Deal to buy 36 Rafale jets runs into trouble; India & France struggle to agree on sales terms: Sourc

[Sarjen29]

there are"some" strings attached in every US wepons that comes owt of US of A but yamricans onli pin prikk u in there usage when you try to use them for things which in some way go against US interests but today USA needs india much much more than we need them .... rest keep speculating

i don't think so there's any strings in p-8, or the us made transport planes, but i'll not rule out Apache or any fighters

 

[GURU DUTT]

i don't think so there's any strings in p-8, or the us made transport planes, but i'll not rule out Apache or any fighters

see we even use US made engines on LCA and for its next block USA can choke us there if they want but did they ... ever wondered why

its not the COLD WAR we are living in right now and india of today is not what india was in 1970s or 1980s or even 1990s and same goes for owr economy , world stature and soft power and markets we have and on each count USA needs india as we are the onli nation who can counterwieght china in future so will USA be concerened about indian usage of its wepons as USA knows who are indias immidiate & potential enemies + unlike owr potential enemies we dont reverse ingeenear US/Russian or israeli or french wepons ...... so take it in writing USA is not going to pull strings if we somehow go for US fighter jets for IAF

 

[Zarvan]

France is not the issue you would have same problems with every one if you kept this attitude.

 

[GURU DUTT]

France is not the issue you would have same problems with every one if you kept this attitude.

but why you so concerrned about india delaying its fighter jet deal when you know the same wepon system is going to be used against your nation

now what is that attitude of you sirji

is that love for india and indian tax payers money and your mulk dushmani towards your own mother land

 

[Immanuel]

why EF if getting TOT to speed up owr AMCA programme then why not buy yamrican F/A-18 E/F advanced super hornets as we have engine comminality + no matter how good frenchies radar or spectra suite are they cant beat the AESA based radar/EWsuite & other elertoniks and wepons pakage of F/A-18 E/F and is yamricans want they can deliver us 3 fullsquads of them in a single year

For the longest time way before the MRCA trials ever began I understood that the Super Hornet was always the best fit for the IAF, the orders could be full-filled easily, the aircraft was always reasonably priced, the Super Hornet International on offer was great, the sensors are top notch, the USN funded upgrades promised to keep it relevant beyond 2030. Its ability to deploy a host of reasonably priced weapons as well as its reliability proven over years of combat is something that would have been ideal for the IAF. They would have saved a few of billions in engine commonality alone with the LCA mk-2 over the SH's and LCA's life time. Also, the SH has among the lowest operational costs for a fighter in its class, its operational costs are lower than the Rafale and EF. Even with partial TOT, this was always a better deal than the EF/Rafale which come with very expensive weapons packages and can cost up to 40% more in unit costs alone. AFAIK the SH's only problem was its performance at LEH which could have been easily fixed with certain changes to the engine.

Even if we order these by end 2016 in typical FMS fashion with significant offsets, the production rate being 40 aircraft annually, we can easily have 80 aircraft delivered by 2020. If such an order takes place, the only thing needed is to make sure is to have the Super Hornet International F414 EPE, Large panel displays, new MAWS, new IRST, enclosed weapon pods, optional strap-on CFTs. I am sure such an order would also bring the US/ India closer and the US would stop bitching when it comes to future joint ventures including tech transfers for other projects. We can order 60 Russian built PAKFA while organizing make in India of another 140 PAKFA once MKI deliveries are done.

During the MRCA trials, the IAF chief maintained, the US always had the upper hand In avionics and weapons being very impressed with SH's electronics.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VhQJQ2CEM...flefoI8/s1600/F18-Advanced-Super-Hornet-3.png

http://55ca7cd0-f8ac-0132-1185-7056...sanet/site/upload/news_image/2011/09/3545.jpg

 

[GURU DUTT]

For the longest time way before the MRCA trials ever began I understood that the Super Hornet was always the best fit for the IAF, the orders could be full-filled easily, the aircraft was always reasonably priced, the Super Hornet International on offer was great, the sensors are top notch, the USN funded upgrades promised to keep it relevant beyond 2030. Its ability to deploy a host of reasonably priced weapons as well as its reliability proven over years of combat is something that would have been ideal for the IAF. They would have saved a few of billions in engine commonality alone with the LCA mk-2 over the SH's and LCA's life time. Also, the SH has among the lowest operational costs for a fighter in its class, its operational costs are lower than the Rafale and EF. Even with partial TOT, this was always a better deal than the EF/Rafale which come with very expensive weapons packages and can cost up to 40% more in unit costs alone. AFAIK the SH's only problem was its performance at LEH which could have been easily fixed with certain changes to the engine.

