Can Pakistan buy kashmir like it bought Gwadar?

[AugenBlick]

Why offer something they don't want? they would have opened the gates if they wanted the people or were concerned about the cruel IA and its atrocities and rapes and killings.

Gives rise to the question - how many millions of kashmiri's resided in the barren heights of Kargil that the brave PA ventured out to save? or how many millions of kashmiris were in Siachen mountains that the PA so desperately wants to save?

They just want the real estate - the people are just the pawns.

Remember the cricket match controversy and the kashmiri students who were offered seats in pakistani colleges by pakistan - they refused to go, so make sure the kashmiri's want to go to pakistan (which apparently they don't) before offering something which both of them don't want.

I know that .... but these hypocrites begin their argument with "Our kashmiri Brothers"..... If they are your bothers we will let you do a Yash chopra style slow motion reunion.
This offer is only to expose their fallacy.

 

[illusion8]

I know that .... but these hypocrites begin their argument with "Our kashmiri Brothers"..... If they are your bothers we will let you do a Yash chopra style slow motion reunion.
This offer is only to expose their fallacy.

The Mirpuri's and the Gilgiti's wouldn't be protesting if that was true...no?

 

[AugenBlick]

The Mirpuri's and the Gilgiti's wouldn't be protesting if that was true...no?

Don't care about the separatists and Pro-Pak Kashmiris ,even if hypothetically both these groups form 100% kashmir population. I only care about pro -India Kashmiris + our land on both sides of LOC.

 

[illusion8]

I know that .... but these hypocrites begin their argument with "Our kashmiri Brothers"..... If they are your bothers we will let you do a Yash chopra style slow motion reunion.
This offer is only to expose their fallacy.

Besides that fallacy exists both sides of the border - "some of our kashmir brothers" too think that the Pakistani's are actually concerned about them and not the land.

 

[KingMamba]

They don't want the people - they want the land.

The people do not want to leave their land it is India who wants the land but not the people.

 

[illusion8]

The people do not want to leave their land it is India who wants the land but not the people.

We want the people too - we don't want the people who are anti India though.

 

[KingMamba]

We want the people too - we don't want the people who are anti India though.

Which is most of them. Most want independence from both.

 

[illusion8]

Which is most of them. Most want independence from both.

Agreed, I think a study said 80% of them didn't want anything to do with Pakistan, as for us - yeah they hate us we hate back, one more partition is impossible, the best they can hope for is some more autonomy.

 

[sharjeel1992]

India's white GDP is 1.8 trillion dollars a year. That means that's how much Indians collectively make every year, including only the known overground economy. And that figure is rapidly increasing every year. Do you think we would permanently give away a state of ours, one which we have fought several wars to keep, spent so much blood and treasure to defend, for less than ten percent of our annual earning?

Think of it from another perspective. Would a family give away one room or part of their house for less than ten percent of their annual salary? Now if you add to it the fact that there are a lot of emotions and memories associated with it, and several of your ancestors have died for that house...you get the analogy.

First of all, if you are really serious about this discussion, than just take a map of your country scale the area and than make out portions. Kashmir will be even less than 10%. Second, its not the people who lost their lives it is mostly the militia. And why, are you forgetting that Indian militia was also loosing lives in fights with maosists and Tamil tigers not even in their . (another topic).
Third, in International politics emotions need to be controlled and kept aside. Don't forget if it was about emotions, Pakistan would never have been separated in the first place.

As for the 'for less than ten percent of our annual earning' rephrase it to less than 12% area for less than 10% earning. It is still priced higher than most countries.

But well again, we can;t price it but as per your opinion and many others. If a good price is offered there are always chances.

 

[KingMamba]

Agreed, I think a study said 80% of them didn't want anything to do with Pakistan, as for us - yeah they hate us we hate back, one more partition is impossible, the best they can hope for is some more autonomy.

Yeah only the valley largely wants to join Pakistan the rest don't really want. Pakistan side majority are happy with Pakistan which is why Pakistan would win any referendum based on numbers alone.

 

[illusion8]

Yeah only the valley largely wants to join Pakistan the rest don't really want. Pakistan side majority are happy with Pakistan which is why Pakistan would win any referendum based on numbers alone.

referendum would be lop sided now, many non Muslim Kashmiri's (pro India) have left the valley and still desire to go back.

