CPEC expansion plan in doldrums

[nahtanbob]

China is sticking to 2015 terms and conditions. It was limited in scope. To date, people do not know what the original deal was due to lack of transparency.

Why would something that is beneficial to the people of Pakistan not made transparent ?

@etylo

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

Why would something that is beneficial to the people of Pakistan not made transparent ?

@etylo

CPEC is a JV.

It needs to benefit both China and Pakistan.

 

[epebble]

China is sticking to 2015 terms and conditions. It was limited in scope. To date, people do not know what the original deal was due to lack of transparency.

Is the parliament happy with this? if not, the much desired 'democracy' seems to be a sham.

 

[nahtanbob]

CPEC is a JV.

It needs to benefit both China and Pakistan.

No one keeps beneficial economic programs secret

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

No one keeps beneficial economic programs secret

We have to keep it secret from India who is out there to sabotage CPEC.

 

[PakFactor]

@Abdul Rehman Majeed China trying to fool Pakistanis, time Pakistan brings in American friends and tell the Chinese what they are about to lose.

Americans will not invest either; instead, Pakistanis themselves will not invest.

I've said it before no one wants a dead horse. It pains me to say it, even as a Pakistani, but truth is often a bitter pill. So much drama has been done since last year, and this country has nothing to show; get ready to live in a lost decade.

 

[AZ1]

We have to keep it secret from India who is out there to sabotage CPEC.

Chacha Nawaz destroyed pakistan with Cpec deal. Zero growth export and capacity payment of plants now electricity unit is RS.48 including all sort of taxes.
Shame on you and those who support nawaz

 

[indushek]

CPEC expansion plan in doldrums​

China has not agreed to further expand cooperation in areas of energy, water management, climate change

---

Shahbaz RanaSeptember 26, 2023

PHOTO: REUTERS/FILE

---

ISLAMABAD:
China has not agreed to further expand cooperation in areas of energy, water management, and climate change under the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), underscoring the challenges that both the sides are facing in deepening the economic ties.

Moreover, Islamabad gave up its opposition to setting up a new imported coal-fired power plant in Gwadar and also agreed to a number of Chinese demands to address Beijing’s concerns, the signed minutes of the 11th Joint Cooperation Committee (JCC) of the CPEC showed.

Although, the JCC meeting was held in Oct 2022, its minutes were signed on July 31, highlighting the difference of opinions on both sides that led to almost a year’s delay in reaching a consensus.

The details showed that China did not agree to a host of measures that Pakistan had proposed in the areas of energy, water management, climate change and tourism in Giglit-Baltistan (G-B), Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa (K-P), Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK) and the coastal areas.

The final draft shared with Beijing by Pakistan and the final minutes signed by both the sides were different in many ways. The CPEC minutes had been signed on July 31 during the visit of the Chinese vice premier, Ahsan Iqbal, former planning minister in the PDM government, said.

The JCC is a strategic decision-making body of CPEC and its 11th meeting was held virtually on Oct 27, 2022 on the insistence of the PML-N led government that wanted to showcase some progress.

China excluded cooperation in the areas of cross-border tourism in G-B, K-P and AJK and cooperation for promotion of coastal tourism from the final minutes of the 11th JCC, the details showed.

China also did not agree to Pakistan’s proposal for inclusion of Water Resources Management and Climate Change and Urban Infrastructure Development in the CPEC framework. The proposal for setting up a new joint working group on water resources management and climate change was also rejected by China.

When contacted, the Ministry of Planning stated that it was a global practice for the minutes of meetings between two countries to be signed by both the sides only after due consultation and evolving consensus. This is to ensure that the minutes accurately reflect the agreements and understandings reached by both the parties, it added.

The planning ministry further said that the 11th JCC meeting minutes were signed in July 2023 after a thorough consultation process. Both the sides reviewed and discussed the minutes in detail to ensure that they comprehended all these outstanding issues and future goals, it added.

The details showed that China excluded the issue of financial challenges being faced by the power companies from the final minutes. The text related to the financial closing of 701 megawatts (MW) Azad Pattan hydropower project, 1,124MW Kohala power plant, and 1,320MW Thar Block 1 Shanghai Electric Co power plant was dropped from the final minutes.