Even if we order these by end 2016 in typical FMS fashion with significant offsets, the production rate being 40 aircraft annually, we can easily have 80 aircraft delivered by 2020. If such an order takes place, the only thing needed is to make sure is to have the Super Hornet International F414 EPE, Large panel displays, new MAWS, new IRST, enclosed weapon pods, optional strap-on CFTs. I am sure such an order would also bring the US/ India closer and the US would stop bitching when it comes to future joint ventures including tech transfers for other projects. We can order 60 Russian built PAKFA while organizing make in India of another 140 PAKFA once MKI deliveries are done.

During the MRCA trials, the IAF chief maintained, the US always had the upper hand In avionics and weapons being very impressed with SH's electronics.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VhQJQ2CEM...flefoI8/s1600/F18-Advanced-Super-Hornet-3.png

http://55ca7cd0-f8ac-0132-1185-7056...sanet/site/upload/news_image/2011/09/3545.jpg

in short Rafale is sexy while F/A-18 E/F advanced super hornet in FIT

and during a war situation bieng sexy is OK but bieng FIT is better

 

[Immanuel]

Indeed it is sad to see IAF/MOD being played by the snakes at Dassault, their marketing lies during the early stages were so easy to see through, they failed to deliver on everything they promised including tot, costs.

 

[C130]

126 fighters
100=F-18 Advance Super Hornet
26=F-18 Growlers

60 to 70 million a piece

ToT on engine and some other stuff that the government would allow

Boeing does 50% offset into it's business in building Boeing passenger planes in India


Boeing could partner with HAL on Tejas


planes are cheaper than Europeans the weapons are cheaper the maintenance and flying cost i think is lower than the Europeans and significantly less than the Russians.

but muh strings muh sanctions

 

[surya kiran]

126 fighters
100=F-18 Advance Super Hornet
26=F-18 Growlers

60 to 70 million a piece

ToT on engine and some other stuff that the government would allow

Boeing does 50% offset into it's business in building Boeing passenger planes in India


Boeing could partner with HAL on Tejas


planes are cheaper than Europeans the weapons are cheaper the maintenance and flying cost i think is lower than the Europeans and significantly less than the Russians.

but muh strings muh sanctions

There are no conflicts of interest with the Americans, as far as strategic objectives go. It would have made a lot of sense to get the F-18 in and ask for Block III with conformal tanks. Nobody is going to give us AESA know-how. But, it would make sense to tell Boeing to move the line to India and then work with Boeing towards a stealthier Silent Hornet. But then, if wishes were......

 

[slapshot]

F the French... Go for EF then

Now fanboys will start posting Images of EF and telling us stories of another mother of all deals

France is not the issue you would have same problems with every one if you kept this attitude.

India is a worst buyer. We knew this all along that in the end they will end up buying Russian jets as always!

 

[Zarvan]

Now fanboys will start posting Images of EF and telling us stories of another mother of all deals


India is a worst buyer. We knew this all along that in the end they will end up buying Russian jets as always!

The issue is Indians go to a shop without checking their pocket and when they select a item and put their hand in pocket to get money they find nothing so instead of doing some real shopping they end up doing just window shopping. These deals are getting pathetically hilarious now.

 

[[Bregs]]

A lot. During Kargil war which took place in 1999 a pair of thermal socks would cost into many thousands of rupees because of panic buying.



Technology transfer is a regressive concept which should be abolished after a time frame.

A country which does not have the resources or the know-how seeks transfer of technology to study and understand how a certain model is build and operated. For every subsequent purchase if there is a demand for technology transfer then it shows India is woefully backward in defence industry.



