Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[khanasifm]

Yes, just wishful thinking on my part.

Identified as the datalink pod for H4 (I have to admit didn't even think of it):

Never seen a pod with Fins ?? Typically fins are on something which is launched and travels ??
Anyway ...

Never seen a pod with Fins ?? Typically fins are on something which is launched and travels ??
Anyway ...

May be the pod has fins per the blurred image from the product Boucher

 

[GriffinsRule]

Never seen a pod with Fins ?? Typically fins are on something which is launched and travels ??
Anyway ...


View attachment 622236

May be the pod has fins per the blurred image from the product Boucher

Perhaps to help with aerodynamic flight characteristics of the aircraft such as breaking vortexes to form behind the stores/aircraft thus reducing performance. Fuel tanks have fins as well. They also might have a role when jettisoned in an emergency to avoid impact with the aircraft

 

[nomi007]

View attachment 622227 View attachment 622228 View attachment 622229 View attachment 622230

thanks for sharing

 

[mshan44]

 

[LKJ86]

JH 7 in my eyes will only be useful against Mirages if it could carry Heavy Long Range AshMs as compared to Mirages and will therefore will need to be highly escorted by Air Superiority Fighters

JH-7A with VLR AAM

 

[Blacklight]

Any news on the Egyptian Mirages? What happened to them?

 

[denel]

Never seen a pod with Fins ?? Typically fins are on something which is launched and travels ??
Anyway ...


View attachment 622236

May be the pod has fins per the blurred image from the product Boucher

Fins are blurred.
was away; finally off today and back to base tomorrow. it is a mess from the Covid. Extended out for another 3-4 weeks.
lot of good posts here. will try to read up. looks like lot of development on Mirage front

Any news on the Egyptian Mirages? What happened to them?

There is complete silence, it may be possible it never materialised. knowing EAF, someone else wanted a better cut.

w

Is that a buccaneer

Yes that is Buccaneer. Both Buccaneers and Canberras were designated for deep strike and carrying of atomic payloads.

If PAF really want its Mirage fleet to be stay in the air for another 10 years they need to change the OLD UNDER-POWERED TURBOJET-------One of the Members asked me About the RD-93 to replace the ATAR 9 and At the time I pointed about some of the Issues but it struck me that the Diameters are similar (1000 mm for ATAR 9) & (1040mm for the RD-93). RD 93 is significantly shorter which will allow for the 'New Fuel system/plumbing' and/or extra space to carry more fuel

South Africa is one of our major defense partners and They have the Experience with this Engine conversion as they did it for the Mirage F-1 and flew it about 70 times.

It got me thinking that the main challenges would be the re plumbing required and testing of the Turbofan with mirage DSI.

Now I know Mirage is a real sloppy flier at low speeds low altitude and heavy weights but with this new engine: if opted (highly unlikely.......Like super unlikely) some of the mirage are due for GV.


BUT FOR GIGGLES.


Benefits that some with the Rd-93 upgrade

Extended range (deep strike missions).
More Load capacity.
Highly improved flight characteristics (delta design is a very stable design--- but you need an engine).
More reliable and safer power plant.
More efficient in terms of fuel consumption.
400 kg space freed for what ever you want.
Rd 93 g shorter allows you for a whopping 1601 mm of free space or 681.19 feet^3 (volume).

Thrust
Increase in thrust up to +30% (and we all know what that means)-----with current engine Mirage 3 with full PAY load has a 0.45kn and in Combat configuration 0.62kn. With Rd-93 full PAY load will have 0.635Kn and Combat configuration it will have around 0.82-0.88Kn.



BUT than again mirage ONLY has the ability to carry only the weapons---Like RAAD and/or Raptor which as we know the JF-17 cannot because of lack of ground clearance and we know that the JF-17 can carry more weight than the Mirage--------BUT than again Mirage will be useful for deep strike role and Limited Air to Air------trust me PAF will need bomber in the future against India.

Cheers.



On a side note Say good bye to the new fighter thing.


