China always has Mongolia

[Martian2]

Three compelling reasons for China to annex Mongolia

1. Mongolia has an estimated 100 billion tonnes of coal. This is energy independence for China.

2. Mongolia is located much closer to the North Pole. China can move its megaton-tipped thermonuclear warheads closer to the U.S. and install larger megaton-warheads or more MIRVs/MARVs.

3. Mongolia has 1,564,115 square kilometers of land, which can support an enormous number of Hans. The Mongolian population currently numbers only 2.7 million. This is due to a lack of water.

However, China has the technology and industrial capability to build a pipe carrying desalinated water from the Bohai Bay to Mongolia. Another possibility is to dam the Brahmaputra and divert the water northward to Mongolia. Indians will be unaffected, because they have the monsoon and can install rain catchment barrels.

In other words, China has the scientific, industrial, and economic power to make Mongolia bloom. Let's examine how many Hans Mongolia can support.

Mongolian land mass: 1,564,115 km2

Germany: 357,021 km2 (population: 81,799,600)
France: 674,843 km2 (population: 65,350,000)
Britain: 243,610 km2 (population: 62,262,000)
Italy: 301,338 km2 (population: 60,813,326)
--------------------------------------------------------
European total: 1,576,812 km2 (population: 270,224,926)

In conclusion, by annexing Mongolia and transporting in massive amounts of water, China can support another 270 million Hans. We can take our population from 1.34 billion to 1.61 billion!

 

[Fantasy]

Three compelling reasons for China to annex Mongolia

1. Mongolia has an estimated 100 billion tonnes of coal. This is energy independence for China.

2. Mongolia is located much closer to the North Pole. China can move its megaton-tipped thermonuclear warheads closer to the U.S. and install larger megaton-warheads or more MIRVs/MARVs.

3. Mongolia has 1,564,115 square kilometers of land, which can support an enormous number of Hans. The Mongolian population currently numbers only 2.7 million. This is due to a lack of water.

However, China has the technology and industrial capability to build a pipe carrying desalinated water from the Bohai Bay to Mongolia. Another possibility is to dam the Brahmaputra and divert the water northward to Mongolia. Indians will be unaffected, because they have the monsoon and can install rain catchment barrels.

In other words, China has the scientific, industrial, and economic power to make Mongolia bloom. Let's examine how many Hans Mongolia can support.

Mongolian land mass: 1,564,115 km2

Germany: 357,021 km2 (population: 81,799,600)
France: 674,843 km2 (population: 65,350,000)
Britain: 243,610 km2 (population: 62,262,000)
Italy: 301,338 km2 (population: 60,813,326)
--------------------------------------------------------
European total: 1,576,812 km2 (population: 270,224,926)

In conclusion, by annexing Mongolia and transporting in massive amounts of water, China can support another 270 million Hans. We can take our population from 1.34 billion to 1.61 billion!

That is a complete lie, Mongolian coal reserves is only 12 billion ton, China have at least 50 times more this amount, you see once you start lying you don't stop you make up bigger and bigger lies.

The rest of what you said as usual made no sense whatsoever, like a troll ranting.

Taking Mongolia will guarantee that idiotic bananas like you be persecuted in the USA, which you will not be missed, the world needs less retarded armchair generals like you.

China is still most likely to get into a conflict with the USA in the future, whether directly or causing trouble through American proxies, and the flashpoint is still most likely the South China Sea.

 

[Anonymous user]

That is a complete lie, Mongolian coal reserves is only 12 billion ton, China have at least 50 times more this amount, you see once you start lying you don't stop you make up bigger and bigger lies.

Actually the coal there is valuable because its high grade coking coal which is mainly for steel making, currently Australia is China's biggest supplier for that. Power generation thermal coal is probably the one China has abundance of, Mongolia has this too but mostly north towards Russia, some project run by an outfit called Firebird capital forgot the name of the mine.

 

[kalu_miah]

Well I had this vague sense of discomfort about Martian2 and his ideas, thanks to Fantasy and his posts, we now know that China will not have a policy to annex little Mongolia, just to make the Qing map whole again. But if China wants to make Qing map whole, then some more areas from Russia will have to taken back also:

About 100 billion or 12 billion tons of coal, will it be worth it to mark China as an agressor nation? Will coal from Mongolia be important, if China already has more than enough coal for its needs? At war time liquid hydro carbon is more important I thought, so I am not sure how more coal will help.