Who is going to penalize them, for what and in which court?

arey bhai deal cancel kar do, and look for other alternatives as rafale too if deal signed today will not arrive in another 2 years or even more

 

[Immanuel]

The issue is Indians go to a shop without checking their pocket and when they select a item and put their hand in pocket to get money they find nothing so instead of doing some real shopping they end up doing just window shopping. These deals are getting pathetically hilarious now.

Well at least we forget to check our pocket, which can run deep, the average Pakistani mil deal are practically donations. When was the last time you paid for anything. As far as our deals are concerned its ok, they may get hilarious, we might order the Rafale or more MKI or another aircraft, regardless the outcome, Pak will only have increased problems. Because whether we get SH or EF or Rafale in combination with more Super MKI and PAKFA, the entire combo is far too much for PAF to handle.
You also forget those bastards at Dassault are also the reason for the massive cost escalation, cunts have been lying through their teeth since the beginning.

The current fleet line up IAF is already more than a headache to PAF.

 

[surya kiran]

The current fleet line up IAF is already more than a headache to PAF.

You mean the Indian Navy Air Arm.

 

[knight11]

No Both EF & Rafale are useless at this point. Just cancel this whole thing. Waste of time, just order 70 more Super MKI, keep the MKI line open till 2021, taking the total order book to 340 (40 of which can be for the SFC, remaining 300 for 15 squadrons).

In the mean time just order 60 direct purchase Russian built PAKFA to be delivered starting 2019-2020. After the final Super MKI are delivered in 2021, rejig/ re-tool the MKI line by 2023 to begin production of made in India PAKFA-MKI with over 140 to be made locally. This way we'll have better numbers available at 2020 i.e about 50-60 more Super MKI. If we go the Rafale route i.e. if deal is signed end of this or early next year will only result in deliveries starting 2018 with only a squadron of 20 being delivered by 2020. that's a 40 aircraft difference. Also if Russian built PAKFA ordered right away as being expected, we could easily have 1 squadron delivered by 2020. Adding a total of 70-80 cutting edge aircraft additionally by 2020. Super MKI will in almost all arenas be a better aircraft than both EF/Rafale. It will have better engines, new avionics, including a massive AESA, new OLS, new levels of sensor fusion.

Here is link which explains why we need raffale and why it cannot be replaced by MKI

Pakistan's New F-16s Can Beat India's Su-30s; Rafales Are The Counter | Page 9

126 fighters
100=F-18 Advance Super Hornet
26=F-18 Growlers

60 to 70 million a piece

ToT on engine and some other stuff that the government would allow

Boeing does 50% offset into it's business in building Boeing passenger planes in India


Boeing could partner with HAL on Tejas


planes are cheaper than Europeans the weapons are cheaper the maintenance and flying cost i think is lower than the Europeans and significantly less than the Russians.

but muh strings muh sanctions

Sorry Sir we need terain hugging, deep penetration, Omnirole fighter plane with no string attached and one more thing which can be used for the nuclear delivery platform in which Rafale is selected.

Sorry Hard Luck

Better next time

Please leave your contact number so that we can call you whenever there is any need.

Bye

see we even use US made engines on LCA and for its next block USA can choke us there if they want but did they ... ever wondered why

its not the COLD WAR we are living in right now and india of today is not what india was in 1970s or 1980s or even 1990s and same goes for owr economy , world stature and soft power and markets we have and on each count USA needs india as we are the onli nation who can counterwieght china in future so will USA be concerened about indian usage of its wepons as USA knows who are indias immidiate & potential enemies + unlike owr potential enemies we dont reverse ingeenear US/Russian or israeli or french wepons ...... so take it in writing USA is not going to pull strings if we somehow go for US fighter jets for IAF

Guru bhai its not 90's and keeping the stake of the GE in indian market in consideration its not easy even for the US to deny us from the engines. For fighter Jet engines only since each aircraft needs 3.5 engine in its life time there is a market for 1000 jet engine for 200 LCA and 200 AMCA in next 3 decades excluding the marine engines for Indian Navy.
We always have EJ200 option also from EuroJet Turbo GmbH which is working on TVC also.