China's Military modernization: the Russian Factor

[ptldM3]

We are talking about individual systems but overall level of WORKING or [/b]DEPLOYED[/b] technology across all spectrum, in civilian as well as military life. In commercial off the shelf technology (COTS), for example, the US is well ahead of Russia..

I don't doubt the US is the leader in technology, but to say they dominate every field is simply not true. Does the US, for instance, have any equal to the S-400 let alone the still under development S-500?

The West have faced modern militaries that uses not only Soviet technology but also its exported doctrines and tactics. Sorry...But that is not our fault..

Was Iraq and Serbia modern? Most of their technology was 1960's-1970's era with just a handfull of modern technology, but of course they were so poorly trained and led that it wouldn't have mattered what they used.

The point i was trying to make was, Russian technology insn't as far behind as most people tend to beleive. I used the American military as an example that old Russian technology usually goes up against modern western technology. I definately didn't say the US military isn't capable of fighting a modern military.

Yes.

You are confused between airmanship and battle doctrines. Airmanship is about basic and advanced flight instructions or basic fighter maneuvers (BFM). But these pilot skills can be negated when doctrines demand the skillful pilot obey ground controllers instead of the high degree of autonomy Western pilots enjoyed and doctrines encouraged..

Traditionally Russian pilots have been under strict control from the ground. The Russian pilots in Korea were no different, as a matter of fact they were not aloud to fly over enemy territory, fly over water or speak in Russian over the radio. But i fail to understand your point. We know American pilots have a high degree of freedom when they fly, and Russians don't or didn't at the time, but they still managed to shoot down Americans.

So what? It is very easy to make an air-air missile travels several hundreds km..

It's easier said than done.

For instance, Lets take the AIM-120D, the most edvance and furthest range AIM-120 as of date. Its range is about 185 km some source say less. Its length is (12 feet). The K-100 has a range of 400km, and yes it is larger (about 19 feet) so the AIM-120D has a range of approximately 90km for every six feet, meaning if it was the same size as the K-100 it would have a range of about 270-280 km, so it's not as simple as making the rocket larger.

So what? It is very easy to make a fighter radar with several hundreds km detection range. But before you boast, look up the relationship between power, antenna dimensions and target resolutions. I would rather have high target resolutions over long distance.

Is tracking targets with a RCS of 3 square meters from 400 kilometers easy? Do you have proof the Irbis-E N035E has a low resolution? Because i have found otherwise.

in the modes of low, average and high resolution.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=622.0;wap2

 

[stax]

Trust me, Russian weapns sucks. If China wants to copy, it should try to get the US ones. Failing that, it should get German, French or other European ones. If these are not possible, go for Israeli, South African, Japanese or South Korean weapons. If even these prove illusive, try the Indian weapon as these has western components. If Indian weapons are not available for copying, then Chicom can copy from the Soviets. Товарищ

We'll design and produce advanced weapon by ourselves.
Maybe one day US can import weapons from China, if China won't impose sanction on US.

 

[ptldM3]

Overall, its clear that US has superior technology over the Russian technology. If the US choose to sell F-22 to Russia, wouldn't Russia buy it? If you said you'll only buy one and try to make a better F-22, you just demonstrated US technology superiority. You are the first and only person that believe Russia has superior technology over the US. I thought some of the Indian members here are dilutional. You topped them all combined.

You don't understand. I never said it was superior. depending on the field it is: inferior, equal, or superior.

For example, we are inferior in stealth, atleast equal in rockets, and superior in SAMS.

Trust me, Russian weapns sucks. If China wants to copy, it should try to get the US ones. Failing that, it should get German, French or other European ones. If these are not possible, go for Israeli, South African, Japanese or South Korean weapons. If even these prove illusive, try the Indian weapon as these has western components. If Indian weapons are not available for copying, then Chicom can copy from the Soviets. Товарищ

You could have atleast spelled it correctly. Honestly, everything you say is false, why would this be an exception?

Arn't you the same guy that said there was no proof Italy and Turkey romoved its missles because of the Cuban missle crisis? Classic.....

 

[oct605032048]

korean weapons？ maybe but there is a saying~ Japanese says that their productions are the best while Korean says whatever the best are theirs.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I have the strong confidence, that in the 70th anniversary of PRC, China will become the second best military around the world, overall 5-10 years behind US at that time, considering the norminal GDP will be comparable to US in the next 10 years.

US is indeed powerful, but not omnipotent, so it is not impossible to catch them up.

In the past, we need to rely on Russian Technology since our military technology was so weak in the 80-90s. Now we have absorbed their military technology to become our own, meanwhile with the our booming economy, we have the enough potential to develop our own military technology in the future, not relying on Russian technology anymore.

