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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

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Rafale and Eurofighter side by side in India

Commercial offerings of both companies would be very close to each other. Objective: to sell 126 fighter jets in New Delhi.

Manufacturers of both fighters still competing to equip the 126 aircraft the Indian Air Force (Air Force), Rafale ( Dassault Aviation ) and Eurofighter ( EADS , BAE Systems and Italy's Finmeccanica), engage one great commercial battle to reign in the Indian skies. According to several sources, offers of Dassault Aviation and the European consortium would be very close to each other. What is already a big surprise, the Rafale is generally much cheaper (10% to 15% on average) than the Eurofighter in previous tenders where they were competing one against the other.

The three industrial partners in the Eurofighter program would therefore have made great efforts on the price of the unit had to stay competitive with the Rafale aircraft much lighter. "They have accepted the monstrous sacrifices," says one industry. "The two manufacturers will see much clearer at the end of the week after a week of work and comparison of bids," said another industry sector interviewed by "The Tribune" (see below) . However, the Rafale custody, if the commercial offerings are really close, an advantage at the operational and technical. Testing of the Indian Air Force have placed in front of the Eurofighter...

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France Determined To Seal First Rafale Export

PARIS - France hopes to clinch a badly needed deal with the United Arab Emirates (UAE) for the sale of 60 Rafale fighter jets as part of a longstanding export drive, although an announcement was not expected at the Dubai Air Show, which opens Nov. 13.

The French Air Force will fly a Rafale fighter at the air show as part of the official support campaign. Gen. Jean-Paul Palomeros, the Air Force chief-of-staff, also was due to visit the exhibition, looking to maintain the close military-to-military ties seen as essential in winning a foreign arms contract.

An announcement of a deal was not expected as talks are still going on, and if the UAE were to reach an agreement, Abu Dhabi would want to make the announcement because that is where the UAE seat of government is located.

Domestic budget cuts mean the French government and industry must find foreign buyers for the Rafale, and the UAE is seen as the closest to a signing. Negotiations are continuing between UAE officials and France, although price has been a sticking point.


UAE officials had reached out to Lockheed Martin for information on the F-16 as an initial $10 billion tag for the Rafale caused price resistance.

Flying in the Libyan operations, the Rafale showed the 7.5-ton thrust of the Snecma M88 engine did not need to be uprated to 9 tons as previously requested by the UAE, according to French Defense Minister Gérard Longuet

That helped trim development costs on an eventual UAE purchase. The UAE has also asked for a more powerful radar.

The Rafale's operations in the Libya campaign are seen as a success story by the French military.

"Without hesitation, we're happy with the Rafale's capabilities," an Air Force spokesman said. "The multirole capabilities were tested and validated."


The availability rate averaged around 94 percent, an exceptionally high level for this generation of fighter aircraft, he said.

Besides delivering a range of munitions, as expected, the Air Force was pleased with the Reco NG reconnaissance pod, and the Rafale's ability to refuel inflight in night, day and bad weather conditions.


The Rafale deployed in all configurations - air superiority, ground support and reconnaissance, a spokesman for the chief of the Defense Staff said. The munitions included GBU glide bombs for close support, stand off with the Armement Air-Sol Modulaire (AASM), and long-range penetration with the Scalp cruise missile, he said.

The Rafale has flown for years in Afghanistan, but the range of missions was wider in Libya, where the aircraft showed its interoperability with the airborne warning and control systems aircraft.

France deployed nearly 20 Rafales in Libya, including flying 10 Navy fighters from the Charles de Gaulle carrier, and French Air Force units from air bases in France, Greece and Italy.

Any sale of the Rafale also opens up sales opportunities for missile maker MBDA, which would offer the long-range Meteor and anti-armor Brimstone weapons.


One component of the sale of the Rafale would be resolving what the UAE will do with its fleet of Mirage 2000-9 fighters. France has offered to buy back these aircraft and find buyers for them.

The Rafale is seen as the flagship of French military aircraft technology, bringing together Dassault, Safran's Snecma and electronics maker Thales, and a host of suppliers.

Bill McHenry, Lockheed Martin's F-16 business development director, said his company is talking to the UAE about additional aircraft purchases.

"Yes, they have been looking at additional airplanes for their fleet and some modernization of their airplanes," he said. However, the additional aircraft purchases would go hand-in-hand with the UAE's F-16 fleet modernization plans, McHenry said. Because aircraft would have to be taken out of service for upgrades, he said, the UAE is looking at additional planes to maintain a level force strength.

Saab's Gripen sales effort in the region is focused on Qatar, where the company, like many of its rivals, responded in mid-2010 to a request for information for a new fighter.

Little has been heard from the Qataris since the bids were submitted more than 15 months ago, with the Arab Spring and the Libyan conflict bringing progress to a standstill.

Magnus Olsson, Saab's regional director for Gripen exports, said that while they continue to monitor developments in the area, the focus of their major campaigns lies elsewhere.

