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India May Expand Su-30MKI Order Beyond 272

PC-7 MK2 and HAWK MK.132 AJTs are already being delivered in large numbers- forget the false despair over the HJT-36 IJT, if it was never inducted the training regime for there IAF would be affected pretty much 0%.

Yes.. This is one right step ( though taken after considerable delays). I hope Next government acts more decisively on such matters. Its humiliating to see even PAF getting better training equipment than our air force.
 
Yes.. This is one right step ( though taken after considerable delays). I hope Next government acts more decisively on such matters. Its humiliating to see even PAF getting better training equipment than our air force.
What specifically are you talking about? Where is the IAF lacking to the PAF on the training front nowadays? The Hawk Mk.132 is arguably the most advanced subsonic AJT on the market, the PC-7 MK.2 is an excellent BTT and the IAF has the best full-mision ground simulators available to date...
 
having a large RCS is only a worry if you can be targeted, if you have powerful jammers that make getting s lock on you an issue then the entire paradigm changes. The USAF admitted as much in that infamous Red Flag 08 vid.

Not to forget the monster radar MKI itself carries. MKI can lock on any fighter except the 5th gen. ones and take the first shot.

Is there any news on Meteor AAM..?
 
having a large RCS is only a worry if you can be targeted, if you have powerful jammers that make getting s lock on you an issue then the entire paradigm changes. The USAF admitted as much in that infamous Red Flag 08 vid.
Here u are taking into account that enemy has inferior jammers,that defeats the purpose.

And mki has rcs of 7-10 m2,thats like huge.

And sap's are not the best jammers anyways
 
What specifically are you talking about? Where is the IAF lacking to the PAF on the training front nowadays? The Hawk Mk.132 is arguably the most advanced subsonic AJT on the market, the PC-7 MK.2 is an excellent BTT and the IAF has the best full-mision ground simulators available to date...

They are still getting inducted ( after we lost a good number of budding pilots primarly due to inadequate training ) and this is what I was referring to.

Not to forget we still dont have a credible LIFT which imo is must for operating complex machines like FGFA.
 
wow.. and 4000 posts no less.

read on the factors which affect rcs.
As I said we have to assume the enemy has competing jammers but not this much liability in terms of rcs.

The best solution is lower rcs with a good jammer,as simple as that.

And rafale has already been touted to get aesa jammers.
 
Rcs for mki cannot be reduced without use of a radar blocker and thats pretty tough to implement.

Jammers have no link with rcs
rcs is not a very big factor here and It can be taker care of. Eg- upgraded Mig-29s and Ks are said to be rcs with 5 times less than earlier variants.
 
They are still getting inducted ( after we lost a good number of budding pilots primarly due to inadequate training ) and this is what I was referring to.

Not to forget we still dont have a credible LIFT which imo is must for operating complex machines like FGFA.
Maybe lca mk1 would be used as Lift.
 
Its good. Why bother IAF with entirely new aircraft like Rafale when SU-30 with upgrade can perform almost every task.

Because Super Sukhoi also means:

- far higher operational costs because of even more heavy class fighters
- 3/4 of IAFs fleet of the next 30 to 40 years will be completely dependent on Russia, be it for upgrades, cost increases, or even weapons
- that IAF is limited to Russian and Indian weapons only, since no western manufacturer will allow to integrate advanced weapons to Russian radars and systems (especially with the recent issues between Russia and NATO)
- that HAL, or the Indian aero industry as a whole will not get any modern technology, or production input, the main reason for MMRCA (simple example is SAMTEL, that would keep producing some MFD's for MKIs, rather than modern IRST/electro optics, or HMS + most likely MFD's for Rafale)
- far less financial benefits for the Indian aero industry, because of the high offsets clauses of the MMRCA competition
...
...
...

You might not like the Rafale, but you can't argue against the reasons of MoD and IAF with MRCA / MMRCA wrt to industrial and tactical benefits.

Rcs for mki cannot be reduced without use of a radar blocker and thats pretty tough to implement.

Wrong, the RCS will be reduced pretty much the same way as it was reduced at the Su 35, or at the Mig 29Ks, by adding RAM coatings. The only difference that the Super 30 will then have to the Su 35, is the bigger cockpit section and the canards, which both adds to the RCS. But it still will be far lower than today and the advantange of not using big fuel tanks will remain an advantage for the Flankers anyway.
 
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Because Super Sukhoi also means:

- far higher operational costs because of even more heavy class fighters
- 3/4 of IAFs fleet of the next 30 to 40 years will be completely dependent on Russia, be it for upgrades, cost increases, or even weapons
- that IAF is limited to Russian and Indian weapons only, since no western manufacturer will allow to integrate advanced weapons to Russian radars and systems (especially with the recent issues between Russia and NATO)
- that HAL, or the Indian aero industry as a whole will not get any modern technology, or production input, the main reason for MMRCA (simple example is SAMTEL, that would keep producing some MFD's for MKIs, rather than modern IRST/electro optics, or HMS + most likely MFD's for Rafale)
- far less financial benefits for the Indian aero industry, because of the high offsets clauses of the MMRCA competition
...
...
...

You might not like the Rafale, but you can't argue against the reasons of MoD and IAF with MRCA / MMRCA wrt to industrial and tactical benefits.



Wrong, the RCS will be reduced pretty much the same way as it was reduced at the Su 35, or at the Mig 29Ks, by adding RAM coatings. The only difference that the Super 30 will then have to the Su 35, is the bigger cockpit section and the canards, which both adds to the RCS. But it still will be far lower than today and the advantange of not using big fuel tanks will remain an advantage for the Flankers anyway.

Anyone will disagree
The largest contribution to rcs are compressor blades,end of story.

Without radar blocker do whatever u want,u won't have much change

1-2 m2 sure,more than that?na
 
rcs is not a very big factor here and It can be taker care of. Eg- upgraded Mig-29s and Ks are said to be rcs with 5 times less than earlier variants.
That just makes for a fairytale reading,reality is pretty diff.
 
That just makes for a fairytale reading,reality is pretty diff.
That sir is said by russians and not me. If you don't want to believe anyone(especially the ones who are doing that job) except you then no point discussing anything as Its waste of time.
 
As I said we have to assume the enemy has competing jammers but not this much liability in terms of rcs.

The best solution is lower rcs with a good jammer,as simple as that.

And rafale has already been touted to get aesa jammers.

Not to get, it already does have ESA based jammers.
 
Anyone will disagree
The largest contribution to rcs are compressor blades,end of story.

If that would be true, the Su 35 and the Mig 29K / Mig 35 couldn't reduce their RCS either, since they don't have radar blockers and a straight air intake, but that is not the case. Logic alone should make you understand that the airframe of a fighter and any reflecting surface are the biggest contributers to the RCS, because these are the areas that would be effected at first by radar waves and from different angles. That's why untreated airframes, additional fins/canards, right angles or external payloads increases the RCS of a fighter and what the Russians countered by deleting canards from the original Su 35 design, by adding more internal fuel to the Mig 29 airframe or adding composites and RAM coatings.
 
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