Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[fatman17]

But they have an ongoing dispute with the Chinese over the right to the SU27 family. When it comes to the options of either supplying engines or supplying the base platform I am sure the russians would want to export SU35. However I fully agree that whatever the platform chosen will have input from the Chinese to integrate the local avionics and weaponry to retain commonality with the rest of the PAF fleet if at all we see one.
A

I think the dispute has been settled. Russia cannot lose its largest weapons buyer.

 

[black-hawk_101]

I think the dispute has been settled. Russia cannot lose its largest weapons buyer.

But I think PAF might not being in a state to acquire SU-35s in any way.

All the Mirage III/Vs should be in Balochistan and KPK-FATA and F-7PG, JF-17s and F-16s should be in Sindh-Punjab. I am sure that as USA is releasing the 14 remaining F-16s and there is a good possibility that PAF will going to acquire more from Jordan, Egypt and Norway. The fleet of F-16 Block-15 MLU-3MLU-4 may reach to 150 + 50 F-16 Block-52+ (hopes that PAF will order another 32 more this year or near future)

I think this should be sold to BAF and induct more used F-16s from Jordan-Egypt-Norway-USAF

If JF-17s can't deploy those missiles then they can be transferred to PN for their Sea Kings which can fire those.

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Maritime security: Navy holds live firepower exercise - The Express Tribune

PNAF should use their old Missiles and Torpedoes against Pirates out there in sea coming from India and Africa.

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Now AOA which is roughly equivalent to 10 or 11 degree which I believe is normal for such low level fly pass (correct me If I am wrong)
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In my opinion video is 110% original .....

That's why I use to say send Mirages in Balochistan-FATA-KPK.

 

[araz]

I think the dispute has been settled. Russia cannot lose its largest weapons buyer.

Sir.
What are the chances of getting AL117S for these fighters. I understand that the Chinese would have to acquire them and then sell them on to us but the engine itself minus its 3 D TVC is a much more matured engine and would give the Chinese platforms a level of maturity which would be desirable.
A

 

[Quwa]

I have no doubt that the assembly line will not remain vacant post block 3 JFT. The real question is what will PAF invest in next. You have to understand that I still have serious doubts about PAFs capability to go solo after having just "participated" in the designing of JFT. The next generation of platforms are a whole different ball game and will bring with them problems which PAF is not familiar with. With 2 different platforms in the process the Chinese will possibly be unwilling to participate in a third one and the Turkish /South Koreans maybe willing but the cost might be unsavoury for the PAF. So the likelihood is PAF will go for a Chinese platform like J31 which CATIC may develop from hand me down tech transfer from the J20 project thereby saving time and money. This in my view might be more to PAFs taste rather than a newer platcorm full of its own inherent risks.
A

I agree. The JF-17 program will be around for a while and I am sure we will see some major iterations down the line, even in the era of 5th generation aircraft. Electronics will continue to advance at rapid rates, more so than airframe and engine technology, and there is no reason why the JF-17 wouldn't be able to take advantage of those shifts. The PAF may also experiment further with the JF-17 airframe, e.g. build a lighter and larger frame and use it as a basis for either a new lightweight fighter to replace the current JF-17 iteration (e.g. A/B to C/D), or, use it for specialized purposes, such as a dedicated ECM/EW or strike platform.

That said, I do think there is a chance we may see a locally developed next generation platform. I don't think the PAF would go at it alone, I think it'll be dependent on significant foreign assistance of some form, be it R&D or even industrial development, but it can happen. The rationale behind this route instead of a new JF-17 iteration may be a play to think really long-term and get ahead of the curb, but financing and the reality of risk will be impediments. I do wonder if CAC and SAC have other 5th gen designs, they must have toyed with lightweight single engine ideas. Remember, the JF-17 was one such program back in the day, it was the PAF that picked it up upon an offer from CAC.

Do not think PAF would go after more F-16's because the delivery would take them 5-7 years hence by that time the F-16's would have ex hosted the life of MLU. Now the F-16-blk 50/52 would also be requiring MLU. PAF would be interested in 5th Gen fighter by that time.

If PAF is offered F-35's then PAF might consider them as to replace some but not in very large numbers. However if the TFX is mature enough then PAF would choose it over the F-35's.

As far as Chinese J-31's or some other is concerned would also make it in PAF as per the policy of PAF it tends to rely on various sources rather than just one. Russia might also offer the PAK-FA or PAK-MA by that time, however would that deal would be availed is to be seen once PAF has inducted Russian Aircraft.

A stealth single engine aircraft would really be interesting because that aircraft would give PAF a low cost second line of defense... Which would this be is going to be finalized once conformation is received if such an option is available form China, Russia, USA, Sweden or a Pakistani aircraft.

JF-17 would not be enhanced to a stealth aircraft but a completely new aircraft would be manufactured so the cost would really be taken into consideration.

To spice up the competition may be the Turkish single engine design might be considered but that too is too early to say if that could be possibility or not.

I think PAF will pursue F-16s, new and upgraded surplus frames. The F-16 is an effective medium weight platform, and the PAF can obviously absorb A/B and C/D airframes. It would also be a financially affordable route. I don't know what is stopping them, but I think politics in D.C are an obstacle.