You have to be able to copy and imitate first, then innovate and create. So there is nothing shameful about China copying the superior technology from other developed countries, every national would use this convenient approach to lessen the technology gap between its stronger rival.

 

[faithfulguy]

You don't understand. I never said it was superior. depending on the field it is: inferior, equal, or superior.

For example, we are inferior in stealth, atleast equal in rockets, and superior in SAMS.

.....

Does Russia has equivalent of THAAD ability? If not, US has superior SAM (serface to air missile)

Has Russia tested a mid course kkv yet? It look like Russia is falling further and further behind US. Russian engineer soon be worry about now allow China to catch up to its tech than worry about catching up with the US.

 

[ptldM3]

Does Russia has equivalent of THAAD ability? If not, US has superior SAM (serface to air missile).

Yes we do it's called the S-400 and it's superior to the THAAD. The THAAD has failed numerous tests as you will read in the link, and it lacks the range of the S-400.

Terminal High Altitude Area Defense - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Has Russia tested a mid course kkv yet? It look like Russia is falling further and further behind US.

Kenetic kill vehical? Are you talking about the Star Wars program

Russian engineer soon be worry about now allow
China to catch up to its tech than worry about catching up with the US.

You know how rediculous you sound? Name one area China is superior to Russia in. Do you think we Russians will just stop and wait for China to catch up? And for your information our military spending is increasing each year, so no need to worry about anything.

The Chinese have been building their own jet engines or licenced copies for 57 years and they have not surpassed us in that time span, what makes you think they will surpass us now or in the near furture? And i'm not just talking about engine technolog.

 

[Honor]

Yes we do it's called the S-400 and it's superior to the THAAD. The THAAD has failed a numerous number of tests as you will read in the link, and it lacks the range of the S-400.

Terminal High Altitude Area Defense - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Kenetic kill vehical? Are you talking about the Star Wars program







You know how rediculous you sound? Name one area China is superior to Russia in. Do you think we Russians will just stop and wait for China to catch up? And for your information our military spending is increasing each year, so no need to worry about anything.

The Chinese have been building their own jet engines or licenced copies for 57 years and they have not surpassed us in that time span, what makes you think they will surpass us now or in the near furture? Do you have a gut feeling?

Russia is still superior in Military tech. We had yet to surpass and Russia.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Russia still holds some killer apps over China thanks the enormous military resources left by the former Soviet Union.

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

Russia still holds some killer apps over China thanks the enormous military resources left by the former Soviet Union.

Let's leave the discussion at this.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Since China has recently overcome its aircraft engines issue, so i would say China and Russia are almost comparable in military tech, both has its own advantage and specialized skills.

 

[faithfulguy]

Yes we do it's called the S-400 and it's superior to the THAAD. The THAAD has failed numerous tests as you will read in the link, and it lacks the range of the S-400.

Kenetic kill vehical? Are you talking about the Star Wars program

You know how rediculous you sound? Name one area China is superior to Russia in. Do you think we Russians will just stop and wait for China to catch up? And for your information our military spending is increasing each year, so no need to worry about anything.

The Chinese have been building their own jet engines or licenced copies for 57 years and they have not surpassed us in that time span, what makes you think they will surpass us now or in the near furture? And i'm not just talking about engine technolog.

The US had already deployed mid course kkv. Though its not enough to counter Russian arsenal, it should be enough to shoot down rougue nation missiles.

China is definitely behind that of Russia in technology. However, Russia is closer to China than the US when it comes to defence technology. Russia does have good SAM missile. However, I can't think of any technology that Russia is close to that of the US. When it comes to strategic weapons, Russia has trouble with Bulava development. I am wondering if USSA would have such trouble. I guess USSR is now splited into many pieces thanks to Reagan and his start wars

 

[lockh33d]

I don't doubt the US is the leader in technology, but to say they dominate every field is simply not true. Does the US, for instance, have any equal to the S-400 let alone the still under development S-500?

The US dominates nearly every field. It is the leader for electronics. Back in the 60's, it donated military electronic gear for Japan which it later reverse engineered into what we all take for granted. The US invented modern computer languages, C, Javascript etc. So, let's count again. TV's, radios, computers, aircrafts, mass production of private vehicles, wow! That's everything to me. What did Russia invent? First mass scale poverty after it chased WMD production before feeding its people?

Was Iraq and Serbia modern? Most of their technology was 1960's-1970's era with just a handfull of modern technology, but of course they were so poorly trained and led that it wouldn't have mattered what they used.

