Could Israel and Pakistan become friends?

[wiseone2]

the only thing i don't understand is how come palestinians were against pakistanis in jordan? didn't they felt affection?

pakistanis help jordan's king fight the palestinians

 

[graphican]

Many scholars believe that this is not referring to all the Jews or all the Christians but only ones who are allies of each other (i.e. NATO). While rest of the jews (in minority perhaps) are okay and we can marry and even eat their food.
If Israel frees all the occupied areas, means Israel ceases to exist as a state, then why not. We will ensure their security as we did for hundreds of years in Yaroshalam (Jerusalem).

Not many but one, Imran Hussain has extracted this meaning few years ago. Accordion to Imran Hussain, such Christians and Jews who are allies of each other shouldn't be taken an allies. Imran Hussian is in favour if Russian Christians and speaks soft about them. Rightly or wrongly, Imran Hussain thinks such Jews and such Christians who are not allies of each other could be taken as allie. But this is an extracted meaning and not the wording of Quran.

But even if you take Imran Hussain's interpretation, Israelis cannot be made an ally or a friend.

 

[HariPrasad]

No because the hating Hindus and jews are at the core of Ideology of Islam and pakistan in particular.

 

[sparten]

I studied in three out of four provinces. As well as Islamabad. Over 15 years from 1988 to 2003. I cannot recall anything which could be construed as "hatred" for minorities. Jews were conspicuous by their absence, when Pakistanis think of non muslims, they usually mean Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, hell Buddhists and Jains before Jews.

Oh well unless you count Merchant of Venice which English syllabus writers seem to love and in that case yeah, but you always were supposed to feel sorry for Shylock.

I can stretch any text to show how it is hateful. Means sweet dash all.

 

[graphican]

What's your opinion about God's promise?

17:104. And We said to the Children of Israel after him: "Dwell in the land, then, when the final and the last promise comes near [i.e. the Day of Resurrection or the descent of Christ ['Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) on the earth]. We shall bring you altogether as mixed crowd (gathered out of various nations)

You may want to recite these verses as well.


Quran: 17:4
And We conveyed to the Children of Israel in the Scripture that, "You will surely cause corruption on the earth twice, and you will surely reach [a degree of] great haughtiness.

Quran: 17:5
So when the [time of] promise came for the first of them, We sent against you servants of Ours - those of great military might, and they probed [even] into the homes, and it was a promise fulfilled.

Quran: 17:6
Then We gave back to you a return victory over them. And We reinforced you with wealth and sons and made you more numerous in manpower

Quran: 17:7
[And said], "If you do good, you do good for yourselves; and if you do evil, [you do it] to yourselves." Then when the final promise came, [We sent your enemies] to sadden your faces and to enter the temple in Jerusalem, as they entered it the first time, and to destroy what they had taken over with [total] destruction.

Quran: 17:8
[Then Allah said], "It is expected, [if you repent], that your Lord will have mercy upon you. But if you return [to sin], We will return [to punishment]. And We have made Hell, for the disbelievers, a prison-bed."


Add sayings of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) with it to understand what is foretelling about the second time.

Jews are promised of punishment twice and they've seen one punishment only thus far. Now go on and decide if you want to be friends and allies of the one who Allah is going to punish.

 

[Aramagedon]

What's your opinion about God's promise?

17:104. And We said to the Children of Israel after him: "Dwell in the land, then, when the final and the last promise comes near [i.e. the Day of Resurrection or the descent of Christ ['Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) on the earth]. We shall bring you altogether as mixed crowd (gathered out of various nations)

This verse is about time of prophet Muses (PBUH) when God gave them tidings about victory over pharaoh and become successor in the land after him.
However after victory over pharaoh and demise of prophet Muses (PBHH) Jews rejected God's prophets and martyred them therefore God cursed them. The same condition with the Arabs who martyred 11 Imams (brother and grandsons of prophet Muhammad) and daughter of prophet Muhammad (PBUH) after demise of their prophet.

Quran: [5,12]
Allah made a covenant with the children of israel and raised among them twelve chieftains. he said: 'i shall be with you and if you establish the prayers and pay the obligatory charity; if you believe in my messengers and assist them and give allah a generous loan, i shall forgive you your sins and admit you to gardens underneath which rivers flow. whosoever amongst you disbelieves after that, he indeed has strayed from the straight path. ' 12
but because they broke their covenant, we cursed them and hardened their hearts. they changed the words from their places and have forgotten a portion of what they were reminded. except for a few, you will always find treachery from them, yet pardon them, and forgive; indeed allah loves the gooddoers. 13

Ya Ali

You may want to recite these verses as well.


