Congres leader arrested, 4515 crore of Forex seized, Church funds suspected

[Mritunjaya]

What strawman argument are you talking about?? Here is one the pearl from you

Now do not say that you were talking about a particular person.. You were talking about Muslims and Christians as a whole..

As I said, people are converting from our churches too.. But what is the use of protesting? You tell me honestly? Its their personal choice.. If they find better life or comfort in that community so be it.. And please tell me where you find him calling all Hindus as blind.. You are just blinded with the hatred against other religions..



What made you think that I am defending them?? Just ignore my religion for once and read that post again.. I said most of the conversions are happened because people are hungry and wanted food.. If those people are well off in the first place, there wont be any conversions at this extend..There is no brainwash or manipulation.. Its just pure food..



Thats what I am saying too.. Talk about all the bad practices irrespective of the religion.. Why it has to be pointed on one religion only.. Talk about it with facts and sense.. Not the bickering like Christians are this, muslims are that!!

Dude where do you find me starting a dick measuring contest here.. You just plainly stated that we cannot trust neo converts, ABCDs and Indian American.. I said, they too have contributed to the Indian society one way or other.. Its not a dick measuring contest, just an advice not to put every one in same category..

And please, if you have only arguments like "classic strawmen argument" and " playing victim card" then dont bother to reply.. Its getting boring with your repetitiveness.

That statement still stands .......where is the confusion ?

Your protests against Modi is in stark contrast against your reluctance to protest against conversion that prey on the hungry and the desperate.

Conversion is not 'pure food' ....govt. provides rice @ 2 rs per kg. It is something far more sinister and devious.

The money caught was from a christian missionary so talk about christian is natural. You don't want that? then protest against such unethical practices.

 

[Mritunjaya]

Somebody should remind the Hindu internet warrior here that his scripture dictates that "Austerity of speech consists in speaking words that are truthful, pleasing, beneficial and not agitating to others"

Do you even know the context to where this is used ? This is the answer given when Arjuna ask krishna what is the proper form of worship.

arjuna uvāca, ye śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya
yajante śraddhayānvitāḥ teṣāḿ niṣṭhā tu kā kṛṣṇa
sattvam āho rajas tamaḥ(tamas)

Arjuna asks, those who give up the teachings of the scripture, but worship with devotion oh krishna, is it goodness, passion or ignorance ?


Krishna then explains that worship can be of all three kind ie. in goodness, in passion or in ignorance

Worship that is done by sacrifice, by austerity and penance, and Charity.

anudvega-karaḿ vākyaḿ, satyaḿ priya-hitaḿ ca yat
svādhyāyābhyasanaḿ caiva, vāń-mayaḿ tapa ucyate

Calm speech, beneficial truthful speech and study and practice of Veda's is also consider Austerity.



It does not guide action and speech during regular debates ............ unless you have renounced this materialistic world, totally into spirituality and spend all your possible hours worshiping god.

 

[Iggy]

That statement still stands .......where is the confusion ?

You should have to make up your mind.. One side you are saying you are only attacking a particular person and other side you are saying, Christians and Muslims along with INdian Americans will change the royalty.. This itself shows, your arguments was not against a person but against other communities and people..

Your protests against Modi is in stark contrast against your reluctance to protest against conversion that prey on the hungry and the desperate.

Lolz, I dont have to proove it to you how much I hate this kind of actions.. For me nation comes first..

Conversion is not 'pure food' ....govt. provides rice @ 2 rs per kg. It is something far more sinister and devious.

Do you really think all this projects are reaching the tribal belts and backward classes?

The money caught was from a christian missionary so talk about christian is natural. You don't want that? then protest against such unethical practices.

Then talk about that missionary.. Not calling Christians that, Muslims this.. You think you can spread anykind of nonsense in the name of "truth" and get away with it, then you are wrong..

 

[PlanetWarrior]

Do you even know the context to where this is used ? This is the answer given when Arjuna ask krishna what is the proper form of worship.

arjuna uvāca, ye śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya
yajante śraddhayānvitāḥ teṣāḿ niṣṭhā tu kā kṛṣṇa
sattvam āho rajas tamaḥ(tamas)

Arjuna asks, those who give up the teachings of the scripture, but worship with devotion oh krishna, is it goodness, passion or ignorance ?


