Can Phalcon AWACS + SU 30MKI Counter J20

[rcrmj]

Right......and what do old Chinese SU-27SK's piloted by Chinese pilots have anything to do with the SU-30MKI? The SU-30MKI would absolutely spank the SU-27SK in maneuverability. Moreover, the two aircraft have completely different avionics suits, so again what is your point?

Close in dog fighting also has more to do with the pilot and less to do with the aircraft. This can be seen during the Israeli Arab wars, as well as exercises. For example Russian Air Force Mig-29's faced Mig-23's, as we all know the Mig-29 is superior in maneuverability to the Mig-23, in fact it is superior to maneuverability to just about any aircraft, the Mig-29's avionics were also far superior to that of the Mig-23 yet the improbable happened--the highly experienced Mig-23 pilots somehow, against all odds managed to achieve Mig-29 kills. It just shows what the right pilots can do.

Our pilots would be more than happy to show off the SU-27's true capability, we have done it against US Air Force F-15's and we would be happy to do it against your J-10.

PLAAF has Su-27 as well as Su-30MKK, and Su-30MKI is not a dedicated air-superiority fighter which is fact. just like the differences between F-15A, F-15C air-superior fighter and F-15E as stricker````even though F-15E has much better avionics than A/C versions but its AA capacitiy is compromised.

MkI is bacially a improvement of Su-27's oboselet avionics and radars, in terms of thrust it merely increased 0.03 but its wing loading is 8.08% more than Su-27 and its weight is 2,000KG over SK, even though MKI uses quite a few composite materials. so its top speed is 1.9 compared to original Su-27's mach 2.35

but no one question the potency of MKI, but my reply merely to the clueless claim that MKI is superior to any Chinese current fighter.

 

[ptldM3]

PLAAF has Su-27 as well as Su-30MKK, and Su-30MKI is not a dedicated air-superiority fighter which is fact. just like the differences between F-15A, F-15C air-superior fighter and F-15E as stricker````even though F-15E has much better avionics than A/C versions but its AA capacitiy is compromised.

The SU-30, more particularly the SU-30MKI is as close as a multirole aircraft as one can get. It can perform air superiority just as well as it can perform ground strike missions. It's radar as well as its armament is optimized for air superiority, it's maneuverability is also a factor. There are several aspects that make the MKI a true multirole aircraft that can perform both air-to-air as well as air-to-ground. As mentioned radar, weapons, and maneuverability insures that it can perform air superiority, other factors such as its impressive jammer, data-link, HMS, ect will insure that the MKI is competitive. In terms of strike missions the MKI has great range and weapons payload, but the real factor is its avionics, the MKI can operate day or night. Its Litening targeting pod is used by everyone from the US, to Israel, to the UK--it's very good. The MKI's weapons system operator insures that targets are hit with precision, the weapons system operator also controls the EW equipment insuring better battle field survivability, and the MKI can carry a wide range of both air-to-air as well as air-to-ground munitions. You would think that all aircraft have or had this luxury but it isn't so, some aircraft are only built with one mission in mind.

MkI is bacially a improvement of Su-27's oboselet avionics and radars, in terms of thrust it merely increased 0.03 but its wing loading is 8.08% more than Su-27 and its weight is 2,000KG over SK, even though MKI uses quite a few composite materials. so its top speed is 1.9 compared to original Su-27's mach 2.35

Of course, the MKI is an improvement over the SU-27SK in avionics. It's TVC, as well as Canards also give it an unfair advantage over the basic SU-27.

but no one question the potency of MKI, but my reply merely to the clueless claim that MKI is superior to any Chinese current fighter.

No doubt that China can produce comparable aircraft.

 

[desimorty]

PLAAF has Su-27 as well as Su-30MKK, and Su-30MKI is not a dedicated air-superiority fighter which is fact.

The Su-30MKI is capable as a multirole aircraft with out compromising the air to air role. Hence the TVC engines. The IAF first tested the Su-30MK and found that compared to the Mig-29 was not as nimble. The result was a different solution offered by Russia in the form of MKI.

