India May Expand Su-30MKI Order Beyond 272

[Omega007]

@sancho @Dillinger @Abingdonboy

Don't you guys have something else to do.....I mean anything??Why do you guys keep wasting your time on the super man??Don't you guys know he already knows every damn thing??

 

[NKVD]

If that would be true, the Su 35 and the Mig 29K / Mig 35 couldn't reduce their RCS either, since they don't have radar blockers and a straight air intake, but that is not the case. Logic alone should make you understand that the airframe of a fighter and any reflecting surface are the biggest contributers to the RCS, because these are the areas that would be effected at first by radar waves and from different angles. That's why untreated airframes, additional fins/canards, right angles or external payloads increases the RCS of a fighter and what the Russians countered by deleting canards from the original Su 35 design, by adding more internal fuel to the Mig 29 airframe or adding composites and RAM coatings.

Hehehe @sancho I've tried To convince him Last month But Failed Put some Facts from Russian Defense Forums But Failed

 

[Dem!god]

Nope.
272 are simple ones,not super.

Deal for additional 42 has already been signed and they ain't super

buddy can u confirm this from any source.....
those additional 42 made the no. 272 ..I think....

 

[NKVD]

buddy can u confirm this from any source.....
those additional 42 made the no. 272 ..I think....

Yeah those 42 aircraft's are additional to previous 230 Ordered But they are Super variant See Wiki

 

[he-man]

@sancho @Dillinger @Abingdonboy

Don't you guys have something else to do.....I mean anything??Why do you guys keep wasting your time on the super man??Don't you guys know he already knows every damn thing??

Kid don't try sarcasm here.
Without radar blocker u cannot have a good rcs reduction,go and check any source to prove me wrong.

Mki has an rcs of 7-10 m2 and its a fact,now with ram and all it may go down to maybe 5-6 but still way to high

 

[he-man]

Yeah those 42 aircraft's are additional to previous 230 Ordered But they are Super variant See Wiki

All right quote any report that says they will be super?

 

[MilSpec]

Please mate, find anything that has at least a little bit of credibility! This report is nothing but speculation, based on total nonsense. The author is trying to create a link between raising air bases to procuring more MKIs, the problem is only, that the air bases are not raised only for MKI, but for LCA, Rafale or even FGFA as well and mainly depending on where IAF sees additional need of bases (east and south) and not specific fighter types.
Moreover we know that the MKI production line will be diverted after 2019 to produce the FGFA, the whole point of adding the additional MKIs, was to extend the production line since FGFA is delayed and isn't available from 2017 onwards as earlier planned. Not to mention that by 2019 even LCA MK2 (hopefully) would be available for induction, let alone Rafale.

Edit: An older screenshot I saved from the HAL connect 65 issue:

http://s1.directupload.net/images/130412/wgn47ef3.jpg

Hope full I will be still around for next few years..... If I do win you own me a good bottle of scotch... and vice versa....

 

[Agent_47]

@sancho @Dillinger @Abingdonboy

Don't you guys have something else to do.....I mean anything??Why do you guys keep wasting your time on the super man??Don't you guys know he already knows every damn thing??

Yes , the radar guy ! brings up AESA in every thread.

 

[he-man]

Yes , the radar guy ! brings up AESA in every thread.

I did not start making false claims here.

Truth hurts and it has hurt lot of posters here who want drastic rcs reduction of mki with ram alone.

Then some are saying last 42 mki ordered are of super standard which they are not.

Then some want zhuk ae in mki not realising that ae has just 640 t/r elements made with size of mig-29 in mind.

Some are calling irbis e as aesa


But no I am the usual suspect here.

Reminds me of a certain discussion I had with @Dillinger last year on drdo aesa.my prediction was spot on and that aesa is still incomplete and may never power lca.then also ppl were going crazy not realising how incompetent drdo really is.

well if mki was so capable then why the hell are we going crazy for rafale.?