Krishna then explains that worship can be of all three kind ie. in goodness, in passion or in ignorance

Worship that is done by sacrifice, by austerity and penance, and Charity.

anudvega-karaḿ vākyaḿ, satyaḿ priya-hitaḿ ca yat
svādhyāyābhyasanaḿ caiva, vāń-mayaḿ tapa ucyate

Calm speech, beneficial truthful speech and study and practice of Veda's is also consider Austerity.



It does not guide action and speech during regular debates ............ unless you have renounced this materialistic world, totally into spirituality and spend all your possible hours worshiping god.

But I have my child ...hence I am preaching to you

 

[Mritunjaya]

You should have to make up your mind.. One side you are saying you are only attacking a particular person and other side you are saying, Christians and Muslims along with INdian Americans will change the royalty.. This itself shows, your arguments was not against a person but against other communities and people..

Then talk about that missionary.. Not calling Christians that, Muslims this.. You think you can spread anykind of nonsense in the name of "truth" and get away with it, then you are wrong..

I said Hindus don't have the option of betraying the country for religion. India is the only country where Hindu's can find safe refuge. Christians and Muslims have that option. The same way some communist in India chose to support china when they attacked us. This is a statement of fact and continues to remain the truth.

The equivalent would be expecting the jews to betray Israel or the muslims to betray Mecca.

Abrahamic religions are history centrist and geography centrist and that center lies outside India. When push comes to shove, they will have to choose their center. For every Hindu India is the center. That will never change.

I am and was talking about the christian missionary and their supporting ecosystem, role of money and political protection they receive.

 

[Iggy]

I said Hindus don't have the option of betraying the country for religion. India is the only country where Hindu's can find safe refuge. Christians and Muslims have that option. The same way some communist in India chose to support china when they attacked us. This is a statement of fact and continues to remain the truth.

Then your whole argument of talking about one person not christian community is flawed right? And you keep forgetting one thing.. We born and bought up here.. Its the place where my grand father, my father was born and if we go abroad, we will be treated as Indian only... No other special consideration just because we are Christians or Muslims.. Just ask any muslims who work in Middle East..

The equivalent would be expecting the jews to betray Israel or the muslims to betray Mecca.

As I said you have no clue about what you are talking!!

Abrahamic religions are history centrist and geography centrist and that center lies outside India. When push comes to shove, they will have to choose their center. For every Hindu India is the center. That will never change.

Another moronic statement.. Dude, our religion is what different, basically, we are all Indians.. Our culture is Indian.. How pathetic can you get??

I am and was talking about the christian missionary and their supporting ecosystem, role of money and political protection they receive

No you were rather trying to tarnish whole christian community and spread your hateful agenda.. There were plenty of people talking about it in a civilized manner.. You just wanted to attack the whole community for your satisfaction..

 

[Mritunjaya]

Then your whole argument of talking about one person not christian community is flawed right? And you keep forgetting one thing.. We born and bought up here.. Its the place where my grand father, my father was born and if we go abroad, we will be treated as Indian only... No other special consideration just because we are Christians or Muslims.. Just ask any muslims who work in Middle East..

No one has denied the fact that your are Indians or you are christian, the statement merely underscores facts regarding situations where there is conflict of interest. Even talking about this makes people uncomfortable. But if you are dealing with facts why should any fact make anyone uncomfortable.

The issue here is as a christian and Indian you can have a vested interest in increasing the christian base in India. Especially since christiantiy is a proselytising religion with a LONG history of conversions.

As to the special privileges you know its a lie. Muslims get job preference in Middle east followed by Christians and then Hindu. The same holds good even for European countries. I am talking about first among equals. I have already pointed to the reservation for christians in school admissions, college admissions, reservation for jobs in christian colleges and schools etc. There is a study somewhere that documents it very clearly. Let me dig it up.

Another moronic statement.. Dude, our religion is what different, basically, we are all Indians.. Our culture is Indian.. How pathetic can you get??

You culture may be Indian in parts and western in parts, but your religious center is certainly not in India. Which was the point all along. Again no one has denied your Indian identity.