But Martian2 does bring up one important issue, that smaller countries are vulnerable, specially the ones that are not under NATO type mutual nuke protection. So this high lights the importance for all little countries to team up into unions and have a mutual NATO like nuke protection, to safeguard their territory from aggression of bigger powerful nations, which I discuss here:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...rld-order-road-map-future-11.html#post2836627
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180755-geopolitics-asean-region.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180767-geopolitics-eurasia-region.html

@Fantasy do you think China is ready right this moment to engage the US in a total war? If not now then in how many years, 10, 20, 30 or more?

Would China be interested to help consolidation of its neighbor regions, ASEAN+ and Eurasia+ (please see above links) to reduce US meddling and influence and increase Chinese influence in these regions? Note that these regions may become powerful in their own right, if unions materialize, but integration process will take many decades, so they will not become threat for Chinese supremacy, only a safeguard/insurance against aggression. And also note that ASEAN+ may ally with both US and China for the time being, for economic and security reasons.

 

[Fantasy]

Well I had this vague sense of discomfort about Martian2 and his ideas, thanks to Fantasy and his posts, we now know that China will not have a policy to annex little Mongolia, just to make the Qing map whole again. But if China wants to make Qing map whole, then some more areas from Russia will have to taken back also:

About 100 billion or 12 billion tons of coal, will it be worth it to mark China as an agressor nation? Will coal from Mongolia be important, if China already has more than enough coal for its needs? At war time liquid hydro carbon is more important I thought, so I am not sure how more coal will help.

But Martian2 does bring up one important issue, that smaller countries are vulnerable, specially the ones that are not under NATO type mutual nuke protection. So this high lights the importance for all little countries to team up into unions and have a mutual NATO like nuke protection, to safeguard their territory from aggression of bigger powerful nations, which I discuss here:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...rld-order-road-map-future-11.html#post2836627
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180755-geopolitics-asean-region.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180767-geopolitics-eurasia-region.html

@Fantasy do you think China is ready right this moment to engage the US in a total war? If not now then in how many years, 10, 20, 30 or more?

Would China be interested to help consolidation of its neighbor regions, ASEAN+ and Eurasia+ (please see above links) to reduce US meddling and influence and increase Chinese influence in these regions? Note that these regions may become powerful in their own right, if unions materialize, but integration process will take many decades, so they will not become threat for Chinese supremacy, only a safeguard/insurance against aggression. And also note that ASEAN+ may ally with both US and China for the time being, for economic and security reasons.

Chinese military policy is always deterrent i.e asymmetric based on methods that can hurt the Americans whether directly or indirectly as they try to hurt them, it's not to have world dominance or using coercive force to influence other countries with military threat. There's of course certain red line that have to be protected at all cause, like the issue that deals with sovereignty, whether sea or land, and American interference can ignite certain nations to be more belligerent, some disputes might piss off certain countries like the Vietnam and the Philippines, or Japan but it's not like China is mobilizing to fight a war but rather protecting her own claims, it does however ignite nationalistic feelings from all sides, so even if there will not be war, it have serve it's purpose to instill nationalistic division within the Asian region, in that sense the USA did fulfill that short term goal, but as i explained earlier it will be the American worst nightmare should the region spiral into all out war to their economy, prestige, and military, it will be a flame that will drag them into the abyss along with it. For now America is playing the outsider that everyone can trust against the menacing Dragon because the USA have no claims to these areas whatsoever. In a sense the USA is like the cunning fox constantly trying to stir the pot, constantly planting misinformation to the Philippines and the Viets, and in the end backing out of the territorial disputes in the SCS, when at one time they claim there have a stake in it too. Now they are using these disputes nonetheless to strengthen their influence in Asia, sell more weapons, cement stronger political and economic ties, and create more divisions, they will play it to a point where war do not break out because unlike past wars they fought, this one will completely bring the Americans to their knees.

 

[Martian2]

That is a complete lie, Mongolian coal reserves is only 12 billion ton, China have at least 50 times more this amount, you see once you start lying you don't stop you make up bigger and bigger lies.

The rest of what you said as usual made no sense whatsoever, like a troll ranting.

Taking Mongolia will guarantee that idiotic bananas like you be persecuted in the USA, which you will not be missed, the world needs less retarded armchair generals like you.

China is still most likely to get into a conflict with the USA in the future, whether directly or causing trouble through American proxies, and the flashpoint is still most likely the South China Sea.

I said "estimated," not proven coal reserves. You're not reading my post carefully and getting the two mixed up. My posts are very precise.

If you don't populate defense forums with military enthusiasts/armchair generals, who would you populate it with? Peaceniks?

I keep telling you, China is a very conservative nation/society. Deng said, "keep your head low and hide your power." The U.S. is strongest on the high seas. I can almost guarantee there will be no military conflict in the South China Sea, because China is not ready.

