Can Phalcon AWACS + SU 30MKI Counter J20

[drunken-monke]

Well if they can open a thread abt su-30 vs f-22 , why not JXX....LOL

Gods gift to aviation =SU-30 ALL HAIL.


Though PAF F-16s picked it up on their radars... so what... LOL

Dude its not Vs thread.. Its just a senario whether we can counter a superior adverary with what we have got??

 

[Laughing_soldier]

We need a much more powerful AESA radar on MKI. We already have a network of radar systems but we need more powerful radars like Aerostat and satellite early warning.


Those have more powerful radars and weapons will have the kills.


We need RVV-BD on MKI

Future MKI:

The upgrade will include a new cockpit, an upgraded radar and advanced stealth characteristics to make the plane less visible to enemy radar. Fedorov said the 'Super Sukhoi' will be a potent aircraft similar in features to a fifth generation aircraft.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...ed-fifth-generation-fighters.html#post2038382

 

[Major Shaitan Singh]

There may be other question like how Indian will counter J 20 with the current capability without FGFA.
what assest it can deploy to counter it or would it be sitting duck for J20.


SU 30MKI + Phalcon + S300V
or
MMRCA+ Phalcon + S300V

 

[sancho]

Haha---I've heard enough crap from SU30MKi fans - now comes another joke - SU30 can shot down 5th Generation Fighters!!

Is it that unbelievable?

I asked the pilot: What's that aircraft decal on the fuselage?

"That's an F-22," he said.

Well, why is it there?

"Because this is the EA-18G that killed an F-22," he explained.

...I did learn the EA-18G kill was courtesy of a well-timed AIM-120 AMRAAM shot. And I learned the simulated combat exercise took place at Nellis AFB. How the EA-18G escort jammer got the shot, and whether its jamming system played a role in the incident were not questions the pilot was prepared to answer.

Growler Power: EA-18G boasts F-22 kill (PHOTOS) - The DEW Line


We know that IAF has some Russian, Indian and Israeli options to divert the MKI into an EW version as well and that imo is the key to detect a stealth fighter. Radar even of an AWACS aircraft will detect it way too less, but capable ESM/ECM capabilities, might detect other signals of the fighter from long distances.
Personally, I would give Rafale with SPECTRA and it's MICA IR / METEOR combo a better chance than MKI at the moment, but lets see what the upgrade will bring.

 

[Mani2020]

Dear All

I would like to know how Phalcon AWACS + SU 30MKI can Counter J20 with Modern BVR, as J20 is stealth.

Who can detect first Phalcon or SU30MKI.

If Phalcon detect J20 , how will it guide SAM or any other aircraft to shoot it down.
as it will be invisible to SAM or other aircraft radar... how it will guide the missile.

what would be the benefit of Anti radiation missile for this kind of mission.

How it will feed the details to shoot it down.

We have great researcher here can anyone give technical details and not flare up the Thread.

Please No Fighting just Imagination and your knowledge.

It depends upon which way you want to take it. If you are considering Phalcon AEWACS + Su-30 MKI = J20 than its just hypothetical but in reality its like impossible case . No country puts its Highest value asset alone against a combo . If ever there happens a war b/w india and China , rest assure that J-20 will be escorted by the potent aircrafts in PLAAF inventory with the best air to air missile they have coupled with AWACS , Now in that scenario if you want some un-biased analysis you have to know the exact detection range of both AWACS as well as their capabilities , since the capabilities of both AWACS are unknown where as the range of Phalcon might be stated somewhere on wikipedia but that of KJ-2000 is classified . So in this situation the analysis is next to impossible

But if we considered the detection range of both AWACS to be similar i.e x=y then the AWACS factor becomes negligible for both sides, now it will all come to the fighters, since the MKI is known to have highest RCS in its class of fighters so no one should have any doubt that it will be the first to get detected way before J-20 and if J-20 will be carrying good BVRMs then it can fire them well before even mki can sniff the presence of J-20 , in this case no matter how good the systems, avionics and sensors of mki are they will be of no use until and unless they can be used to jam incoming missile

 

[Mani2020]

Is it that unbelievable?

Growler Power: EA-18G boasts F-22 kill (PHOTOS) - The DEW Line


We know that IAF has some Russian, Indian and Israeli options to divert the MKI into an EW version as well and that imo is the key to detect a stealth fighter. Radar even of an AWACS aircraft will detect it way too less, but capable ESM/ECM capabilities, might detect other signals of the fighter from long distances.
Personally, I would give Rafale with SPECTRA and it's MICA IR / METEOR combo a better chance than MKI at the moment, but lets see what the upgrade will bring.

There are some exceptions sancho but you can't take them as a rule of thumb , if that would have been the case PAF with its F-6 in 1978 exercise shoot down USAF's then most potent fighter aircraft F-15 , has that made F-6 better than F-15? or will you with 100% confident put your all money on F-6 just because it has done once it can do it all again knowing that F-15 is a beast compared to F-6

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

its very unlikely for a mki to kill a j 20

 

[Dash]

There are some exceptions sancho but you can't take them as a rule of thumb , if that would have been the case PAF with its F-6 in 1978 exercise shoot down USAF's then most potent fighter aircraft F-15 , has that made F-6 better than F-15? or will you with 100% confident put your all money on F-6 just because it has done once it can do it all again knowing that F-15 is a beast compared to F-6

Dear Mani -

Sorry o intervane. But In a real war scenario....F-22 can be shot down, it may not be by a fighter, but there are other options available. Thats one thing.