Because it has its share of flaws that can never be removed.even a klj-7 radar of jf-17 can spot mki from 100 km,same as apg-69 of f-16



But as usual some blind nationalists insist on looling the other way around,making tall claims just like any jingoistic pakistani forum member here.

Face the facts people

 

[Dillinger]

I did not start making false claims here.

Truth hurts and it has hurt lot of posters here who want drastic rcs reduction of mki with ram alone.

Then some are saying last 42 mki ordered are of super standard which they are not.

Then some want zhuk ae in mki not realising that ae has just 640 t/r elements made with size of mig-29 in mind.

Some are calling irbis e as aesa


But no I am the usual suspect here.

Reminds me of a certain discussion I had with @Dillinger last year on drdo aesa.my prediction was spot on and that aesa is still incomplete and may never power lca.then also ppl were going crazy not realising how incompetent drdo really is.

well if mki was so capable then why the hell are we going crazy for rafale.?

Because it has its share of flaws that can never be removed.even a klj-7 radar of jf-17 can spot mki from 100 km,same as apg-69 of f-16



But as usual some blind nationalists insist on looling the other way around,making tall claims just like any jingoistic pakistani forum member here.

Face the facts people

IF the Zhuk FCR were to be adapted for the MKI then the element count would go up on its own. To put it rather simply.

As for the DRDO, it was made rather clear that any AESA FCR is at the least five years away.

But that "conversation" was not limited to AESA FCRs, it centered around AESA sensors, of which you were provided with multiple examples including the LSTAR system of which two samples are currently undergoing certification and clearance for our indigenous AEW&C assets.

As for the MKI.

1) A "radar blocker" is required if the aim is to reach LO rated performance in terms of RCS reduction (in conjunction with other attributes, on a platform engineered for LO from the get go), this has never been the case for the MKI. Any moderate RCS reduction is meant to be a logical upgrade meant to provide benefits in conjunction with the other envisioned upgrades.

2) The MKI like any other prime strike platform does have a "large" RCS, it more than makes up for it. It is the manner in which it is utilized within our air combat doctrine that makes it lethal. If you are expecting it to run deep penetration strikes within an active ADGE without encountering any hostile action then nothing short of the Raptor can fill that role (although said platform would have a hard time hitting anything well fortified, unless you imagine a SDB bursting a bunker or sinking a ship). On the other hand that same platform carrying the klj-7 FCR will have a hard time matching the kinematic performance, hitting power or persistence of the MKI, these things make a tremendous difference.

The repeated issue with most posters here is that they imagine air combat to occur in some isolated space devoid of context, where two fighters appear out of nowhere and start looking for each other with their FCRs to try and get off a shot. It does not work that way.

 

[Omega007]

IF the Zhuk FCR were to be adapted for the MKI then the element count would go up on its own. To put it rather simply.

As for the DRDO, it was made rather clear that any AESA FCR is at the least five years away.

But that "conversation" was not limited to AESA FCRs, it centered around AESA sensors, of which you were provided with multiple examples including the LSTAR system of which two samples are currently undergoing certification and clearance for our indigenous AEW&C assets.

As for the MKI.

1) A "radar blocker" is required if the aim is to reach LO rated performance in terms of RCS reduction (in conjunction with other attributes, on a platform engineered for LO from the get go), this has never been the case for the MKI. Any moderate RCS reduction is meant to be a logical upgrade meant to provide benefits in conjunction with the other envisioned upgrades.

2) The MKI like any other prime strike platform does have a "large" RCS, it more than makes up for it. It is the manner in which it is utilized within our air combat doctrine that makes it lethal. If you are expecting it to run deep penetration strikes within an active ADGE without encountering any hostile action then nothing short of the Raptor can fill that role (although said platform would have a hard time hitting anything well fortified, unless you imagine a SDB bursting a bunker or sinking a ship). On the other hand that same platform carrying the klj-7 FCR will have a hard time matching the kinematic performance, hitting power or persistence of the MKI, these things make a tremendous difference.