Quran: 17:4
And We conveyed to the Children of Israel in the Scripture that, "You will surely cause corruption on the earth twice, and you will surely reach [a degree of] great haughtiness.

Quran: 17:5
So when the [time of] promise came for the first of them, We sent against you servants of Ours - those of great military might, and they probed [even] into the homes, and it was a promise fulfilled.

Quran: 17:6
Then We gave back to you a return victory over them. And We reinforced you with wealth and sons and made you more numerous in manpower

Quran: 17:7
[And said], "If you do good, you do good for yourselves; and if you do evil, [you do it] to yourselves." Then when the final promise came, [We sent your enemies] to sadden your faces and to enter the temple in Jerusalem, as they entered it the first time, and to destroy what they had taken over with [total] destruction.

Quran: 17:8
[Then Allah said], "It is expected, [if you repent], that your Lord will have mercy upon you. But if you return [to sin], We will return [to punishment]. And We have made Hell, for the disbelievers, a prison-bed."


Add sayings of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) with it to understand what is foretelling about the second time.

Jews are promised of punishment twice and they've seen one punishment only thus far. Now go on and decide if you want to be friends and allies of the one who Allah is going to punish.

Thank you.

Noble Quran:

You will find that the most people in enmity against Muslims are the Jews. [5,82]

Germany killed 6 million Jews so it must accept same 6 million colonist Jews from the occupied Palestine. Palestinians cannot be punished for the crimes of Germans.

Holocaust is a lie.
Only 60k Jews were killed.

 

[Pakistanisage]

There is absolutely no reason for Pakistan to maintain a hostile attitude against State of Israel when Arab Nations themselves have made Peace with Israel.

Palestine - Israeli conflict is " Not our War and Not our Problem ".

I have yet to see any Arab country stand by our side in our conflict with India.

Why are we so Gungho about other Nations Issues ?

 

[Goenitz]

@DESERT FIGHTER
@graphican @war&peace
i heard verse as ".... they can't be your friends...." anyway it means they are not your well wishers as they might insist on some thing which is unislamic but they are offering it with utmost sincerity... like if you are a bit weaker they may say don't observe fasting of Ramdan... now they would say out of concern but its a major part of Iman so a Muslim friend would say ''rakh lay yar .. mard ban' otherwise Holy Prophet SW used to have trade with jews/christians and pagans tooo....

but business aside how can Pakistan endorse an illegal occupation... pak then idk has to accept indian rule over kashmir?

 

[Sugarcane]

You may want to recite these verses as well.


Quran: 17:4
And We conveyed to the Children of Israel in the Scripture that, "You will surely cause corruption on the earth twice, and you will surely reach [a degree of] great haughtiness.

Quran: 17:5
So when the [time of] promise came for the first of them, We sent against you servants of Ours - those of great military might, and they probed [even] into the homes, and it was a promise fulfilled.

Quran: 17:6
Then We gave back to you a return victory over them. And We reinforced you with wealth and sons and made you more numerous in manpower

Quran: 17:7
[And said], "If you do good, you do good for yourselves; and if you do evil, [you do it] to yourselves." Then when the final promise came, [We sent your enemies] to sadden your faces and to enter the temple in Jerusalem, as they entered it the first time, and to destroy what they had taken over with [total] destruction.

Quran: 17:8
[Then Allah said], "It is expected, [if you repent], that your Lord will have mercy upon you. But if you return [to sin], We will return [to punishment]. And We have made Hell, for the disbelievers, a prison-bed."


Add sayings of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) with it to understand what is foretelling about the second time.

Jews are promised of punishment twice and they've seen one punishment only thus far. Now go on and decide if you want to be friends and allies of the one who Allah is going to punish.

You may want to recite these verses as well.


Quran: 17:4
And We conveyed to the Children of Israel in the Scripture that, "You will surely cause corruption on the earth twice, and you will surely reach [a degree of] great haughtiness.

Quran: 17:5
So when the [time of] promise came for the first of them, We sent against you servants of Ours - those of great military might, and they probed [even] into the homes, and it was a promise fulfilled.

Quran: 17:6
Then We gave back to you a return victory over them. And We reinforced you with wealth and sons and made you more numerous in manpower

Quran: 17:7
[And said], "If you do good, you do good for yourselves; and if you do evil, [you do it] to yourselves." Then when the final promise came, [We sent your enemies] to sadden your faces and to enter the temple in Jerusalem, as they entered it the first time, and to destroy what they had taken over with [total] destruction.