The draft minutes had mentioned that “the projects have achieved 90% milestones for financial closing; however, financial closing is dependent on Sinosure clearance”.
Major concession on Gwadar plant

Pakistan has given significant concessions to China on the issue of setting up the 300MW Gwadar Power Plant.
Islamabad wanted to either shelve the 300MW project or change its location to Thar to use the local coal. But China did not agree to Pakistan’s text about the Gwadar plant, which had mentioned that “both sides recognised that there was a need to examine the requirement, size, location and fuel type for 300MW Gwadar Power Plant in view of escalating international coal prices, which were resulting in exceptionally high prices of electricity, liquidity and foreign exchange issues for Pakistan and environmental concerns”.

Pakistan had also wanted the conversion of the imported fuel-based Gwadar plant to Thar coal to address energy security and liquidity issues to which China did not agree.

The final minutes showed that “both sides agreed to advance the Gwadar Power Plant in accordance with the existing plan”.

Pakistan also committed that it would follow the consensus reached by two sides, and will direct the Pakistani power purchase companies to stop deducting the capacity power rate and return the deducted power rate.

To ensure the normal operations of CPEC power projects, the Pakistani side promised to take necessary measures to ensure timely exchange to US dollars for CPEC power projects to buy necessary fuels.

China also did not agree to a proposal to the inclusion of a 500kv transmission line from Hub to Gwadar to link the seaport city with the national grid in the CPEC framework.

Similarly, China did not agree to “carry out joint studies for future development of Thar coal blocks, including development of mega power parks and power evacuation infrastructure, with a view to meet Pakistan’s energy needs from indigenous resources, conversion of coal into other products for domestic demand as well as exports.
The reference that the JCC appreciated the decision on the conversion of imported coal-based IPPS to local Thar coal was also dropped.

China also did not agree to the proposal for inclusion of 100MW KIU and 80MW Phander hydel power projects in the CPEC energy cooperation list and implementation through Chinese investors. China did not agree to the proposal of developing a policy framework for coal gasification to fertiliser projects based on Thar coal.

Similarly, there is no mention of the South-North gas pipeline project in the final minutes. The draft minutes had mentioned examination of feasibility study and Chinese cooperation for the purpose.

Pakistan had proposed Chinese participation in a strategic underground gas storage project but there is no mention of this mega project in the final minutes.

Pakistan had also proposed participation of China in the national seismic study for sedimentary areas and sought Chinese equipment. But this idea is also shelved at the bilateral level.

Pakistan proposed joint exploration, development, and marketing of metallic minerals and sought Chinese technology, but the final minutes were silent on this issue too.

The planning ministry emphasised that signing of the minutes of the 11th JCC meeting was a testament to the strong relationship between Pakistan and China. It was also a reflection of the commitment by both sides to work together to achieve their common goals, it added.

CPEC expansion plan in doldrums | The Express Tribune

China has not agreed to further expand cooperation in areas of energy, water management, climate change

tribune.com.pk

Ok so all these differences pointed out in the above article, clearly points to below:

Chinese had a clear agreement signed, and the scope of their investments is also pretty limited and clear.
Pakistani Leaders fooled their public, by hyping up the cooperation.
Not only did they hype things up, they now want to link up local projects onto CPEC bandwagon.
Why will anyone agree to such change in scope of cooperation?

Further things will not be clear, until and unless a detailed report on the original agreement is published to the media and public in general. The Govt can still give out macro stuff, like scope of agreement even if the sensitive financial parts are kept hidden still.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

Ok so all these differences pointed out in the above article, clearly points to below:

Chinese had a clear agreement signed, and the scope of their investments is also pretty limited and clear.
Pakistani Leaders fooled their public, by hyping up the cooperation.
Not only did they hype things up, they now want to link up local projects onto CPEC bandwagon.
Why will anyone agree to such change in scope of cooperation?

Further things will not be clear, until and unless a detailed report on the original agreement is published to the media and public in general. The Govt can still give out macro stuff, like scope of agreement even if the sensitive financial parts are kept hidden still.

Promises are meant to be broken.