While the Middle East is not a key area for Gripen at the moment, interest could strengthen on the back of efforts by Saab to sell its airborne early warning aircraft locally.

Eurofighter's immediate attention is focused on Japan and India rather than the gulf, with the major competitions the Typhoon is embroiled in appearing to be nearing a conclusion in both countries.

But with many of the gulf's air forces in the throes of modernizing, Typhoon's battle for supremacy in the region's fighter market continues unabated, primarily against Rafale and U.S. rivals F/A-18 and F-16.

The Typhoon, which like the Rafale acquitted itself well in the recent Libyan campaign, is being delivered to the Saudis as part of a massive 72-aircraft order that has the potential to be expanded at a later date.

In Oman, long-running negotiations with Eurofighter partner BAE Systems about buying Typhoons rumble on with issues, including the standard of aircraft, support and late delivery of offshore patrol vessels to the gulf nation's Navy, all having slowed a conclusion to the deal.

France Determined To Seal First Rafale Export - Defense News
 
108 MMRCAS will roll out from Bangalore; cool HAL waits for the big winner

Bangalore: Plane-maker Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) chose not to jump into the MMRCA madness, even as aviation pundits world over are tracking every bit of news on the opening of a bumper commercial bid. While the Ministry of Defence officials scanned macro price points along with Typhoon (Eurofighter) and Rafale (Dassault) representatives in Delhi, senior officials of HAL remained cool as a cucumber. They probably knew, who ever bags the $10.4 b order, they will be the biggest winner.
Out of the 126 combat MMRCA fighters, HAL will manufacture 108 aircraft (make category) at the Aircraft Division in Bangalore, while the first 18 (buy category) will come in a fly-away condition from the hangars of the winner. “First we will make few planes from a semi-knocked-down kit, then from completely knocked-down kit and finally from absolute raw material phase. Once, we are clear with the rules of the game, we will start parallel activities,” HAL sources said.
When asked how significant will be the MMRCA project to HAL, the official said: “It will be a huge learning curve for us as we lay our hands on the next-level of fighter jet. It will also give us some learning points for our Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) project. We will be able to extrapolate the MMRCA knowledge to FGFA. Definitely it is an exciting prospect to get involved with Western aircraft technology.”
Currently HAL’s Hawk production line is abuzz with activities and they are hoping to complete the delivery of the remaining 15 aircraft (out of a total 42 made under licence) by the end of 2011-2012. “This line will be busy for couple of years more as we have an additional order of 57 aircraft. So, MMRCA will be a separate production line, with likely additional manpower,” sources said. HAL’s Engine Division in Bangalore will also play a key role in the MMRCA project.
While it is very sketchy to predict when the Indian Air Force will get the first HAL-built MMRCA, the company is seeing this as an opportunity to raise the bar of professional work sphere. ”We need to possibly empower our managers and encourage them to take risks fearlessly. Risk-taking and ability to take swift decisions are vital when we work on a massive project like MMRCA,” the official said.
 
surprise o surprise. deccan herald claims eurofighter unit cost cheaper than Rafale..



Fighter deal suspense continues



Termed the mother of all defence deals, the procurement of 126 multi-billion dollar medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) has taken a new shape and India may well end up with the newer and more advanced aircraft from the two companies left in the race.

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has shortlisted European Consortium EADS’ Eurofighter and French firm Dassault’s Rafale for the estimated $10.4 billion deal, disqualifying the other contenders.

The MoD, on Friday last, opened the commercial bids of the two contenders clearing way for further negotiations before it announces the lowest bidder. According to well-placed sources, EADS, which is promoting the more advanced and thereby more expensive aircraft is said to have quoted a lower price “unit flyaway cost.”

“This comes as a contradiction to all the assessments made in the past that Eurofighter is costly and that India might not purchase it due to cost pressures,” a source said.

The two aircraft were, according to Air Commodore B R Krishna, Commandant, Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment, were “shortlisted after they complied with the 600-odd parameters laid down in the Air Staff Qualitative Requirements.” Sources, while adding that though there was not too much of a difference between the two quotes, however said: “This shows how important the deal is for countries involved in the promotion of the aircraft and with the European economy not exactly in a comfortable position, such deals have become more dearer.”

The vendors refused to comment on the matter as there is confidentiality agreement. Speaking to Deccan Herald, MoD spokesperson Sitanshu Kar, without confirming anything said: “...This is just the unit cost, there is more work left before one could rejoice or feel otherwise. We have some of our best personnel looking into the matter and the L-1 could be announced in another six to eight weeks.”

The MoD is busy with benchmarking and standardisation of costs, so that there are common parameters for the bidders. Kar said a Joint Director rank official from the Defence Accounts Department will head the deliberation of costs.

Given that India is, for the first time going to consider more than just the direct acquisition costs before selecting the lowest bidder, the MoD will also evaluate the life-cycle costs (keeping in mind a time span of 40 years of operation), cost of other aspects like the electronic warfare equipment, avionics et al.

And considering that the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited will manufacture the selected aircraft in the future, transfer of technology costs will also be considered.


