial killings of Taliban
At least the sensationalism of the yellow journalists should not seep into the thread title...

I may sound cold hearted here but we have a man complaining that his brother who belonged to Taliban (no shame in admitting what his brother was part of) was taken and shot.
Now tell me honestly, do you want to completely trust this fifth column support of TTP?
Such people will be there raising hue and cry about killings whereas most likely their beloved TTP kin would have been killed in a genuine encounter...unless of course some locals captured them, in that case it will not be simple matter to resolve.
Anyways, let the champion Human Rights lawyer go to court instead and not bombard Army for something they may not be a part of.

These things will certainly happen without the support of Army and no matter what we claim as ethical or lawful, this was always expected...still there is a lot to be done and there has not been too much time gone by after the launch of the offensive so i again say, let the dust settle down!

On another note this is a wee bit different from a one off terrorist incident, no matter what the magnitude
S-2, you have brought the entire chain of US war crimes and drawn a parallel to SWAT but there is a much more complicated scenario here than what US encountered...Iraqis were not masterminds of 9-11 so what hatred was harbored against them is still not understandable to me.
USA was a victim of a terrorist incident of a great magnitude and my heart goes out to the victims, however those who were directly responsible were killed in the attack whereas the masterminds were alive....US went for the masterminds but the people of Iraq were not the perpetrators of 9-11 and so any extra judicial killing of Iraqi does not compare to SWAT and the killing of a TTP member.

We have to look at this scenario more closely.
In this case the TTP was certainly a terrorist outfit which had been directly and openly bleeding SWAT and the tribal areas since a good number of years.
In this case there had been a constant reign of terror for years and the terrorists remained alive and were freely killing and butchering all elders, rivals, opponents in broad daylight in the public squares.
Sure they held their trials as well, of 1 minute in which a rascal condemned an innocent man to be butchered for treachery, heresy etc.
The Taliban were not holy in any way and all their actions were to gain power but of course they resorted to terrorism on an unprecedented scale to absolutely flatten any notion of self respect and freedom that the entire population may have had.
This cannot be compared to 9-11 in terms of revenge because the perpetrators and executors and all the elements of TTP were alive for a good couple of years while constantly committing terrorism on the innocents and had become well known and hated faces to the people whose loved ones were butchered like animals for years...moreover many of these rascals had settled in these areas and also there were locals who were recruited by these scoundrels...

This is a very different case and should be treated as such, i do not think that if same thing had happened in any other country the masses would have done anything different.

Do i back these actions, no i do not...however to me the TTP has committed a horrible and absolutely brutal mass murdering act and they shall have to pay in blood at the hand of the people till things become as they were a decade ago.
The GOP and the law enforcement agencies are re establishing control and things will definitely settle down...

Raising alarm at this time in support of TTP (even in the news clipping no body is denying the dead were not militants) is quite puzzling...is it not the same TTP that has just recently been condemned by the entire nation to be eliminated (kill and not capture was the mandate given to Army by GOP and the nation) for their dastardly acts???

Finding a few of their dead comrades does not merit such attention especially since there are skirmishes that have been going on as part of cleanup.

I believe this self proclaimed champion of Human Rights is playing into TTP hands...still let her take the proof to the courts...let us see how her words are weighed in the court of law.

 

[The Patriot]

What conclusive proof is there asides from the accusation of Asma Jahangir who has always tried to become famous by acting in this fashion?
I think we should rename the thread as Asma Jahangir accuses security forces of extra judicial killings of Taliban
At least the sensationalism of the yellow journalists should not seep into the thread title...

I may sound cold hearted here but we have a man complaining that his brother who belonged to Taliban (no shame in admitting what his brother was part of) was taken and shot.
Now tell me honestly, do you want to completely trust this fifth column support of TTP?
Such people will be there raising hue and cry about killings whereas most likely their beloved TTP kin would have been killed in a genuine encounter...unless of course some locals captured them, in that case it will not be simple matter to resolve.
Anyways, let the champion Human Rights lawyer go to court instead and not bombard Army for something they may not be a part of.

These things will certainly happen without the support of Army and no matter what we claim as ethical or lawful, this was always expected...still there is a lot to be done and there has not been too much time gone by after the launch of the offensive so i again say, let the dust settle down!

On another note this is a wee bit different from a one off terrorist incident, no matter what the magnitude
S-2, you have brought the entire chain of US war crimes and drawn a parallel to SWAT but there is a much more complicated scenario here than what US encountered...Iraqis were not masterminds of 9-11 so what hatred was harbored against them is still not understandable to me.
USA was a victim of a terrorist incident of a great magnitude and my heart goes out to the victims, however those who were directly responsible were killed in the attack whereas the masterminds were alive....US went for the masterminds but the people of Iraq were not the perpetrators of 9-11 and so any extra judicial killing of Iraqi does not compare to SWAT and the killing of a TTP member.

We have to look at this scenario more closely.
In this case the TTP was certainly a terrorist outfit which had been directly and openly bleeding SWAT and the tribal areas since a good number of years.
In this case there had been a constant reign of terror for years and the terrorists remained alive and were freely killing and butchering all elders, rivals, opponents in broad daylight in the public squares.
Sure they held their trials as well, of 1 minute in which a rascal condemned an innocent man to be butchered for treachery, heresy etc.
The Taliban were not holy in any way and all their actions were to gain power but of course they resorted to terrorism on an unprecedented scale to absolutely flatten any notion of self respect and freedom that the entire population may have had.
This cannot be compared to 9-11 in terms of revenge because the perpetrators and executors and all the elements of TTP were alive for a good couple of years while constantly committing terrorism on the innocents and had become well known and hated faces to the people whose loved ones were butchered like animals for years...moreover many of these rascals had settled in these areas and also there were locals who were recruited by these scoundrels...

This is a very different case and should be treated as such, i do not think that if same thing had happened in any other country the masses would have done anything different.

Do i back these actions, no i do not...however to me the TTP has committed a horrible and absolutely brutal mass murdering act and they shall have to pay in blood at the hand of the people till things become as they were a decade ago.
The GOP and the law enforcement agencies are re establishing control and things will definitely settle down...

Raising alarm at this time in support of TTP (even in the news clipping no body is denying the dead were not militants) is quite puzzling...is it not the same TTP that has just recently been condemned by the entire nation to be eliminated (kill and not capture was the mandate given to Army by GOP and the nation) for their dastardly acts.

Finding a few of their dead comrades does not merit such attention especially since there are skirmishes that have been going on as part of cleanup.

I believe this self proclaimed champion of Human Rights is playing into TTP hands...still let her take the proof to the courts...let us see how her words are weighed in the court of law.

how would her foreigner paymasters pay her when she doesnt raise a hell in Pakistan. she is simply doing her job.