 

[gangsta_rap]

The initial posts from years back claim that Mir III Grifo M3 radars are copies of the APG-68 pulse dopplers (Which are used on Block 52+ and MLU F-16s !!!)

Is that really the case? Pretty cool if so. I guess we can say that ROSE mirages are on par with 4th generation fighters then!

 

[CHI RULES]

The initial posts from years back claim that Mir III Grifo M3 radars are copies of the APG-68 pulse dopplers (Which are used on Block 52+ and MLU F-16s !!!)

Is that really the case? Pretty cool if so. I guess we can say that ROSE mirages are on par with 4th generation fighters then!

Sorry but it is not only the Radar which makes a jet lethal. The mirages have past their life span and their systems are manual. They can't fly in adverse conditions further they are not agile enough, having no EW capabilities.
The specs of Grifo M3 are no ware near to APG68 neither claimed by PAF nor Italians.

May be they are only good for bombing TTP terrorists.

 

[umair86]

mirage has the all weather capablity even when it didn't had the ROSE upgrade. It was designed as an all weather high altitude interceptor it lacks the fly by wire controls and agilty as compared to jf-17 and f-16 but who needs to be agile when you are a bomb truck instead of fighter and have agile missiles to defend yourself.

 

[Ray_of_Hope]

mirage has the all weather capablity even when it didn't had the ROSE upgrade. It was designed as an all weather high altitude interceptor it lacks the fly by wire controls and agilty as compared to jf-17 and f-16 but who needs to be agile when you are a bomb truck instead of fighter and have agile missiles to defend yourself.

Before ROSE upgrade,Mirage 5 lacked the capability of night bombing.
As of now all marages we have are ROSE upgraded but they are too old to be in service now.Thats why we saw many Mirage crashes this year.
To be humble Mirages are not very capable aircrafts.Against IAF,they can counter the MIg 21`s in air to air role. and the jags in air to ground role.But they should be retired as early as possible cuz of their age.

 

[black-hawk_101]

I think PAF should start to acquire some used F-16s about 45 from Jordan.

 

[Ray_of_Hope]

I think PAF should start to acquire some used F-16s about 45 from Jordan.

I dont think so.F16 is a great jet but now its coming near the end of its time (especially the A/B ) models.We should not buy the olders models and only the new models should be bought.F16 is now turning out to be our new Mirages.Just as what we did with mirages now we are doing the same with vipers.And i dont think thats the right way to go.

 

[aliyusuf]

I think PAF should start to acquire some used F-16s about 45 from Jordan.

We should be cognizant of the fact that whatever we are saving today by getting older A/B air frames, we will be paying an even greater price when the need will arise to replace them. Which will be sooner than later comparatively speaking vis-à-vis acquiring newer built fighters like for instance (J-10B).

The initial posts from years back claim that Mir III Grifo M3 radars are copies of the APG-68 pulse dopplers (Which are used on Block 52+ and MLU F-16s !!!)

Actually no. The Grifo-M3 is roughly comparable to the first version of APG-68. The latter had a 25% range increase, additional modes, faster signal processing etc.compared to than the APG-66 of the Block-15 that the PAF had in service back in the 90s.

The Grifo-M3's performance is somewhere between those of the APG-66 and APG-68(V)1.

The APG-68(V)9 that equips our Block-52+ and MLU-ed Block-15 AMs/BMs are much more capable.

 

[Mutakalim]

All the Mirage III/Vs should be in Balochistan and KPK-FATA and F-7PG, JF-17s and F-16s should be in Sindh-Punjab

And the reason behind that?

 

[CHI RULES]

mirage has the all weather capablity even when it didn't had the ROSE upgrade. It was designed as an all weather high altitude interceptor it lacks the fly by wire controls and agilty as compared to jf-17 and f-16 but who needs to be agile when you are a bomb truck instead of fighter and have agile missiles to defend yourself.

latest Mirage III crash in Blochistan was due to adverse weather conditions even if it was capable for adverse conditions not so now. Mirages have manual conrols and lack EW suit, further without having BVR capabilities. They only have capability to bomb Terrorists not good for deep penetration missions in enemy territory. This may be checked by any pro if available here. The Jaguars on the other hand are being highly updated further they act in combination with other fighters. PAF don't have such luxury.

 

[silent hawk]

latest Mirage III crash in Blochistan was due to adverse weather conditions even if it was capable for adverse conditions not so now. Mirages have manual conrols and lack EW suit, further without having BVR capabilities. They only have capability to bomb Terrorists not good for deep penetration missions in enemy territory. This may be checked by any pro if available here. The Jaguars on the other hand are being highly updated further they act in combination with other fighters. PAF don't have such luxury.

Mirages have very committed pilots.

 

[black-hawk_101]

How many Mirages are in PAF?

Any Possibility of converting Older Mirage IIIs & Mirage Vs into spares?

So, that these spares can be used to support Rose Mirage IIIs & Mirage Vs in PAF fleet which are about 80 in numbers?