Can Phalcon AWACS + SU 30MKI Counter J20

[conworldus]

What does that have to do with the fact that this guy BSed about the J-20's RCs? We all know that T-50 does not have stealth shaping because the shaping problem is visible, but no one is making a prediction of its RCs.

Say that to Marting and Co. who rant about PAK FA RCS in the J-20 sticky in China defense sub section...... and BS about their imaginary figures.

 

[DARKY]

What does that have to do with the fact that this guy BSed about the J-20's RCs? We all know that T-50 does not have stealth shaping because the shaping problem is visible, but no one is making a prediction of its RCs.

Who says that you ??...... and your fellow type who don't even know A of the Microwave reflection and propagation..... and quote some BS form some nerd blog..... It amazes me how easily you say such things and blame others about making the same mistake..... that guy's assumptions were on just personal from his side..... atleast he didn't quote some nerd blogger and applied some logic there.

 

[below_freezing]

You would get to see the Upgraded MKI or the super MKI well before the J-20 enters low scale production.
We can Emphasis on that then...... but I would add here that SAP 518, SAP 14 plus 1650+ T/R Module rich AESA having Peak power ratings as high a 15-20kW and L-Band AESA on wings besides the rear facing radar would be the electronic upgrades for the MKI which would be powered by the all new AL-31FN-M3 engines having 4000+ hours life...... about J-20 I would expect to see the 1st PT of the Chinese AESA on board the 1st of the J-20 prototypes by that time...... and by the time the serial production starts on a commercial scale Most of the upgraded MKIs would be serving in the Air force..... going by the Chinese show up in the electronics department against Russians in weapon systems...... I would expect the ones mounted on MKI to have an edge till the 5th year after the joining of J-20 in PLAAF....... feel free to disagree !!

Russian electronics are sh!t. If they cannot make a microwave communication system as good as China can then the probability that they can make a better radar is pretty low. Not impossible, but low probability.

If their civilian RF antennas aren't that good then how can their military ones be exceptionally better?

 

[conworldus]

Who says that you ??...... and your fellow type who don't even know A of the Microwave reflection and propagation..... and quote some BS form some nerd blog..... It amazes me how easily you say such things and blame others about making the same mistake..... that guy's assumptions were on just personal from his side..... atleast he didn't quote some nerd blogger and applied some logic there.

Actually, this is the observation from U.S military think tanks. You fail.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Russian electronics are sh!t. If they cannot make a microwave communication system as good as China can then the probability that they can make a better radar is pretty low. Not impossible, but low probability.

If their civilian RF antennas aren't that good then how can their military ones be exceptionally better?

Yeah the first operational Electronically steered array radar was on the MiG 31 called Zaslon.

The 'Theory of stealth" was put forth by a Russian scientist Piotr Ufimtsev

The most advanced SAM system in the world the S 300 'Family' is made by Russia

The first people to have a Helmet mounted cueing system were the Russians in the MiG 29.

You Chinese have been looking at the Downgraded Russian-Soviet equipment and tell that Russian Electronics are crap.

You compare civillian RF antennae to Defence ones?..then lets say both are leagues apart. Most defence RF antennae are hand made.

 

[DARKY]

Russian electronics are sh!t. If they cannot make a microwave communication system as good as China can then the probability that they can make a better radar is pretty low. Not impossible, but low probability.

If their civilian RF antennas aren't that good then how can their military ones be exceptionally better?

Russians don't show off like Chinese....... I hope you got a reasonable reply from the post #50.
Chinese manufacturers copy and get help from Russian manufactureres and now they claim their to be better how can a downgraded copy better than the original one??

Take a few examples:

1. KLJ-10 radar,
2.PL-12/SD-10 seeker,
3.HQ series SAM seekers,
4.CJ-10 terrain mapping seeker,

There are many more name the weapon and there is some thing there which has to do with Russian electronics and you call them **** ??...... If that is shitt then what do you have doggy shitt ??

 

[April.lyrics]

take it easy,J-20 is still being tested.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

take it easy,J-20 is still being tested.

Well I am still waiting for the actual PAK-FA specs...and i also think that the J 20 will evolve more. It is too early to even start a discussion about which is going to be better.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Actually, this is the observation from U.S military think tanks. You fail.