Second thing is what Sancho said.

 

[Mani2020]

Dear Mani -

Sorry o intervane. But In a real war scenario....F-22 can be shot down, it may not be by a fighter, but there are other options available. Thats one thing.

Second thing is what Sancho said.

Dash , dude there is no one denying that F-22 or any other aircraft can't be shoot down , because everything that comes to fight has a probability to be shoot down no matter even its F-22 or even a 6th generation aircraft,
but there is a thin line b/w "can be" and "should be" and that thin lines decides the confidence you have in your machine , even mig-21 pilot may shoot down an F-22 by hook or crook but can you compare the confidence of both pilots before going to the war? also do you think that a mig-21 shooting down an F-22 can give an assurety signal to the rest of mig-21 pilots that they too can shoot down the F-22 with high probability, believe me they will be shaking and having chill in the back bone more in the cockpit then the opponent sitting in F-22.

 

[Laughing_soldier]

F-18 had a kill on F-22!

We need PAK FA weapons for MKI. That is most important.

 

[newdelhinsa]

You can kill anything flying with subsonic speeds.

 

[boris]

first let j-20 be combat ready,then this thread holds ground

 

[WAQAS119]

BILLI KO CHICHRON KY KHAWAB

 

[SQ8]

Any aircraft can be shot down by another contemporary given circumstances..
remember.. a Mach 2 fighter was bought down by a stricken Mystere a few years ago..
However.. technology ensures that the probability of that occurring is reduced to a very tiny number.
Many fans bring up the F-22 kill by an F-18 as an example. But forget that the scenario involved the growler breaking the rules.
Moreover, the F-22's last resort is to engage in WVR. The whole idea behind the F-22.. first and foremost is for its targets to never know what hit them.

That seems to be the driving force behind one of the concepts in use on the J-20.. and while it may or may not be as stealthy as the F-22.. if it can get close enough to attack its target without being detected... it has already won the battle.
As for the bogus claim of the Phalcon picking up the F-22 at 60 or 80km.. even with enough power.. It would need some seriously good algorithms to distinguish a ball bearing sized target from the rest of the noise.
Moreover.. if the Phalcon does pick up the F-22 at that range.. it is probably going down.

 

[DARKY]

A PAKFA Radar(Considered to be more powerful radar than any Fighter)can detect the following planes at following ranges(kms).
F22 30
F35 50
PAKFA 60
J20 90
EuroFighter 100
Mig29 140
Su30mki 200

A Question where did you get these data from......... or is it your plain Imagination ?
The PAK FA radar would probably have 2200+ T/R modules packed with top power ratings as high as 25-30 kW.
I am not being optimistic here but the gradual evaluation of Packing technology along with Russian expertise in cooling tech. would very well make this possible....... plus the L-band AESA mounted on the wings giving it an extra edge against the steath fighters...... I won't Quote any range figures for detection you can decide it for your self.

Even a phalcon will have to wait till the J-20 presents a large enough target for its sensor's to distinguish.
When that happens. It can direct fighters such the Su-30 to fire missiles at a linked target info.
Question is, unless the link is real time from the Missile, to the Su-30.. to the Phalcon.... shooting down an aircraft that is designed to supercruise will be a difficult prospect.
A better option is to position su-30 with AESA at two different threat points.. and use the phalcon to process any raw data or otherwise.. sort of like an airborne bi-static radar.

Well when we talk of 4th Gen. Fighters against 5th gen. ones what we forget to realize is that 4th gen. ones are Cheap and can be fielded in more numbers...... Its like Hunting an Buffalo by a Pack of Lions...... 4-7 Su 30 Data linked have a high possibility of detecting or tracking a couple of J-20 and if there exists an air combat between the two it would be more like this way..... The Passive sensors as well as the Upgraded AESA Radars both X&L-Bands would prove to be a lethal and valuable asset in this case.... not to forget the electronic warfare punch it would allow MKIs to have which I dare say could be on par with what the Growler fields....... Blinding the J-20 Radar and flanking them in the death trap...... however the Stealth guy can always run away but in a desperate scenario the upgraded MKIs stand a very good chance to bring down a J-20 considering the news floating about the possible assets being added on the super MKI variants.

I am not aware of whether AWACS can detect LO targets like J20. At what distance?? Isn't that possibility that before these phalcans can detect J20, it might have already fired missile on these AWACS... About IR seeker missiles its ok that it can target stealth FA, but whether J20 will allow SU30 MKI so near for leting its IR signature to Su and get targeted by IR seeker missile..Just a view point of mine.. Please correct me if am wrong..

With regards

Well the answer is the bolded parts for you A Phalcon AWACS fields a L-band AESA which is the best radar to detect a VLO airframe..... Yes the J-20 would see the AWACS 1st and shoot it down with a long range missile 3 out of 10 times...... depending on the numbers of missiles fired and the number of aircraft firing them..... hence fielding an AWACS in such a scenario could be disastrous..... about IR missiles yes if the J-20 decides to persist with the fight and and allows it to get into WVR zone...... the BVR would be very less effective thanks to the EW & ECM capabilities of the Upgraded MKIs.