Fighter deal suspense continues
 
surprise o surprise. deccan herald claims eurofighter unit cost cheaper than Rafale..



Fighter deal suspense continues



Termed the mother of all defence deals, the procurement of 126 multi-billion dollar medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) has taken a new shape and India may well end up with the newer and more advanced aircraft from the two companies left in the race.

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has shortlisted European Consortium EADS’ Eurofighter and French firm Dassault’s Rafale for the estimated $10.4 billion deal, disqualifying the other contenders.

The MoD, on Friday last, opened the commercial bids of the two contenders clearing way for further negotiations before it announces the lowest bidder. According to well-placed sources, EADS, which is promoting the more advanced and thereby more expensive aircraft is said to have quoted a lower price “unit flyaway cost.”

“This comes as a contradiction to all the assessments made in the past that Eurofighter is costly and that India might not purchase it due to cost pressures,” a source said.

The two aircraft were, according to Air Commodore B R Krishna, Commandant, Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment, were “shortlisted after they complied with the 600-odd parameters laid down in the Air Staff Qualitative Requirements.” Sources, while adding that though there was not too much of a difference between the two quotes, however said: “This shows how important the deal is for countries involved in the promotion of the aircraft and with the European economy not exactly in a comfortable position, such deals have become more dearer.”

The vendors refused to comment on the matter as there is confidentiality agreement. Speaking to Deccan Herald, MoD spokesperson Sitanshu Kar, without confirming anything said: “...This is just the unit cost, there is more work left before one could rejoice or feel otherwise. We have some of our best personnel looking into the matter and the L-1 could be announced in another six to eight weeks.”

The MoD is busy with benchmarking and standardisation of costs, so that there are common parameters for the bidders. Kar said a Joint Director rank official from the Defence Accounts Department will head the deliberation of costs.

Given that India is, for the first time going to consider more than just the direct acquisition costs before selecting the lowest bidder, the MoD will also evaluate the life-cycle costs (keeping in mind a time span of 40 years of operation), cost of other aspects like the electronic warfare equipment, avionics et al.

And considering that the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited will manufacture the selected aircraft in the future, transfer of technology costs will also be considered.


Fighter deal suspense continues
 
surprise o surprise. deccan herald claims eurofighter unit cost cheaper than Rafale..



Fighter deal suspense continues



Termed the mother of all defence deals, the procurement of 126 multi-billion dollar medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) has taken a new shape and India may well end up with the newer and more advanced aircraft from the two companies left in the race.

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has shortlisted European Consortium EADS’ Eurofighter and French firm Dassault’s Rafale for the estimated $10.4 billion deal, disqualifying the other contenders.

The MoD, on Friday last, opened the commercial bids of the two contenders clearing way for further negotiations before it announces the lowest bidder. According to well-placed sources, EADS, which is promoting the more advanced and thereby more expensive aircraft is said to have quoted a lower price “unit flyaway cost.”

“This comes as a contradiction to all the assessments made in the past that Eurofighter is costly and that India might not purchase it due to cost pressures,” a source said.

The two aircraft were, according to Air Commodore B R Krishna, Commandant, Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment, were “shortlisted after they complied with the 600-odd parameters laid down in the Air Staff Qualitative Requirements.” Sources, while adding that though there was not too much of a difference between the two quotes, however said: “This shows how important the deal is for countries involved in the promotion of the aircraft and with the European economy not exactly in a comfortable position, such deals have become more dearer.”

The vendors refused to comment on the matter as there is confidentiality agreement. Speaking to Deccan Herald, MoD spokesperson Sitanshu Kar, without confirming anything said: “...This is just the unit cost, there is more work left before one could rejoice or feel otherwise. We have some of our best personnel looking into the matter and the L-1 could be announced in another six to eight weeks.”

The MoD is busy with benchmarking and standardisation of costs, so that there are common parameters for the bidders. Kar said a Joint Director rank official from the Defence Accounts Department will head the deliberation of costs.

Given that India is, for the first time going to consider more than just the direct acquisition costs before selecting the lowest bidder, the MoD will also evaluate the life-cycle costs (keeping in mind a time span of 40 years of operation), cost of other aspects like the electronic warfare equipment, avionics et al.

And considering that the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited will manufacture the selected aircraft in the future, transfer of technology costs will also be considered.


Fighter deal suspense continues

What Benny u were betting on the wrong horse for this long ??:P
 
^^^^ lol, another "unamed source" was quoted as saying the exact opposite- the Rafele had emerged cheaper. The "unamed source" business is just BS trying to be sold off as credible news. What is the point in reporting somthing as fact if you can't independently verify the facts. Everyone has vested interests and these sort of reports help fools look credible.
 
when drdo goong to test Nirbhay. too much delay
 
What Benny u were betting on the wrong horse for this long ??:P

Ha ha ... now that Euro Fighter is better and on top of it cost effective ... I will stick my neck out and call EF for IAF! Kind of rhymes

:cheers:
 
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