No you were rather trying to tarnish whole christian community and spread your hateful agenda.. There were plenty of people talking about it in a civilized manner.. You just wanted to attack the whole community for your satisfaction..

LOL.....I have already addressed this particular psychological problem you seem to display repeatedly.

 

[Iggy]

No one has denied the fact that your are Indians or you are christian, the statement merely underscores facts regarding situations where there is conflict of interest. Even talking about this makes people uncomfortable. But if you are dealing with facts why should any fact make anyone uncomfortable.

What conflict of interest are you talking about?? If a Christian USA can attack a Christian Germany then what the problem you see with us fighting for our country?? I have heard this conflict of interest long time in this forum? Where do you see Christians as a whole fighting together in the name of religion after the crusades? Where did anyone of the religious leaders in Christianity claims that their our royalty should be first to religion and then to country? What conflict of interest are you talking about?? Please elaborate? I am all ears..

The issue here is as a christian and Indian you can have a vested interest in increasing the christian base in India. Especially since christiantiy is a proselytising religion with a LONG history of conversions.

Is it done in every religion?? There are lot of people converted in to Buddhist also..I am all for conversion if that person was ready to convert up on his free will.. I mean no goodies, no privileges.. I am against these rewards for conversion theory.. My religion never teaches that.. These kind of acts were done in dark ages and it is not at all justifiable.. If we wanted to increase the base, we can always put an hold to that birth control and give birth like rats.Pray tell me how a 5 crore population is going affect a vast religion like Hinduism.. Did you read about the tribal s convert back to Hinduism?? Some one may be convert them for food and other goodies but it wont be stable.. You are getting unnecessarily paranoid...

As to the special privileges you know its a lie. Muslims get job preference in Middle east followed by Christians and then Hindu. The same holds good even for European countries.

Yea right.. Ask them how exactly are they being treated in Middle East.. And about European countries, please provide me some proof that Christians are getting priority there? Some one who claims to have traveled many parts of the world should have known better..

I am talking about first among equals. I have already pointed to the reservation for christians in school admissions, college admissions, reservation for jobs in christian colleges and schools etc. There is a study somewhere that documents it very clearly. Let me dig it up.

And again, tell me is it the same with every religion? I mean you dont see Nair's getting priority in NSS schools and colleges and even in Jobs, same is in the case of Ezhavas and other castes also... Why you blame only Christians for that? BTW is any of these organisations deny admissions for other caste people?? Having said that, I am against it as a whole.. All this quota system have to go..

You culture may be Indian in parts and western in parts, but your religious center is certainly not in India. Which was the point all along. Again no one has denied your Indian identity.

LIke I give a fcuk about religious centers.. Dude any of us do not think about religion when it comes to the country.. I dont know where you are getting these kind of weird ideas.. Have you talk to any Christians in real life?? How many of them claimed to be proud of the European culture? Yes, we are proud to be Christian but am not sure any of us claimed that we have "western part" in us..

LOL.....I have already addressed this particular psychological problem you seem to display repeatedly.

Yet, the same you do not have problem accusing all of us with your weird imaginations..

 

[Mritunjaya]

What conflict of interest are you talking about?? If a Christian USA can attack a Christian Germany then what the problem you see with us fighting for our country?? I have heard this conflict of interest long time in this forum? Where do you see Christians as a whole fighting together in the name of religion after the crusades? Where did anyone of the religious leaders in Christianity claims that their our royalty should be first to religion and then to country? What conflict of interest are you talking about?? Please elaborate? I am all ears..

I never said Indian Christians will not fight for India with another christian nation. I have merely point to the fact that it will result in a conflict of interest where each christian will have to choose between nation and religion. When china attacked not all communist supported China, only some did. I am only pointing to religious conflict of interest. There are other non religious conflict of interest as well that is distributed over all Indians. Just because I am not dragging it into this discussing does not mean it does not exist.

My statement was 'can have and not will have. As usual you are hearing what you wish to hear.