Agreements are meant to be violated.

 

[indushek]

Promises are meant to be broken.

Agreements are meant to be violated.

Only if both parties are ready for it, Majid bhai. Otherwise it will problematic, as it has in this case.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

Only if both parties are ready for it, Majid bhai. Otherwise it will problematic, as it has in this case.

You should remember this in life.

Before Lending - Lender is the Master

After Lending - Borrower is the Master

China will see the reason and come around to include additional projects in the CPEC.

 

[indushek]

You should remember this in life.

Before Lending - Lender is the Master

After Lending - Borrower is the Master

China will see the reason and come around to include additional projects in the CPEC.

Haha true, can't disagree. Let's see how this goes, we need to wait and see.

 

[Pakistan Ka Beta]

CPEC expansion plan in doldrums​

China has not agreed to further expand cooperation in areas of energy, water management, climate change

---

Shahbaz RanaSeptember 26, 2023

PHOTO: REUTERS/FILE

---

ISLAMABAD:
China has not agreed to further expand cooperation in areas of energy, water management, and climate change under the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), underscoring the challenges that both the sides are facing in deepening the economic ties.

Moreover, Islamabad gave up its opposition to setting up a new imported coal-fired power plant in Gwadar and also agreed to a number of Chinese demands to address Beijing’s concerns, the signed minutes of the 11th Joint Cooperation Committee (JCC) of the CPEC showed.

Although, the JCC meeting was held in Oct 2022, its minutes were signed on July 31, highlighting the difference of opinions on both sides that led to almost a year’s delay in reaching a consensus.

The details showed that China did not agree to a host of measures that Pakistan had proposed in the areas of energy, water management, climate change and tourism in Giglit-Baltistan (G-B), Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa (K-P), Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK) and the coastal areas.

The final draft shared with Beijing by Pakistan and the final minutes signed by both the sides were different in many ways. The CPEC minutes had been signed on July 31 during the visit of the Chinese vice premier, Ahsan Iqbal, former planning minister in the PDM government, said.

The JCC is a strategic decision-making body of CPEC and its 11th meeting was held virtually on Oct 27, 2022 on the insistence of the PML-N led government that wanted to showcase some progress.

China excluded cooperation in the areas of cross-border tourism in G-B, K-P and AJK and cooperation for promotion of coastal tourism from the final minutes of the 11th JCC, the details showed.

China also did not agree to Pakistan’s proposal for inclusion of Water Resources Management and Climate Change and Urban Infrastructure Development in the CPEC framework. The proposal for setting up a new joint working group on water resources management and climate change was also rejected by China.

When contacted, the Ministry of Planning stated that it was a global practice for the minutes of meetings between two countries to be signed by both the sides only after due consultation and evolving consensus. This is to ensure that the minutes accurately reflect the agreements and understandings reached by both the parties, it added.

The planning ministry further said that the 11th JCC meeting minutes were signed in July 2023 after a thorough consultation process. Both the sides reviewed and discussed the minutes in detail to ensure that they comprehended all these outstanding issues and future goals, it added.

The details showed that China excluded the issue of financial challenges being faced by the power companies from the final minutes. The text related to the financial closing of 701 megawatts (MW) Azad Pattan hydropower project, 1,124MW Kohala power plant, and 1,320MW Thar Block 1 Shanghai Electric Co power plant was dropped from the final minutes.

The draft minutes had mentioned that “the projects have achieved 90% milestones for financial closing; however, financial closing is dependent on Sinosure clearance”.
Major concession on Gwadar plant

Pakistan has given significant concessions to China on the issue of setting up the 300MW Gwadar Power Plant.
Islamabad wanted to either shelve the 300MW project or change its location to Thar to use the local coal. But China did not agree to Pakistan’s text about the Gwadar plant, which had mentioned that “both sides recognised that there was a need to examine the requirement, size, location and fuel type for 300MW Gwadar Power Plant in view of escalating international coal prices, which were resulting in exceptionally high prices of electricity, liquidity and foreign exchange issues for Pakistan and environmental concerns”.

Pakistan had also wanted the conversion of the imported fuel-based Gwadar plant to Thar coal to address energy security and liquidity issues to which China did not agree.