 

[janon]

First of all, if you are really serious about this discussion, than just take a map of your country scale the area and than make out portions. Kashmir will be even less than 10%. Second, its not the people who lost their lives it is mostly the militia. And why, are you forgetting that Indian militia is also loosing lives in fights with maosists and Tamil tigers. (another topic).
Third, in International politics emotions need to be controlled and kept aside. Don't forget if it was about emotions, Pakistan would never have been separated in the first place.

As for the 'for less than ten percent of our annual earning' rephrase it to less than 12% area for less than 10% earning. It is still priced higher than most countries.

But well again, we can;t price it but as per your opinion and many others. If a good price is offered there are always chances.

Rethink it. India as a whole is worth several trillions, if not more. 1.8 trillion is what we earn PER YEAR, not the total value of all that we have. So why would we give away 12 percent of our land for 10 percent of our ANNUAL earning? If you were offering 10% of our total worth for 12% of our land, we could begin negotiations on that point. But for 10% of just our earnings per year? To go back to the comparison of a man selling his house, if somebody offers half the price of the house for half the area of the house, it's a good starting point. But if somebody offers him half his yearly salary for half his house, I doubt he would take it, since for most people their house costs much more than their yearly salary.

By militia I suppose you mean our armed forces and police forces. Yes, they have lost their lives, and for what? To protect and defend Kashmir. That shows how important it is for us, that so many men and women are ready to die for it. They were raised from the people for that reason alone, to protect our land. They too come from the people, they are not aliens defending our people. So if you want to buy it from us, you will have to quote a much higher price.

Yes we have lost many people to Tamil tigers and maoists, but wht has that got to do with anything? The fight with LTTE was not about Indian land at all. And the fight of maoists is not for any specific piece of land, but because they want to establish a communist dictatorship in this land. Neither of these examples has any relevance.

 

[illusion8]

But well again, we can;t price it but as per your opinion and many others. If a good price is offered there are always chances.

Interesting, I think a barter would be more feasible here.
Let's say Kashmir is vital for Pakistan's survival - and in a way it is, because of the water.
It's highly important for us not because it's our area but also because a lot of our soldiers have laid down their lives for it.


forget about paying money because you cannot afford it ever. Now what are you willing to offer in return as a barter for Kashmir that would interest India?

 

[sharjeel1992]

Yes we have lost many people to Tamil tigers and maoists, but wht has that got to do with anything? The fight with LTTE was not about Indian land at all. And the fight of maoists is not for any specific piece of land, but because they want to establish a communist dictatorship in this land. Neither of these examples has any relevance.

Exactly, you sent your forces to another country and they were killed. Right, one in which you fought and spend your blood. And for what reason? those who died who is going to look after their families (think emotionally here) no one. So, that can happen in kashmir too. How many indians live in kashmir? not many. So, who is the Indian army protecting and from whom?

Well, that is an undending discussion thought I would like to know your answer on what is the importance of Kashmir for India? it has so much land why Kashmir?

Interesting, I think a barter would be more feasible here.
Let's say Kashmir is vital for Pakistan's survival - and in a way it is, because of the water.
It's highly important for us not because it's our area but also because a lot of our soldiers have laid down their lives for it.


forget about paying money because you cannot afford it ever. Now what are you willing to offer in return as a barter for Kashmir that would interest India?

higher importance how? Your soliders laid there lives in Sri lanka, what did you get in return? There land? Why don't you name an object for barter?
And about money, well that is not your problem if we can afford it or not.

referendum would be lop sided now, many non Muslim Kashmiri's (pro India) have left the valley and still desire to go back.

So what do you propose?

Agreed, I think a study said 80% of them didn't want anything to do with Pakistan, as for us - yeah they hate us we hate back, one more partition is impossible, the best they can hope for is some more autonomy.

And who is going to make them autonomous?

We want the people too - we don't want the people who are anti India though.

Smells like you want the fruit but don;t want to sow the seed.

 

[janon]

Exactly, you sent your forces to another country and they were killed. Right, one in which you fought and spend your blood. And for what reason? those who died who is going to look after their families (think emotionally here) no one. So, that can happen in kashmir too. How many indians live in kashmir? not many. So, who is the Indian army protecting and from whom?

12 million, actually. Every single person living in Kashmir is an Indian. Barring any infiltrators.

If you want to have a proper discussion, you will have to understand the other party's POV. Indians believe that Kashmir is a part of India, and Kashmiris are Indians.

IA has been protecting Indian land for Indians from whoever has tried to take it away. PA, mujahids, lashkars, non state actors, whoever.