Laugh it out, laugh out loud, the US donated a few M16's and kicked you guys out of Afghan, I think that's proof enough of Russian workmanship.

The point i was trying to make was, Russian technology insn't as far behind as most people tend to beleive. I used the American military as an example that old Russian technology usually goes up against modern western technology. I definately didn't say the US military isn't capable of fighting a modern military.

Are you sure, I'm positive this would be the general view in Mother Russia.

Traditionally Russian pilots have been under strict control from the ground. The Russian pilots in Korea were no different, as a matter of fact they were not aloud to fly over enemy territory, fly over water or speak in Russian over the radio. But i fail to understand your point. We know American pilots have a high degree of freedom when they fly, and Russians don't or didn't at the time, but they still managed to shoot down Americans.

Shoot down US pilots using SAM's in large numbers under foliage. Even then, the US had little loss in comparison with enemy fatalities.

It's easier said than done.

For instance, Lets take the AIM-120D, the most edvance and furthest range AIM-120 as of date. Its range is about 185 km some source say less. Its length is (12 feet). The K-100 has a range of 400km, and yes it is larger (about 19 feet) so the AIM-120D has a range of approximately 90km for every six feet, meaning if it was the same size as the K-100 it would have a range of about 270-280 km, so it's not as simple as making the rocket larger.

But remember, Russian gear is good on paper. Once in use on the battlefield, they start to fold like origami's.

Is tracking targets with a RCS of 3 square meters from 400 kilometers easy? Do you have proof the Irbis-E N035E has a low resolution? Because i have found otherwise.

As above^

NIIP Bars and Irbis series of radar for Su-30/Su-35

 

[ptldM3]

The US dominates nearly every field. It is the leader for electronics. Back in the 60's, it donated military electronic gear for Japan which it later reverse engineered into what we all take for granted. The US invented modern computer languages, C, Javascript etc. So, let's count again. TV's, radios, computers, aircrafts, mass production of private vehicles, wow! That's everything to me. What did Russia invent? First mass scale poverty after it chased WMD production before feeding its people?.

First off let me say after you declared you "hated Russians" your credibility went out the window. Now i know your agenda is to spread anti-Russian propoganda.

Any ways the first computer was invented by a German by the name of Konrad Zuse, глупый идиот! The concept of television was invented by a German too. However, it was not until 1907 that developments in amplification tube technology, by Lee DeForest and Arthur Korn among others, made the design practical.[4] The first demonstration of the instantaneous transmission of still silhouette or duotone images was by Georges Rignoux and A. Fournier in Paris in 1909, using a rotating mirror-drum as the scanner and a matrix of 64 selenium cells as the receiver.[5]

In 1911, Boris Rosing and his student Vladimir Kozmich Zworykin created a television system that used a mechanical mirror-drum scanner to transmit

Who invented the modern helicopter? Thats right a Russian...a Russian by the name of Igor Sikorsky the same guy responsible for the Black Hawk Super stalion..ect.

Anyways what does this have to do with anything?

Laugh it out, laugh out loud, the US donated a few M16's and kicked you guys out of Afghan, I think that's proof enough of Russian workmanship..

Saudi Arabia, United States, China, Egypt, Pakistan...ect they all helped, whether, it was recruiting fighters, training fighter, or giving food an equipment to the fighters. Moreover, the US actually supplied more than M-16, they supplied stingers, mines, and various AK varients. But can i ask what happend in Vietnam?

Shoot down US pilots using SAM's in large numbers under foliage. Even then, the US had little loss in comparison with enemy fatalities..

How much school did you finish? Russian fighter pilots shot down American fighter pilots. Who said anything about SAM's?

Look at the kill tally.

Russian Aces of the Korean War - MiG-15 Pilots versus USAF F-86s

Go to youTube, History Channel had a documentary if you want to know more.

But remember, Russian gear is good on paper. Once in use on the battlefield, they start to fold like origami's.

Again the US always faces old technology opporated by morons. Profesionals such as the Russian pilots over Korea would tend to disagree with your statement.

 

[maxx]

You know how rediculous you sound? Name one area China is superior to Russia in. Do you think we Russians will just stop and wait for China to catch up? And for your information our military spending is increasing each year, so no need to worry about anything.

Railway tech. Also I believe Russia doesn't have type 71 LPD or type 52C destroyer equivalent, atleast not operational.

The Chinese have been building their own jet engines or licenced copies for 57 years and they have not surpassed us in that time span, what makes you think they will surpass us now or in the near furture? And i'm not just talking about engine technolog.

They have closed the gap which is important.