MkI is bacially a improvement of Su-27's oboselet avionics and radars, in terms of thrust it merely increased 0.03 but its wing loading is 8.08% more than Su-27 and its weight is 2,000KG over SK, even though MKI uses quite a few composite materials. so its top speed is 1.9 compared to original Su-27's mach 2.35

but no one question the potency of MKI, but my reply merely to the clueless claim that MKI is superior to any Chinese current fighter.

Yes the MKI used the latest technology available off the self during the time in terms of avionics. Avonics is very important in the air. Hence the kill ratio of the F-15's. I'm not arguing about smaller RCS and lower weight of the the J-10. Perhaps the J-10 can have a greater acceleration, we don't know, we do know they use the same engines so spool time? Lower wingloading? The j-10 has a lower wing loading, meaning its better at sustained turns which makes sense but if I applied your logic, then you can expect the Tejas to score better than the J-10 being lighter, smaller etc...
One thing that comes from being a larger aircraft is that you can have more electronics. Look at the Su-30MKI speed again. Its 1.9 because of the forward canards located at the front.
BTW the J-10 has a higher wing loading than the JF-17 and Tejas. My two cents.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Depends on the passive sensors of the Su 30 MKI. And EW jamming. It is highly unlikely for it to happen and that is why the Pak-FA is there for it.

 

[Rank]

After read few post in this thread... I think 1 SU30 shotdown 100 F18, 20 B52, 20 J20, 50 EU, 100 200 F16, 500 Mirage at a time LOLZzzzzzzzzz

oh ............ SU30 first kill me.. I AM STEALTH!!!!!!! check out your P.AWACS ... your Phalcon detect me or not ?? i am also Stealth but without Radar and after 4 Km running everyday my RCS reduce !

 

[indianspetsnaz]

After read few post in this thread... I think 1 SU30 shotdown 100 F18, 20 B52, 20 J20, 50 EU, 100 200 F16, 500 Mirage at a time LOLZzzzzzzzzz

oh ............ SU30 first kill me.. I AM STEALTH!!!!!!! check out your P.AWACS ... your Phalcon detect me or not ?? i am also Stealth but without Radar and after 4 Km running everyday my RCS reduce !

the MKI is arguably the best aircraft in all of Asia as it is the de facto best aircraft in South Asia in fact your Jang newspaper got rattled when we placed a sqdn of MKI's in Rajastan 5 minutes away from Indo-Pak border and claimed we were preparing for conventional war

whether you accept it or not MKI is definitely one of the top 5 fighter aircraft in the world today its RCS may be a problem but the upgrades that will make it a 4.8 close to 5th gen fighter jet with reduced RCS due to significant airframe changes and addition of RAM

 

[newdelhinsa]

The combo can counter F-22 any given day, J-20 is still a fiction.

 

[indianspetsnaz]

EFT typhoons were in joint exercises with MKI's RAF pilots who flew in the EFT candidly said the MKI had preformed better than them in the exercise this proves the fighter and as well as IAF pilot skills are among the best and better than that of a great power with a potent fighter jet btw EFT is considered to be the 2nd best fighter jet today after the F-22 it like what ptldm3 said its not just about the fighter but also the person flying the fighter but when you have a good pilot in a good fighter jet its an obvious aerial victory in the making

 

[rissriva]

the high lighted part doesnt hold any ground but some Sukhios slogans only naive people would believe that``Su-30MKI is multi-role fighter which means it can do all a bit, but not best of them all```like F-22 is dedicated for air-dominance so there is no question of its supeirority in the air``so does Chinese J-10```

Since J-10 inducted in large number, there are countless drills between J-10s and Su-27SK, Su-30 and J-11 (early Su-30 modification)``and the result is rather diturbing to those units that equipted with Sukhio fighters.. the report submitted by those units pointed out that several problems Sukhio fighters have up against J-10s,
1. i cannot track J-10 as far as J-10 can track them
2. difficult to have a solid lock due to the small RCSs
3. J-10 has much superior electronic suits or dedicated electromic suits to deal with Sukhio fighters
4. in a dog fight J-10 simply out maneuver Sukhio fighters
5. even the top speed of Sukhios are faster than J-10, but due to the smaller and lighter size of J-10, which enables it accelerates much faster

so the situation is always they neither can out-run J-10s nor escaping the chasing.

this is the picture of 2 J-10s up against 6 Su-27

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and J-11B and J-15 is not reverse engineering of Su-27 families```they are totally different in terms of inside, mertials and electrics used on board``but identical airframe

Well, again you are just proving me right only by your arguments. I never compared Su30 MKI with Raptor but with China's Fighter Aircraft. But SU 30 Mki can easily dominate any of the JF 17, J10, J11 B in China's inventory.