Is it done in every religion?? There are lot of people converted in to Buddhist also..I am all for conversion if that person was ready to convert up on his free will.. I mean no goodies, no privileges.. I am against these rewards for conversion theory.. My religion never teaches that.. These kind of acts were done in dark ages and it is not at all justifiable.. If we wanted to increase the base, we can always put an hold to that birth control and give birth like rats.Pray tell me how a 5 crore population is going affect a vast religion like Hinduism.. Did you read about the tribal s convert back to Hinduism?? Some one may be convert them for food and other goodies but it wont be stable.. You are getting unnecessarily paranoid...

Buddhism used to be a proselytizing religion, but not anymore. It is never about what the religion 'teaches' but what the practitioners of that religion 'practice'. Terrorism is a case in point.

Estimate the land holdings, the political power, economic power, social power, media power and military power of that 5 crore population and then we begin to get an true idea.

Yea right.. Ask them how exactly are they being treated in Middle East.. And about European countries, please provide me some proof that Christians are getting priority there? Some one who claims to have traveled many parts of the world should have known better..

Here is a split up of Indians in the UAE based on their religion, Muslims (56%), followed by Christians (26%) and Hindus (16%).

And again, tell me is it the same with every religion? I mean you dont see Nair's getting priority in NSS schools and colleges and even in Jobs, same is in the case of Ezhavas and other castes also... Why you blame only Christians for that? BTW is any of these organisations deny admissions for other caste people?? Having said that, I am against it as a whole.. All this quota system have to go..

Caste reservation based on historical backwardness is different from reservations based on Religious identity. One is counted as affirmative action, other is an example of religious bigotry.

LIke I give a fcuk about religious centers.. Dude any of us do not think about religion when it comes to the country.. I dont know where you are getting these kind of weird ideas.. Have you talk to any Christians in real life?? How many of them claimed to be proud of the European culture? Yes, we are proud to be Christian but am not sure any of us claimed that we have "western part" in us..

You may not give a fcuk, others would.

I had a mallu christian neighbor (Samuel) who refused to go with us on picnic to Mahableshwar. Later we realized that it was because the name of the hill station was a 'hindu' sounding name. They insisted on going to 'Matheran' as it was more mallu christian sounding

Have you ever wondered what was the need for Christians to give themselves 'western' names ? would Hindu sounding names make them any less christian ?

What is the need for your priests to adopt the western dress code of long white robe or the hat for that matter ? Would a Indian dhoti make them any less christian ?

What was the need for your marriage rituals to ape the west ? Would a hindu marriage custom make them forget the ideals of Christ ?

How many christians have you seen celebrate Indian festivals like onam, vishu or diwali ? These are all ancient festivals which denote harvest seasons rather than any god. They participate in the festival, but never celebrate it themselves. Would celebrating it make them any less christian ?

The religious center plays a important role. That is just the way it is.

 

[Iggy]

How many christians have you seen celebrate Indian festivals like onam, vishu or diwali ? These are all ancient festivals which denote harvest seasons rather than any god. They participate in the festival, but never celebrate it themselves. Would celebrating it make them any less christian ?

Clearly no point arguing with you.. You are finding problems with our names, our dress and even our marriage system.. Lets agree to disagree.. And for this above part, I am not sure you are a malayalee or not, but apart from Deewali, both Vishu and Onam is celebrated by Christians also.. Heck we do get vishu kaineettam also.. Only the Kani is different, instead of Sreekrishna, we see the picture of Jesus.. So we can wind up here.. No point arguing about it..

 

[utraash]

So you thing this 4,500 crores were not sent over for conversion ?


Why exactly were these funds send to India ? ......... do answer this question, we would all like to know your insight.

So u feel this much amount will be used for conversion... buddy if that is true than one thing sure half of the population would have been already converted with this rate of fund infusion for conversion.......
Second Christian community are not to be blamed for conversion.....

Where is our so called secular gov. to stop the conversion why we people electing such gov. which has no intention to curb conversion industry......
I know this conversion better than u, I lived in Chennai for four years I have seen conversion... it does not just happen to poor family but also for other reason as well... Majorly poor people are the best target for conversion industry....

What objectionable is bringing whole Christian society under question mark....?

Now same amount can be used to welfare for poor people in such way there would be no conversion for want of better life........