I think China has just finished building only its sixth Type 052C AESA destroyer. The U.S. has 60 Arleigh-Burke destroyers. Chinese people aren't stupid. When you're outgunned, you annex Mongolia. That is the only rational military move.

Off-topic: If Sino-American relations deteriorate, I doubt I will be persecuted. I'm smart enough to shut the hell up and wave the flag. I'll volunteer for public service to burnish my credentials. Worst case scenario, I'll move to Canada for a while.

References:

Mongolia's awesome coal wealth

"In fact, there are dozens of coal mines in Mongolia with a combined estimated potential coal reserves of some 100 billion metric tons. Most of these reserves are ..."

Mongolia

"Mongolia is estimated to have potential coal reserves of some 100 billion metric tonnes. While Mongolia's output is approximately only ..."

Type 052C Class Destroyer hull numbers 5 and 6

Well I had this vague sense of discomfort about Martian2 and his ideas, thanks to Fantasy and his posts, we now know that China will not have a policy to annex little Mongolia, just to make the Qing map whole again. But if China wants to make Qing map whole, then some more areas from Russia will have to taken back also:

The Qing map is a rough guide. It is not to be followed literally. The Russians are too strong. They have lots of nuclear weapons. Those bits of Qing territory are not worth engaging the Russians.

Also, the Russians are a valuable ally. They provide strategic depth. Taking back those pieces of Qing territory may push the Russians into the NATO camp. That is a nightmare scenario and must be avoided at all costs.

 

[laman12345]

I fully support you Martian2

you are the best !!

 

[Diamond_Gold]

@Diamond_Gold

Internet and Wikipedia is not propaganda machine of Indian Government. you can search and read any "Neutral" source you want.we don't hide much of details unlike some of our neighbours.you can find very good books of foreign writers on these incident and find out details of those incident easily.so no need for these cheap comments.

Yeah again, only indians speak the truth in this world! LOLOL.

BTW, who are the neutral sources, by who's perception and benchmark?
Is the Netural sources = any sources that speak on and/or for the account of indians only. LOLOL.

Since indians are such perfect beings, may I have your divine answer to this simply question here, i.e. Is the annexation of the 7 sister states in NE india legitimate and morally correct?!!!

One can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but one can not fool all of the people all of the time. But Indians sure can nah, no problem nah! LOLOL.

 

[GR!FF!N]

Yeah again, only indians speak the truth in this world! LOLOL.

BTW, who are the neutral sources, by who's perception and benchmark?
Is the Netural sources = any sources that speak on and/or for the account of indians only. LOLOL.

Since indians are such perfect beings, may I have your divine answer to this simply question here, i.e. Is the annexation of the 7 sister states in NE india legitimate and morally correct?!!!

One can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but one can not fool all of the people all of the time. But Indians sure can nah, no problem nah! LOLOL.

lol...after lost your debate,now your are starting some gullible explanation.

i posted about what position india annexed those 2 states.and what you don't know that both India,Pakistan annexed many princely states and most of them only via diplomacy and politics.people fought decades with british not to be part of princely states but part of a democratic country.states like kashmir was a free state until 1948(when pakistan attacked kashmir) and india didn't have problem with that.do you even know about indian history????you should learn some before open your mouth and spit some more gullible logic..

thats your seven sister states..india never attacked them..

Seven Sister States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


and these are princely states(most of which is little bigger than a town)

List of Indian princely states - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

now read and learn how those are annexed by India and Pakistan.please educate yourself before making some more wild claim.

 

[Fantasy]

I said "estimated," not proven coal reserves. You're not reading my post carefully and getting the two mixed up. My posts are very precise.

If you don't populate defense forums with military enthusiasts/armchair generals, who would you populate it with? Peaceniks?

I keep telling you, China is a very conservative nation/society. Deng said, "keep your head low and hide your power." The U.S. is strongest on the high seas. I can almost guarantee there will be no military conflict in the South China Sea, because China is not ready.

I think China has just finished building only its sixth Type 052C AESA destroyer. The U.S. has 60 Arleigh-Burke destroyers. Chinese people aren't stupid. When you're outgunned, you annex Mongolia. That is the only rational military move.

Off-topic: If Sino-American relations deteriorate, I doubt I will be persecuted. I'm smart enough to shut the hell up and wave the flag. I'll volunteer for public service to burnish my credentials. Worst case scenario, I'll move to Canada for a while.

References:

Mongolia's awesome coal wealth

"In fact, there are dozens of coal mines in Mongolia with a combined estimated potential coal reserves of some 100 billion metric tons. Most of these reserves are ..."