The final minutes showed that “both sides agreed to advance the Gwadar Power Plant in accordance with the existing plan”.

Pakistan also committed that it would follow the consensus reached by two sides, and will direct the Pakistani power purchase companies to stop deducting the capacity power rate and return the deducted power rate.

To ensure the normal operations of CPEC power projects, the Pakistani side promised to take necessary measures to ensure timely exchange to US dollars for CPEC power projects to buy necessary fuels.

China also did not agree to a proposal to the inclusion of a 500kv transmission line from Hub to Gwadar to link the seaport city with the national grid in the CPEC framework.

Similarly, China did not agree to “carry out joint studies for future development of Thar coal blocks, including development of mega power parks and power evacuation infrastructure, with a view to meet Pakistan’s energy needs from indigenous resources, conversion of coal into other products for domestic demand as well as exports.
The reference that the JCC appreciated the decision on the conversion of imported coal-based IPPS to local Thar coal was also dropped.

China also did not agree to the proposal for inclusion of 100MW KIU and 80MW Phander hydel power projects in the CPEC energy cooperation list and implementation through Chinese investors. China did not agree to the proposal of developing a policy framework for coal gasification to fertiliser projects based on Thar coal.

Similarly, there is no mention of the South-North gas pipeline project in the final minutes. The draft minutes had mentioned examination of feasibility study and Chinese cooperation for the purpose.

Pakistan had proposed Chinese participation in a strategic underground gas storage project but there is no mention of this mega project in the final minutes.

Pakistan had also proposed participation of China in the national seismic study for sedimentary areas and sought Chinese equipment. But this idea is also shelved at the bilateral level.

Pakistan proposed joint exploration, development, and marketing of metallic minerals and sought Chinese technology, but the final minutes were silent on this issue too.

The planning ministry emphasised that signing of the minutes of the 11th JCC meeting was a testament to the strong relationship between Pakistan and China. It was also a reflection of the commitment by both sides to work together to achieve their common goals, it added.

CPEC expansion plan in doldrums | The Express Tribune

China has not agreed to further expand cooperation in areas of energy, water management, climate change

tribune.com.pk

Even back in December 2022 some analysts starting casting doubts on the direction that CPEP was taking. However you still said that everything is ok. You definitely have some inside information that we do not. But everything that was mentioned int that vLog is now coming true.

You may want to check again with your source if everything is really ok with CPEC.

Watch this video to understand the topic.

Do not jump to premature conclusions.

okay -not a top priority

I wished they were a bit more flexible here but still they're not wrong

BAD - we desperately need hydro, coal energy
but they answered it down below



Bad, bad news!!
Maybe due to China's recent pro environment shift - idk
but its unfair as all the developed countries used cheap coal to grow their economies from 18th century onwards- why aren't we allowed to do the same?

We need to use our coal resources on our own than
cause I don't think they're interested in helping us develop thar coal power and we REALLY needed that

bad news

expected - tbh I am happy
I am not a fan of investing in gas infrastructure more than we already have throughout the decades
as itll further propel our reliance on LNG

ok

CPEC =/ Pakistan mining sector

We have to develop our mining sector on our own or through different countries or bilaterally with China not through CPEC

Why would Pakistan want more power plants ? Some Pakistanis on the forum are complaining that there is electricity surplus in the country now but the electricity bill is too high. As for the tourism, I think the Chinese side is concerned about the safety of large number of Chinese tourists to Pakistan in light of the recent terrorists attacks on Chinese and the turmoil of the country. Recently, China gov has issued a warning to its citizens to avoid travelling to Pakistan if not necessary becos of the violent unstable situation.

Those sleezy Indians are sure celebrating now, lol.

Common faujeet L

PTV WORLD & CGTN JOINT SHOW ON TENTH ANNIVERSARY OF BRI | 2023 .​

 

[ProudThamizhan]

Pakistan was warned several years ago about CPEC and how it will bankrupt Pakistan.
It is happening now.

 

[Dalit]

Pakistan was warned several years ago about CPEC and how it will bankrupt Pakistan.
It is happening now.

Do you want Kashmir back?