The repeated issue with most posters here is that they imagine air combat to occur in some isolated space devoid of context, where two fighters appear out of nowhere and start looking for each other with their FCRs to try and get off a shot. It does not work that way.

Nice one but futile sir.Because the particular member your reply was directed to is THE know all be all of PDF Indian Defence section and according to him everyone except him is wrong,no matter how much irrefutable a logic or a proof you provide to substantiate your view point.

So again sir,you've have pretty much wasted your time (although the content of your post was quite on the mark and makes a lot of sense).

 

[surya kiran]

Nice one but futile sir.Because the particular member your reply was directed to is THE know all be all of PDF Indian Defence section and according to him everyone except him is wrong,no matter how much irrefutable a logic or a proof you provide to substantiate your view point.

So again sir,you've have pretty much wasted your time (although the content of your post was quite on the mark and makes a lot of sense).

Well to give it to him, he finally realised that the Rafale was the right choice after, I think, 3 months of explanations

 

[IND151]

This isn't true, the 42 ordered ARE to be Super standard, the Super upgrade has all but been finalised. HAL are already testing most of the modifications in their facilitates like the new Cockpit, sensors etc

These 42 birds will be Super MKIs.

Out of these 2 will be needed to replace (actually we need 3) to replace the birds which have crashed; but it doesn't make sense to order 40 Super MKIs and 2/3 normal MKIs (though upgraded).

This is because, I believe, IAF will order/ have at least 60 Super MKIs having having capacity to launch 2.55 ton Brahmos.

The rest MKIs can be armed with Brahmos M.

 

[he-man]

Nice one but futile sir.Because the particular member your reply was directed to is THE know all be all of PDF Indian Defence section and according to him everyone except him is wrong,no matter how much irrefutable a logic or a proof you provide to substantiate your view point.

So again sir,you've have pretty much wasted your time (although the content of your post was quite on the mark and makes a lot of sense).

dude u are new here,u haven't seen the marathon discussions i had on rafale,su-30,su-35 and mig-29 last year with almost everyone here.back in the day i did not know whats msa,esa,pesa,aesa etc but i know some shit now.

seeing ur posts u look some kind of a person who is unaware of where we actually stand in the field of defence,what are our capabilities etc.u are behaving just like the pakistanis ho claim they can beat india any day.similarly u believe that chinese are just copying stuff and not innvoting at all.thats a typical attitude of a blind nationalist who is unaware of actual realities. i suggest u not to quote me here again and again but move on,that would be best.
if u don't like what i say,just don't quote me!!as simple as that.i don't want any useless dog fighting here

and my source is not some mumbo jumbo indian blog but translated russian sites so yeah what i say will be painful to lot of people like u but i am not here to gloat over the few successes we have had but to deliberate on the failures that we are encountering.

These 42 birds will be Super MKIs.

Out of these 2 will be needed to replace (actually we need 3) to replace the birds which have crashed; but it doesn't make sense to order 40 Super MKIs and 2/3 normal MKIs (though upgraded).

This is because, I believe, IAF will order/ have at least 60 Super MKIs having having capacity to launch 2.55 ton Brahmos.

The rest MKIs can be armed with Brahmos M.

i am genuinely interested in finding a single source of news confirming this.

 

[sancho]

Hope full I will be still around for next few years..... If I do win you own me a good bottle of scotch... and vice versa....

Hehe, I also hope that we both stick around here for quiet some time, but the "wishes" about 300+ MKIs should be based on more than just some theories of the media, or personal likes and dislikes for a fighter.
I like the MKI too and will continue to show all those that want Su 35s, what we already have with the MKI and what we can get with the upgrades. But the fact remains, that IAF and MoD had several reasons why they wanted MMRCA and not simply more MKIs, just like we already know when the MKI production at HAL is meant to end of for what reasons. So we can't simply ignore these facts, only because we like the MKI!