Can you show me the source for this claim that you have made? I am a bit intrigued by this and want to read more about it.

 

[kingofkings]

take it easy,J-20 is still being tested.

Well I am still waiting for the actual PAK-FA specs...and i also think that the J 20 will evolve more. It is too early to even start a discussion about which is going to be better.

thanks a lot for making some sane comments ....

 

[Storm Force]

J20 will have to face off

intially PHALCON SU30MKI SUPER + RAFAEL

AND ULTIMATELY PAK FA SU30MKI & RAFALE WITH PHALCON.

Thats because j20 will not be a real plane until 2018

there will not be enough j20 until 2022 to use on indian attack

by 2022

IAF will have 6-awacs phalcons

250 su30mki super
125 rafael
50 pak fa fgfa

it will be good scrap

 

[airuah]

i think we should first wait to know the level of stealth that the J20 has ....what material that is available now are just speculative.....and for some people here stealth= invisilble....well that is not so.....

 

[sancho]

There are some exceptions sancho but you can't take them as a rule of thumb , if that would have been the case PAF with its F-6 in 1978 exercise shoot down USAF's then most potent fighter aircraft F-15 , has that made F-6 better than F-15? or will you with 100% confident put your all money on F-6 just because it has done once it can do it all again knowing that F-15 is a beast compared to F-6

It seems that you didn't get the point, because that example showed that a stealth fighter can be detected and shot down by a 4.5 gen fighter, if it has specific techs. Stealth might reduce the chance to detect it by radar and at very long ranges, but fighters emit also other signals, or signatures and which can be detected by modern EW systems, or other avionics.
I can't say at what distance an A50 Phalcon, or upgraded MKI might be able to detect a stealth fighter with their AESA radars systems, but they don't have only the radars, but credible EW capabilities as well.
Even PAFs Erieye has longer instrumental detection range, than radar detection range, which means it can detect other signals at greater distances, than the radar can. It might not be able to track the targets, or precisely identify them at those ranges, but it knows that something/someone is around. So a fighter with similar capabilities + IRST to detect IR signatures is able to detect and engage even a stealth fighter, but the stealth fighter of course is still in advantage.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

It seems that you didn't get the point, because that example showed that a stealth fighter can be detected and shot down by a 4.5 gen fighter, if it has specific techs. Stealth might reduce the chance to detect it by radar and at very long ranges, but fighters emit also other signals, or signatures and which can be detected by modern EW systems, or other avionics.
I can't say at what distance an A50 Phalcon, or upgraded MKI might be able to detect a stealth fighter with their AESA radars systems, but they don't have only the radars, but credible EW capabilities as well.
Even PAFs Erieye has longer instrumental detection range, than radar detection range, which means it can detect other signals at greater distances, than the radar can. It might not be able to track the targets, or precisely identify them at those ranges, but it knows that something/someone is around. So a fighter with similar capabilities + IRST to detect IR signatures is able to detect and engage even a stealth fighter, but the stealth fighter of course is still in advantage.

You are talking about passive detection systems. Well the problem with passive detection systems is not as accurate as the
active detection ones. Only the IR is used. Anyways even if the source is detected none of the missiles can home to the target without achieving a lock and A2A missiles are not advanced enough to do it.

And also a stealth is a Misnomer...I would rather call the fifth gen aircrafts as VLO in a particular frequency.

 

[sancho]

You are talking about passive detection systems. Well the problem with passive detection systems is not as accurate as the
active detection ones. Only the IR is used. Anyways even if the source is detected none of the missiles can home to the target without achieving a lock and A2A missiles are not advanced enough to do it.

That depends on the techs and imo the fact that it was a Growler and not a normal F18SH that made the kill tells us something about how it was able to detect and guide weapons. Also missiles today can be fired before they have a lock on the target, just by GPS data and mid course guidance of the fighter, or an AWACS for example and if the missile is close enough, it will get a lock itself.
That's why I said, a Rafale with full SPECTRA and FSO capabilities + the MICA IR / METEOR combo should be able to detect and engage targets even without radar detection, the question is at what ranges and will the opponent still have the first shot advantage?