Su30 Mki is the most the most advanced in the flanker series with heavy inputs from Israel, way ahead of Su 27, Su 30 Mkk and of course reverse engineered J11. So if you you show me a pic where you pit 2 J-10s up against 6 Su-27, well that never will give you exacts simulation of pitting against Su 30 Mki.

And.'' and J-11B and J-15 is not reverse engineering of Su-27 families```they are totally different in terms of inside, mertials and electrics used on board``but identical airframe '' well this is what I argued, Its easy to reverse engineer the Design but not the composition of material.

 

[tvsram1992]

Remove Phalcons,only Sukhoi Su 30 MKI Super can counter J20 .

 

[INDTAM]

In 2004 India inked a deal with Russia to domestically produce the Novator K-100 missile for its Su-30MKI fighters. The Novator K-100 missile is designed to shoot down AWACS and other C4ISTAR aircraft whilst keeping the launch platform out of range of any fighters that might be protecting the target.

Although not initially designed to carry nuclear or strategic weapons, the IAF will receive 40 upgraded Su-30MKIs capable of carrying the BrahMos cruise missile possibly by 2012.

India is planning to upgrade its Su-30MKI fighters with Russian Phazotron Zhuk-AE Active Electronically Scanned Array AESA radars. The X-band radar can track 30 aerial targets in the track-while-scan mode and engage six targets simultaneously in attack mode. AESA technology offers improved performance and reliability compared with traditional mechanically scanned array radars. Indian Defense Minister A.K Antony proposed several upgrades for the Su-30MKI to the Indian Parliament, which included fitting the fighters with Russian Phazotron Zhuk-AE AESA radars starting in 2012.

Radar

The forward-facing NIIP N011M Bars (Panther) is a powerful integrated passive electronically scanned array radar. The N011M is a digital multi-mode dual frequency band radar. The N011M can function in air-to-air and air-to-land/sea mode simultaneously while being tied into a high-precision laser-inertial or GPS navigation system. It is equipped with a modern digital weapons control system as well as anti-jamming features. N011M has a 350 km search range and a maximum 200 km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere.The radar can track 15 air targets and engage 4 simultaneously. These targets can even include cruise missiles and motionless helicopters. The Su-30MKI can function as a mini-AWACS as a director or command post for other aircraft. The target co-ordinates can be transferred automatically to at least four other aircraft. The radar can detect ground targets such as tanks at 40–50 km. The Bars radar will be replaced by Zhuk-AESA in the last batch of 40 aircraft.

Avionics
OLS optical detection pod used on Sukhoi aircraft.
Laser-optical locator system

OLS-30 laser-optical locator system to include a day and night FLIR capability and is used in conjunction with the helmet mounted sighting system. The OLS-30 is a combined IRST/LR device using a cooled, broader waveband, sensor. Detection range is up to 90 km, whilst the laser ranger is effective to 3.5 km. Targets are displayed on the same LCD display as the radar.

LITENING targeting pod

Israeli LITENING targeting pod is used to target the laser guided munitions. Litening incorporates in a single pod all the targeting features required by a modern strike fighter. The original Litening pod includes a long range FLIR, a TV camera, a flash-lamp powered laser designator, laser spot tracker for tracking target designated by other aircraft or from the ground, and an electro-optical point and inertial tracker, which enabled continuous engagement of the target even when the target is partly obscured by clouds or countermeasures. The pod integrates the necessary laser rangefinder and designator, required for the delivery of Laser Guided Bombs, cluster and general purpose bomb.