Yes----Let the H2/H4 to be JF-17's Business.

Look RD33 was tested for upgrade if that was to done. To mount RD33 in replacement of Atar9c or 9k is very straightforward. Performance improvement is very very significant. However if an engine choice with minimal effort will be 9k and cost wise.

 

[Blacklight]

There is complete silence, it may be possible it never materialised. knowing EAF, someone else wanted a better cut.

True, Egyptians are notorious for it.

 

[denel]

Is Raptor III Subsonic or Supersonic?

subsonic.

Probably.

It does if put in contract. For H2/H4 some components were not ToT'ed because there is no lab which can fabricate those components.

This Mirage looks like it took steroids or something.

It is.

Also makes the aircraft unstable in flight. Couple that with a fly-by-wire system, drooping leading-edge, dog tooth, a higher-rated engine and a retractable IFR probe and you've got yourself a more maneuverable aircraft. Want to up it even more? Re-manufacture certain parts of the airframe with lighter materials and did what the Israelis did to increase internal fuel capacity and you've got a longer range. Let's go even further, upgrade remaining worthy airframes to ROSE and then further that with the upgrades @airomerix mentioned and now it's an infinitely more advanced aircraft. Want more? reinforce the wings and hard points to the chin or wing roots and you've got a bigger payload capacity. Theoretically, the biggest problem would be the age of the airframes, irl the biggest problem is money, which if we had, we wouldn't even have been talking upgrading older aircraft.

That is too much a wish list. you may then re-draw the entire plane.

We have our own jigs at MRF which undertake similar tasks of reinforcing the wings, rudder and. other surfaces. We have achieved significant capacity building in many areas such as we have been manufacturing glass canopies of Mirages, F-7s and JF-17s for years now.

We need expertise in the electronic aspect of the upgrade which is challenging to reverse engineer. We have absolutely no challenges with the structural integrity of the Mirages.



We stopped relying on Mirages for A2A after F-16s landed in early 80s It is simply not good enough now.

It still carries two sidewinders that too for self defense purposes (for the same reason why AH-1Z carries two sidewinders)

wings etc are not the same as re-doing the airframe. The new wings which were sent to PAF from atlas had new alum. alloys which were much lighter than the original - same alloy that was used for cheetah wings. Right now from my knowledge AMF is just patching the wings as required but cannot put a new wing complete - again it comes back to the frame alloys that are needed for the wing itself. We have a specialised output from the alum plants here that cater for such needs in the defence sector; they were also hit hard with TiT imposed tarriffs - the joke.. the biggest buyers were LM/Boeing.

I say we should be switching from H2/H4 to the Raptor III.

I think the Raptor III design draws on the Tariq/Umbani tech. So, I do think the end-user can modularize shorter-ranged versions, e.g., a 120 km with rocket-booster (like H4) and a 60 km range glider (like H2). Basically all from one new platform that can fit under the wings of the JF-17.

However, we can go a step further and truly go next-gen. If we can at least develop a simple low-cost miniature turbojet engine at home, we could make 120 km / 60 km versions that can cruise. So now, the JF-17s can offer H2/H4-like capability, but with low-altitude launch.

Actually core technology in both are the same. They came from same design team.

Why not putt Chinese engine WS13 or RD 93 engine instead of ATAR like Israel did with Mirage 5 after putting F4 engine called Nasher

Isreal's reason for J79 was different. first was to disengage French reliance; next use a commercial jet that had dual purpose. third same support as F4.

 

[Armchair]

Hi,

This man is so funny in his thought and writing---" it is not being manufactured ".

So---okay---Mirage 3 / 5 are not being manufactured---the saab aircraft for Paf are not being manufactured---.

B-52's B-1 bombers B-2 bombers are not being manufactured either---.

But the country using them has re-furbished the B52's and B-1 for further use for multiple decades to come---.

And the best of all---Quinine not being manufactured in all of the western world---.

I think PAF does not need the Jh7A but PN does. I think the wrong service has been testing the JH-7As to begin with.