Mongolia

"Mongolia is estimated to have potential coal reserves of some 100 billion metric tonnes. While Mongolia's output is approximately only ..."

Type 052C Class Destroyer hull numbers 5 and 6



The Qing map is a rough guide. It is not to be followed literally. The Russians are too strong. They have lots of nuclear weapons. Those bits of Qing territory are not worth engaging the Russians.

Also, the Russians are a valuable ally. They provide strategic depth. Taking back those pieces of Qing territory may push the Russians into the NATO camp. That is a nightmare scenario and must be avoided at all costs.

China is outgunned in the SCS? Please my wise Martian kindly list out the total naval assets the USA have in the pacific rim, the number of bases, the force composition, the number of missiles, the number of warships, and compare that to Chinese assets along the coast, within the Chinese heartlands, the manpower and the ability to mobilize very quickly between these areas. As I said before once the USA suffer destruction to all their bases within the pacific rim their naval assets will be worthless, it don't matter if they have all 11 Aircraft carriers within the South China Sea, if they could not sustain an attack or have no more bases left to refuel and lack the manpower and resources to rebuild or repair their assets quickly enough, and their aircraft could not penetrate Chinese airspace, the Americans will have no chance to resolve such conflict, the conflict will be resolved on China's term if it's fought within Chinese backyard, and this is an advantage China must absolutely keep if they are to survive, that is maintaining technological parity and never falling behind on progress. I am no peacenik, which is why I am saying China will strike out at American interest in the pacific should it come down to war and you should swallow the bullet over there in the States, but invading another country, and yes Outer Mongolia is now a sovereign country is out of question, it's only for a provocateur and coward like you to make. A first class moron like you don't get to decide anything, if there is a war between China and the USA, i hope you are prepared to face the consequences, maybe run to Africa or somewhere you will be safe to hide.

 

[Martian2]

China is outgunned in the SCS? Please my wise Martian kindly list out the total naval assets the USA have in the pacific rim, the number of bases, the force composition, the number of missiles, the number of warships, and compare that to Chinese assets along the coast, within the Chinese heartlands, the manpower and the ability to mobilize very quickly between these areas. As I said before once the USA suffer destruction to all their bases within the pacific rim their naval assets will be worthless, it don't matter if they have all 11 Aircraft carriers within the South China Sea, if they could not sustain an attack or have no more bases left to refuel and lack the manpower and resources to rebuild or repair their assets quickly enough, and their aircraft could not penetrate Chinese airspace, the Americans will have no chance to resolve such conflict, the conflict will be resolved on China's term if it's fought within Chinese backyard, and this is an advantage China must absolutely keep if they are to survive, that is maintaining technological parity and never falling behind on progress. I am no peacenik, which is why I am saying China will strike out at American interest in the pacific should it come down to war and you should swallow the bullet over there in the States, but invading another country, and yes Outer Mongolia is now a sovereign country is out of question, it's only for a provocateur and coward like you to make. A first class moron like you don't get to decide anything, if there is a war between China and the USA, i hope you are prepared to face the consequences, maybe run to Africa or somewhere you will be safe to hide.

Using its ballistic and 4,000km+ cruise missiles, China can indeed destroy all American military bases in Asia. However, there are still 60 American nuclear submarines that China has to worry about. Also, outside of the second island chain, the US Navy will rule supreme for the next twenty years.

I fail to see the geo-strategic benefit in tackling the American military head-on in Asia. No one attacks their best customer. Also, the US will make China pay in disrupted trade.

The US and China are two very different superpowers with different strengths. Every American action (e.g. Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, etc.) is based on hard military power. China Inc. is based on economic power.

Eventually, China Inc. should win the marathon contest because a much larger economy provides more resources for a nation's military. We are ten years away from the tipping point where the Chinese economy is the same size as the American economy.

However, military power is based on accumulated assets and technologies. This means China will need an additional ten years after economic parity to match U.S. military power. Therefore, China is at least twenty years away from matching U.S. military power.

Until that day, China must accommodate the U.S. whenever possible. This is the only rational choice. Rome is weakening, but it is still militarily supreme for the foreseeable future.

 

[atulya]

no one has restriction in dreaming and by the way we can also presume the same about Nepal and Sri Lanka.

 

[Juice]

America always has Canada and Mexico. (never let it be said I can't jump on a band wagon!)

 

[dbc]

America always has Canada and Mexico. (never let it be said I can't jump on a band wagon!)

I was thinking on the same lines invading Canada for maple syrup now makes sense. The US will control world supply and rule the world<<insert muhaha sound effect and lil finger in corner of mouth>>

 

[Juice]

Don't forget our lock on the world's tortilla supply!