 

[Mritunjaya]

So u feel this much amount will be used for conversion... buddy if that is true than one thing sure half of the population would have been already converted with this rate of fund infusion for conversion.......
Second Christian community are not to be blamed for conversion.....

Where is our so called secular gov. to stop the conversion why we people electing such gov. which has no intention to curb conversion industry......
I know this conversion better than u, I lived in Chennai for four years I have seen conversion... it does not just happen to poor family but also for other reason as well... Majorly poor people are the best target for conversion industry....

What objectionable is bringing whole Christian society under question mark....?

Now same amount can be used to welfare for poor people in such way there would be no conversion for want of better life........

Even if the missionary gives 10 Lakhs Rs cash to every poor Hindu to abandon his religion and convert, then it can convert only 45,150 Hindus .....either you are VERY poor in maths or a complete idiot. I think its is the later. Are you actually telling me that 45000 hindus have not convert to christianity in India ?

Lack of Hindu awareness and consciousness is the reason why we still have communal policies and govt. masquerading as 'secular' and people continuing to vote for them.

 

[Mritunjaya]

Clearly no point arguing with you.. You are finding problems with our names, our dress and even our marriage system.. Lets agree to disagree.. And for this above part, I am not sure you are a malayalee or not, but apart from Deewali, both Vishu and Onam is celebrated by Christians also.. Heck we do get vishu kaineettam also.. Only the Kani is different, instead of Sreekrishna, we see the picture of Jesus.. So we can wind up here.. No point arguing about it..

I wont even have a problem if you decide to call yourself umanchkravartypadurajumurthykavadiyar, dress is superman costume and marry in a underwater cave.

But I can see that you have avoided the actual question

Maybe you celebrate vishu and get kaineetam but I havent met too many christians who can say that. You are free to quite. .... you should have quite a long time ago when I had thrashed your every argument.

 

[Iggy]

I wont even have a problem if you decide to call yourself umanchkravartypadurajumurthykavadiyar, dress is superman costume and marry in a underwater cave.

But I can see that you have avoided the actual question

Maybe you celebrate vishu and get kaineetam but I havent met too many christians who can say that. You are free to quite. .... you should have quite a long time ago when I had thrashed your every argument.

Yea right!!

And for your actual question.. Go to a Christian wedding and tell me what you see.. Go to any European country and check whether they use magal suthra for marriage.. Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.. You have problem with your imaginary friend Samuel, let it be.. You have a good sleep with the achievement of thrashing every argument of mine.. Unless and until you know something about other religion, how can I make my points across to you?? All you have is immense hatred for other religion.. I cannot help you regarding it... I was not avoiding your question but rather I was not interested in educating you.. Because, your hatred against other religion have blinded your rational thinking.. So go and spread all those nonsense in the name of so called "truth" of yours..

 

[Mritunjaya]

Yea right!!

And for your actual question.. Go to a Christian wedding and tell me what you see.. Go to any European country and check whether they use magal suthra for marriage.. Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.. You have problem with your imaginary friend Samuel, let it be.. You have a good sleep with the achievement of thrashing every argument of mine.. Unless and until you know something about other religion, how can I make my points across to you?? All you have is immense hatred for other religion.. I cannot help you regarding it... I was not avoiding your question but rather I was not interested in educating you.. Because, your hatred against other religion have blinded your rational thinking.. So go and spread all those nonsense in the name of so called "truth" of yours..

Every christian wedding ape the west ....your customs ape the west. I have seen Christians put up CHRISTMAS TREE (a mock spruce or pine tree which is not even native to India) !!!!! and dress up as Santa Clause

You are again resorting to strawmen argument to counter facts ......boring.

You imitate the west to show your similarity with the 'west', your empathy with other Christians globally and your 'differences' with the rest of dharmic Indians. In this case, you can protest LOUDLY ....but loud protests cannot replace the FACTS.

This is the same reason muslims ape the arabs, take on arab names, follow arab customs etc...... To emphasize their 'difference' from the other 'hindus'.

You are the one to talk about 'rational thinking'

The FACTS still remains that some one named 'Krishna wadiyar' can still be a christian if he follows the teaching of christ without changing his name to 'Francis aluka' or 'John matthai'.