 

[CT-9914 "Snoop"]

That is too much a wish list. you may then re-draw the entire plane.

Exactly what I did. Might post it here some time or in some fantasy aircraft thread.

 

[araz]

subsonic.


It does if put in contract. For H2/H4 some components were not ToT'ed because there is no lab which can fabricate those components.


It is.


That is too much a wish list. you may then re-draw the entire plane.


wings etc are not the same as re-doing the airframe. The new wings which were sent to PAF from atlas had new alum. alloys which were much lighter than the original - same alloy that was used for cheetah wings. Right now from my knowledge AMF is just patching the wings as required but cannot put a new wing complete - again it comes back to the frame alloys that are needed for the wing itself. We have a specialised output from the alum plants here that cater for such needs in the defence sector; they were also hit hard with TiT imposed tarriffs - the joke.. the biggest buyers were LM/Boeing.


Actually core technology in both are the same. They came from same design team.


Isreal's reason for J79 was different. first was to disengage French reliance; next use a commercial jet that had dual purpose. third same support as F4.

Good to see you back. The M3/5 upgradation has taken off although knowing PAF it will remain in the shadows till they want us to know about it.
A

 

[airomerix]

wings etc are not the same as re-doing the airframe. The new wings which were sent to PAF from atlas had new alum. alloys which were much lighter than the original - same alloy that was used for cheetah wings. Right now from my knowledge AMF is just patching the wings as required but cannot put a new wing complete - again it comes back to the frame alloys that are needed for the wing itself. We have a specialised output from the alum plants here that cater for such needs in the defence sector; they were also hit hard with TiT imposed tarriffs - the joke.. the biggest buyers were LM/Boeing..

I have actually seen wingless Mirages being retrofitted with fresh wings at MRF.

I'm not saying we are manufacturing these wings in house. But MRF does retain the expertise to resemmble the entire Mirage from scratch. This is why its called 'Mirage Rebuild Factory'. The same goes for F-7. In short, i think MRF does more than just repatching the wings.

 

[denel]

I have actually seen wingless Mirages being retrofitted with fresh wings at MRF.

I'm not saying we are manufacturing these wings in house. But MRF does retain the expertise to resemmble the entire Mirage from scratch. This is why its called 'Mirage Rebuild Factory'. The same goes for F-7. In short, i think MRF does more than just repatching the wings.

Yes zero hour wings were supplied by Atlas; i am sure more have made their way over as well.
Reassembling is being done there without doubt. But what we are speaking is the actual fabrication of the entire wing as well airframes. Wings at Atlas under go a rigorous stress test prior to being dismantled and packaged for shipment.

Good to see you back. The M3/5 upgradation has taken off although knowing PAF it will remain in the shadows till they want us to know about it.
A

Only for today Araz. Back on duty for next few weeks before being rolled off. The Covid situation been devastating here; on top we have a few renegade idiots via various electronic media disseminating bs; tracing the flipping source and getting resource to nab these guys for a good haircut in the slammer. complete prep for any riot situation etc.

It is good to see what is being done for the M3/M5. the radio upgrades are from my company on the M3/M5. and most likely a datalink may be there too.

 

[mingle]

Yes zero hour wings were supplied by Atlas; i am sure more have made their way over as well.
Reassembling is being done there without doubt. But what we are speaking is the actual fabrication of the entire wing as well airframes. Wings at Atlas under go a rigorous stress test prior to being dismantled and packaged for shipment.


Only for today Araz. Back on duty for next few weeks before being rolled off. The Covid situation been devastating here; on top we have a few renegade idiots via various electronic media disseminating bs; tracing the flipping source and getting resource to nab these guys for a good haircut in the slammer. complete prep for any riot situation etc.

It is good to see what is being done for the M3/M5. the radio upgrades are from my company on the M3/M5. and most likely a datalink may be there too.

World can't stand still like we are now sooner or later life will get back to normal with or without COVID 19 vaccine hold like we now for long gonna destroy everyone. So learn to live with Corona virus.