Electronic countermeasures

Sukhoi Su-30MKI has electronic counter-measure systems. The RWR system is of Indian design, developed by India's DRDO, called Tarang, (Wave in Sanskrit). It has direction finding capability and is known to have a programmable threat library. The RWR is derived from work done on an earlier system for India's MiG-23BNs known as the Tranquil, which is now superseded by the more advanced Tarang series. Elta EL/M-8222 a self-protection jammer developed by Israel Aircraft Industries is the MKI's standard EW pod, which the Israeli Air Force uses on its F-15s. The ELTA El/M-8222 Self Protection Pod is a power-managed jammer, air-cooled system with an ESM receiver integrated into the pod. The pod contains an antenna on the forward and aft ends, which receive the hostile RF signal and after processing deliver the appropriate response.

Propulsion
The tail section of the Su-30MKI showing the TVC nozzles and horizontal stabilizers.
Tail section of the Su-30MKI, the deflected nozzles, and the horizontal stabilizer.

The Su-30MKI is powered by the two Al-31FP turbofans, each rated at 12,500 kgf (27,550 lbf) of full afterburning thrust. These by-pass, thrust-vectoring engines push the aircraft up to mach two in horizontal flight (about 2450 km/h at ground-level) and give a rate of climb of 230 m/s. The mean time between overhaul for the AL-31FP is given at 1,000 hours with a full-life span of 3,000 hours. The titanium nozzle has a mean time between overhaul of 500 hours. Al-31FP builds on the Al-37FU with the capability to vector in two planes. The Thrust Vectoring nozzles of the MKI are mounted 32 degrees outward to longitudinal engine axis (i.e. in the horizontal plane) and can be deflected ±15 degrees in the vertical plane. This produces a cork-screw effect, thus enhancing the turn capability of the aircraft. There is no strain-gauge engine control stick to change the engine thrust in the cockpit, rather just a conventional engine throttle control lever. The pilot controls the aircraft with help of a standard control stick. On the pilot's right there is a switch which is turned on for performing difficult maneuvers. After the switch-over, the computer determines the level of use of aerodynamic surfaces and swiveling nozzles and their required deflection angles.

Aerodynamics
Two Su-30MKIs during a Thach Weave maneuver.
Su 30 MKI opens it's Parachute and Air Brakes while Landing at Yelahanka Air Force Base Bangalore during Aero India 2011.

Su-30MKI aerodynamic configuration is an unstable longitudinal triplane. The canard increases the aircraft lifting ability and deflects automatically to allow high angle-of-attack (AoA) flights allowing it to perform Pugachev's Cobra. The integral aerodynamic configuration combined with thrust vectoring results in extremely capable maneuverability, taking off and landing characteristics. This high agility allows rapid deployment of weapons in any direction as desired by the crew. The canard notably assists in controlling the aircraft at large angles-of-attack and bringing it to a level flight condition. The wing will have high-lift devices featured as deflecting leading edges, and flaperons acting as flaps and ailerons

 

[Jungibaaz]

Remove Phalcons,only Sukhoi Su 30 MKI Super can counter J20 .

Phalcon AWACS is your best bet of detecting J-20.
Super MKI alone wouldn't cut it.

 

[karan.1970]

Phalcon AWACS is your best bet of detecting J-20.
Super MKI alone wouldn't cut it.

Cant say either way till its operational specs are known.. As of now, everything is a guess.. For all you know, it might even be invisible to the AWACS.. or on the other hand even MKI may be able to detect it far enough..Lets cross that bridge when we get to it..

 

[rcrmj]

Remove Phalcons,only Sukhoi Su 30 MKI Super can counter J20 .

this is peur fiction, without AWACs 4th gen has very little chance against 5th gen fighters... the modern warfare is system fighting system, not like WWI which is weapon vs weapon.

MKI is not the super doper plane as advertised by Sukhoi...west and America still leads in Avionics, radar and systematic platform development.

 

[tvsram1992]

this is peur fiction, without AWACs 4th gen has very little chance against 5th gen fighters... the modern warfare is system fighting system, not like WWI which is weapon vs weapon.

MKI is not the super doper plane as advertised by Sukhoi...west and America still leads in Avionics, radar and systematic platform development.

but it defeated American planes