Quran: 17:8
[Then Allah said], "It is expected, [if you repent], that your Lord will have mercy upon you. But if you return [to sin], We will return [to punishment]. And We have made Hell, for the disbelievers, a prison-bed."


Add sayings of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) with it to understand what is foretelling about the second time.

Jews are promised of punishment twice and they've seen one punishment only thus far. Now go on and decide if you want to be friends and allies of the one who Allah is going to punish.

If promise of 17:104 was already fulfilled than Quran is already proven wrong because Jews came back again. And recognizing reality (which Israel is) doesn't mean that start supporting her injustice.

 

[WaLeEdK2]

These are not the type of people we should be associated with.

 

[graphican]

If promise of 17:107 was already fulfilled than Quran is already proven wrong because Jews came back again. And recognizing reality (which Israel is) doesn't mean that start supporting her injustice.

The second time is not fulfilled yet. If you are not familiar, recite Sahi Bukhari and the Ahadith about the end of times. You will find arrival of antichrist and Jesus PBUH's return. In the same Ahadith you will find who Jews will side.

@DESERT FIGHTER
@graphican @war&peace
i heard verse as ".... they can't be your friends...." anyway it means they are not your well wishers as they might insist on some thing which is unislamic but they are offering it with utmost sincerity... like if you are a bit weaker they may say don't observe fasting of Ramdan... now they would say out of concern but its a major part of Iman so a Muslim friend would say ''rakh lay yar .. mard ban' otherwise Holy Prophet SW used to have trade with jews/christians and pagans tooo....

but business aside how can Pakistan endorse an illegal occupation... pak then idk has to accept indian rule over kashmir?

These are two different aspects.

1 - Taking somebody an ally in war
2 - Doing trade and your day-to-day dealings

You are not forbidden to deal with Jews or to work with them or trade with them. What you cannot do is expect them to side with you when you are in trouble. Here term of "Allies" is used and "Allies and Foes" are taken in the battle fields.

 

[Aramagedon]

View attachment 280989
View attachment 280990

These are not the type of people we should be associated with.

The first suiciders and goons in the world were Israelis. Much before than salafi Arabs.

 

[war&peace]

Not many but one, Imran Hussain has extracted this meaning few years ago. Accordion to Imran Hussain, such Christians and Jews who are allies of each other shouldn't be taken an allies. Imran Hussian is in favour if Russian Christians and speaks soft about them. Rightly or wrongly, Imran Hussain thinks such Jews and such Christians who are not allies of each other could be taken as allie. But this is an extracted meaning and not the wording of Quran.

But even if you take Imran Hussain's interpretation, Israelis cannot be made an ally or a friend.

I heard many speakers at MSA saying this and would you like to tell me who is Imran Hussain. By the way, how did you extract the meaning that I favour friendship Israel. I am against the very existence of Israel since it was created illegally.

 

[Chika_Pika]

Have you ever heard about pluralism? Is it so uncommon in Pakistan?

Well 98.3 % population is from certain religion
with a prejudice to their religious supremacy

Indians will be fine if Israel and Pakistan establish diplomatic ties

India did not told you not to recognize isreal.
It's you who poke nose in others matter
You volunteerd to fight against them
Btw it'll also be intresting reaction of muslim countries on Pakistani attempt to make diplomatic relations with Israel

 

[Sugarcane]

The second time is not fulfilled yet. If you are not familiar, recite Sahi Bukhari and the Ahadith about the end of times. You will find arrival of antichrist and Jesus PBUH's return. In the same Ahadith you will find who Jews will side.

Two promises which you quoted were already fulfilled at time when these verses were reviled (as it's clear from past tense in verses and historical evidences proves it) while 17:104 is not. Even for argument sake if 17:104 or the 2nd time which you are calling was not fulfilled at time of revelation than how you are sure that creation of Israel is not fulfillment of the prophecy? I have read those Hadith and stuff related, no where it's mentioned that Anti-Christ will come next day Jews will returned, in fact they are supposed to come back and re-build Temple.

Religious things aside, even in practical world Pakistan's not recognizing Israel is not any problem for Israel neither is lip service for Palestinian brings any good to Palestine. All Muslim countries if sincere with Palestinian people should engage Israel in order to find some practical solution which can bring peace and prosperity for Palestinians instead of issuing customary statements or worse helping Israel with empty threats or random rocket attacks to justify her acts and arms build up.